Anyone else deal with this

Iamenoughmary · February 23, 2023, 09:02:57 AM

I'm not sure where to put this, but I will put here. Its more than family, its friends too, but mostly family

I just wanted to hear if any of you go through it. I'm very sure you do... I have been there for my brothers since I was young. Being the oldest, I think I was like a second mom to them. If they were ill I called or texted. I have even drove them for surgeries, appointments, etc. We are all senior citizens now. In the last year I helped them get through some things by supporting and talking. They both have health issues.

When I do talk to them they never ask about me or my family, but talk about their exes or their children's problems. They talk about their health. I've listened patiently, but now I am FED UP! One is newly married again. He leaves it all up to her to contact. If I do talk to him he puts her on speaker phone. Uggg I hate speaker phone. I want to chat with him and not have her in the background talking too. She is extremely contolling. Most of my family agree. I'm not just being mean...

Hubby and I got covid and she texted, not one sentence from him. A text takes minutes, even if just to say thinking of you. When I think of the hours I sat on the phone or texted both brothers it really ticks me off. The other brother who I've listened to about 2 divorces and his crying and woes. Yet I sat caring about them both, well , he couldn't even text. If they had covid or I heard they even had minor stuff Id text.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND and I am angry, hurt, feel unloved and worthless. It seems to be a pattern with me, reach out show I care and recieve nothing ever. Is this me?? Do I care to much and need to stop

That friend I write about who refuses to text first knows we are sick. I told her in a text. Foolish me thinking it mattered. Not a word, a 'how are you doing'. It just is more than I can understand. I want to get heartless like they all are. Sadly that's not who I am. I believe I am weak and spineless to allow them to act this way. I will tend my wounds and tell me how to put these people out of my mind if its possible

I know you understand and venting releases some of this hurt. Thank you

bloomie · February 23, 2023, 10:03:17 AM

neverenoughmary - the short answer to your question is, yes. I have dealt with this. In sibling relationships and friendships.

In my own inner work I realized I have had a high tolerance for a lack of reciprocity in relationships. Because of the environment I was brought up in where I was trained to believe that it was love to over give and over perform in relationships. It was also in part a misunderstanding of what love, for myself and others, really looks like.

It is a relief to realize this response to there not being even a reasonable level of reciprocity in some of my close relationships, or any real discernible concern when things are hard or the ability to celebrate with me when things are good, is a sign that I am getting healthier. There is grief that comes with facing the inequities in the relationship. Again, for me anyway, another sign that I am getting healthier and am more clear on what I am looking for in close relationships.

I also have had to look at why I accepted so little in relationships. In a way, as an adult, I showed my family I would always reach out when they showed little interest for years. That I would jump in and do the heavy lifting when they had a hangnail. 🥳 I was over performing and didn't see that my siblings weren't interested in the same level of closeness and engagement that I was. I could let go of the hurt and accept that and look at my part in it. I had unrealistic expectations based on how 'close' I thought we were, how close I wanted us to be, and to be fair, I wasn't paying attention to their cues and adjusting my level of emotional and actual energy to be more in line with theirs. It was painful for me to realize that I needed to develop healthy, reasonable expectations, standards, for myself in relationship with others.

I know this doesn't take away the sting of going through and doing what I think of as a reset on these primary relationships, but I do believe that this is a good sign in the road for you and you will do good, healthy, growth producing things with these realizations.

So glad you shared!

lkdrymom · February 23, 2023, 10:31:47 AM

We have all been through this. We care more about others than they care about us. When you are younger you don't even notice it but as we age we start to see this more clearly. Sadly the only cure is to find people more like yourself who understand that there is a give and take, not just all take.

NarcKiddo · February 23, 2023, 10:42:05 AM

I understand how you feel.

I had a friend for years who was much older but she started as my dog sitter. I paid her well. She would go above and beyond to look after my dogs in terms of being reliable, available at short notice or whatever and I paid her appropriately so any time spent together after the passing of the dogs was not done by me out of any feeling I owed her. I did feel rather sorry for her, though, as she had health and marital issues. She would confide in me and I did a lot for her. Finally I realised it was totally one-sided. I had to make the calls and the visits. That was fine, generally, as if I visited her I could escape her endless chat at a time that suited me. It gets a bit harder if you have to eject someone from your house! But it was all about her, always.

I gradually pulled away - she never contacted me unless she needed my help with something, and to be fair she did not call on me with unreasonable demands. But the last straw was when I needed abdominal surgery. I told her the operation was coming up. She said she had it done some years ago and it was nothing. Well, fine, but I was still worried. I guess she meant to reassure me. But she never contacted me or my husband to find out how the surgery had gone.

Jolie40 · February 23, 2023, 01:38:26 PM

after a chaotic FOO year, I went NC with the lot of them
now both parents are gone, house was sold & 2 siblings who were still living with parents had to get apts
one moved out of state for job & I heard she was super lonely

so I started doing facetime with out-of-state sibling, once/wk or every other week
we've been FT for about a year

I'm ALWAYS the one to FT
I skipped a few wks just to see if sibling would FT with me.....nothing!

feel that I need to continue FT especially since learning she's seeing a therapist & on medication for depression
neverenoughmary, I get being the only one to reach out

my guess is since she's depressed, she doesn't have the energy to reach out to me

Jolie40 · February 23, 2023, 01:50:18 PM

also decided to resume contact with another sibling
I've done posts about this sibling who has traits that PD parent had including treating me as SG/blaming me

fortunately, I never gave out my cell phone no. so all contact is from my end
sibling is big on texts & I don't want daily contact through texts
I always do *67 so my number doesn't show

it's difficult & stressful talking with this sibling so I have to be in a good frame of mind for contact

neverenoughmary.....it's all SO tricky dealing with FOO!

Iamenoughmary · February 23, 2023, 02:11:21 PM

Thank you! All of your stories helps me. You are wise after having lived it too. I do think that what I have allowed lies right at my own feet. Nobody to blame but me!! I honestly don't need them. Perhaps if I'd had a sister...I just don't know? I just have this core belief that care and love and concern should be given back. I never had that so it's caused resentment.

No person should sit and wonder why people don't love us. That's a deep and open wound that truly cannot go away. It's work on 'me' time and why I allow it

I surely don't want conflict, so I keep quiet, except to that friend who I may as well stand in front of a brick wall and talk to, because she cannot absorb anything!!

My mom is in a NH now and our relationship is ok now and calm. It's because the burden is off me now. I can visit and take her things but I'm not responsible for her. It has been a rocky bumpy road all my life with her.

I still wonder why I dwell on these people.

I appreciate each story and will read them over again. There are good folks out there. You are the good ones

treesgrowslowly · February 24, 2023, 11:44:05 AM

Quote from: neverenoughmary on February 23, 2023, 02:11:21 PM
Thank you! All of your stories helps me. You are wise after having lived it too. I do think that what I have allowed lies right at my own feet. Nobody to blame but me!! I honestly don't need them. Perhaps if I'd had a sister...I just don't know? I just have this core belief that care and love and concern should be given back. I never had that so it's caused resentment.

No person should sit and wonder why people don't love us. That's a deep and open wound that truly cannot go away. It's work on 'me' time and why I allow it I surely don't want conflict, so I keep quiet, except to that friend who I may as well stand in front of a brick wall and talk to, because she cannot absorb anything!!

My mom is in a NH now and our relationship is ok now and calm. It's because the burden is off me now. I can visit and take her things but I'm not responsible for her. It has been a rocky bumpy road all my life with her.

I still wonder why I dwell on these people.

I appreciate each story and will read them over again. There are good folks out there. You are the good ones

You were the family caregiver. That is the short answer.

So was I.

I was the family caregiver. I've paid a huge price for this.

You were not just a sister - it sounds to me like you were put into a parenting role, giving your siblings things that should have come from their parents.

Yes it is fine to be an older sister and dote on younger siblings, but it is along a continuum. There's normal older sibling concern, and then there's being cast in the role of parent to your siblings. This only happens when the parents are not parenting their own children adequately.

I had this happen to me as well. Through therapy I learned that it is extremely common in dysfunctional families. One child will start to parent themselves - and their siblings. Maybe not all of the time, but enough that it messes with your dynamic with your siblings. Sounds like that is what might have happened to you.

Once we were parentified, it altered the way our siblings attached to us. There's been a lot now written about the parentified child and why it happens, and what it does to the sibling relationships - even well into adulthood.

Plus it tends to happen in a FOO full of FOG, and so until those siblings get Out of the FOG, they won't even understand why you were parentified in the first place. This leaves you alone in your understanding of the FOG that you grew up with. You did the best you knew how to do.

In a healthier family system, your caretaking would not have been exploited. People would not have felt so entitled to your care and concern for them. That is on them. There was nothing wrong with you being loving and caring towards others.

Of course you're hurt. These are miserable emotional experiences and I have been there too. I now know that being parentified really messed me up, and messed up my siblings relationship with me. Permanently.

I showed up for them over and over, just like you describe. Where were they when I was going through my ups and downs in life? No where to be found. I hear you. It hurts.

We all have a healthy innate need to feel cared about. No matter how old we are, we want people to feel concern for us. When our FOO can't show us that they care, it hurts. It especially hurts for the parentified child, who gave a lot.

In my case, I have to accept that I parented my parent's kids for them, and it cost me my relationships with my siblings. Not only did my parent's dysfunction cause me harm, it has meant living without those healthy sibling relationships that other people my age have with their sibs. I am so sorry you are in this same boat.

You're a very thoughtful person. Your posts are full of concern and insight and hope.

I'm so glad you're here. We care about you! I value your contributions to our community here!!

(I can't find the hugs emoji to add here)....

...insert hugs emoji here.

Trees

Iamenoughmary · February 26, 2023, 06:05:17 AM

treesgrowslowly, Thank you! Everything you say is so true! It's sad that you and I were put in the caregiver role. It surely did alter how our siblings attached to us. I often feel that not only is it my siblings but friends also. They seem to wait for me to contact or show caring. I then feel obligated and I know that comes from being put in the caretaker role.

It's really messed me up too. I'm sorry your sibling weren't there for you. Its just heartbreaking and I feel your pain. When I was younger I didn't give it much thought. Now that I'm older, I think of it a lot. I esp think of it since they've both had health issues and I was there for them

I know it will never change and it's true it was a situation created by our parents. My dad was ill all the time, mostly anxiety, and mental issues. Mom was young, only 17 when she married, and let me be the mom. It was easy to just let me do it, plus I loved my brothers. I so appreciate your input. You understand because you've gone through it. Being heard and understood means the world to me.

I am so sorry you dealt with it. You seem very much on the road to recovery by accepting what was and why it was. Still, its very hurtful and that doesn't go away. We just move on and know we are important too. I have lots of work to do on 'me' You have helped me so much. Thank you for your sweet and kind words. Have a blessed day

treesgrowslowly · February 28, 2023, 09:56:23 AM

Hi neverenoughmary,

Awe, I'm sending the hug right back at you!!

Your writing helps me just as much as hopefully my writing has helped you. You wrote about how you think about these things now as you get older, and siblings have health issues. I think this is part of what is going on for me as well. Getting older, I can see the different pieces of the puzzle of life, and which pieces are missing, and will always be missing (i.e. me and my siblings actually talking to one another in a healthy, helpful, supportive manner).

Reading your post helped me to feel 'seen'. Thank you.

Even though I understand the dynamics of the dysfunctional FOO quite well, it is only one part of being able to heal. As you know. Understanding something cognitively doesn't mean that our heart moves on and simply 'stops' needing that relational stuff with others. Healing a broken heart takes time. As I am trying to do so myself. It's been years of learning about PD's and toxic FOO. My heart wants to heal. I hope some day that it does.

FOO relationships give us a place to belong. When we are someone's daughter or sister or cousin, we have a place to belong. We needed that while we were growing. And we still need it, to some extent even as we get older.

A healthy adult sibling relationship requires that both people show concern for one another. When one sib was parentified early on, it can be so hard to really get through to the sibling who was taken care of by that older sibling. From what I've seen, that younger sibling doesn't want to 'update' their own understanding of the relationship.

They would rather sit in their FOG, rather than come to an adult understanding of how and why their older sibling was their substitute parent when they were small. Even if that understanding could bring about a healthy relationship for the 2 of them as adults. It is very sad.

I think that as we get older, those of us who were parentified, can see how orphaned we are, because our siblings, even well into their older adult years, still don't see what happened to us.

Rather than see us as their siblings, they are locked into a view of us that is like the way kids look at their parents. Kids don't see their parents needs. They can't. Teens don't think about their parents needs nearly as much as they think about their own needs. A lot of us have siblings who are probably 40, 50, 60 years old, and still just want us to parent them. They don't want to see that we have needs too. All of that stems from being parentified, early in life.

In my opinion, the sibs that were taken care of by the parentified child, are not willing to examine their FOG. They don't want to look at the parents with more honest assessment.

Whereas the parentified child has a lot of data on how PD her parents were / are, the younger siblings grew up in a completely different context.

If you had had an older sibling take care of you - the way you took care of your siblings, how would your childhood had been different?

I've read a bit about this recently. The parentified child has suffered from so much neglect that we are unable to live in the fantasy FOG that our parents are 'fine'. But our sibs - who were taken care of by us - tend to have a much harder time getting out of denial.

Our siblings likely have no clue what we've been through. Their childhood was not like ours was. We are the ones who made sure some of their needs were met. If they went into good therapy, they would be encouraged to consider this.

But a lot of those sibs do not go into therapy. I think the parentified child lands herself in therapy way more often than the siblings do. She is motivated to find answers because of the way that being parentified has affected her into adulthood. And you and I both know that we can't make our siblings see anything they don't want to see. For us, therapy involves learning who we are, outside of that parentified child role. I'm right there with you on this journey of discovery.

Hugs to you.

Trees

Iamenoughmary · March 01, 2023, 10:13:51 AM

trees, Thank you . You make it all so clear. So true, our family gives us a place to belong, and it should be both ways. It gets draining being the caretaker. I'm not doing it. I will still love them, but not wear myself out again. I do see that they won't ever show caring ways. Maybe accepting it heals us. I wish there were a switch to shut off my mind..lol! That would be so great!

We do really see how orphaned we are. I think we were just taken for granted. I guess they felt we were obligated. I still feel that. I'm just not sure where their minds are. Lifes busy and difficult but a simple text means so much

True also they don't want to examine their FOG. Yes we took care of them and I guess they don't have a clue as you said. I know I want this new year to be better. I can care but not give so much of myself that I lose who I am and what I may need. I hope you take care of 'you' and stay happy. You've helped so much and it's great to chat.

Here's to a brighter and happier 2023.