Fear of regression

[walking on broken glass]

Hello everybody,
It's my first message here.
I have an older sister who has BPD and I am her main target. Over the years she has bullied me, spied on me, guilttripped me for not 'loving her as much as she loves me', sworn at me and verbally abused me, while our parents have always been supportive of her. They are blind to her issues. It took me a while to seek therapy and understand what was going on. I had a period of no contact with her, even though we lived in the same city, and after that it's been lukewarm contact, once every 3 months or so. My parents are in touch with her everyday so I have the reassurance that she is doing ok. Of course they keep bugging me about getting in touch with her more often but even that contact can be too much for me. We are both in our forties and she lives in a different country.

Our relationship is characterized by, let's say, a fragile stability, and the geographical distance has helped enormously. Recently, I got a new job, which is a big trigger for her because she is very competitive with me. Ever since she found out she has been messaging me 'to talk about my new job', she has researched my colleagues online and told me about it, and, generally, she has been fixating. Today I got horrible flashbacks because she messaged me on whatsapp insisting to talk 'about my new job', while I was at work. She asked to 'go online so we could talk'. I panicked but did not respond (I plan to answer later in the evening) but I fear another explosion is coming up ('you don't want to talk to me, you are avoiding me etc.'). I am surprised because she has never demanded to talk in the past few years, she was somewhat reconciled with the frequency I had set, so this was some sort of regression and it scared me. I suspect she found out online that my job is part-time (I hadn't shared that) and she thinks she has this big hold over me because "I am lying". I had avoided confrontation for a while and the prospect terrifies me. Thinking with reason, I know I shouldn't be afraid of her and I know I should set my boundaries and ask her to respect them, but mentally all this is hard for me to process. I worry I will wake up in the morning and find a horrible message from her. I haven't even talked to her (and after all this I am not going to) and she has managed to distract me all day today.

[moglow]

Hello and welcome to Out of the FOG! I think you'll find a lot of kindred souls here, and a wide variety of PD relationships, plenty of space to talk things through so it's not just tamped down in your head where you can't escape it.
I'll just start here -

Thinking with reason, I know I shouldn't be afraid of her and I know I should set my boundaries and ask her to respect them, but mentally all this is hard for me to process. I worry I will wake up in the morning and find a horrible message from her.

Start with that fear - be honest, what can she do? Yell? Sneer? Belittle your efforts? She can assume and attempt harassment and accuse, etc, but at the end of the day you still have a new job. She's not a part of it, thus her investigations and assumptions. Well ... that's not her stuff in the first place and you don't owe ANY explanation. You're not on planet E to appease and explain yourself to her or anyone else - it's YOUR life you're living, not hers. However that may gall her, it is what it is. All her presumption and intimidation means nothing in the big picture because it's STILL not her business. She insists on talking? At whatever point you choose, let her talk if you want. You still don't have to share anything, you can simply be an outlet. Or not. Your choice.

That doesn't mean you're hiding or lying or running or anything else [her feelings, impressions, suppositions etc are hers, not yours]. What is there to discuss with her? YAY YOU for the new job, other than that none of her pronouncements mean diddly squat. And your boundaries? They're YOURS, yours to set and yours to enforce in whatever way you feel best. Maybe you choose to simply not concern herself with your personal business - so you don't share it. You don't explain it. You don't justify or defend yourself to her. She doesn't have to like or agree or respect any of it - YOU do.

Her attempting to steam-roller and bully you "into submission" means nothing in the big picture. You choosing to share whatever part of your life you want with her, is what matters. And seriously, she's in 40s and talks to parents every day? Sounds like she needs propping up, and good luck to her. Still Not.Your.Stuff. You may want to consider putting them all on an information need-to-know diet. It sounds good on paper but really, why is anyone that entrenched in your personal business, to make judgments and demand explanations.

Anyhoo, this is me saying hello and being your champion. Don't let the bullies in the world get you down. Take a big ole cleansing breath and understand they can't hurt you if you refuse to let them.

[moglow]

Not at all meaning to push aside what you've experienced, btw. I hope you see you're not alone and you dont have to roll over for the way she treats you just because you did in the past.

You can (and might want to seriously consider) dig in your heels and just say No thank you. I'm loving what I do, thank you, happy in all my work. Practice: okay thank you fir your thoughts. I hadn't thought of that (and to yourself "and I won't now either... "). Refuse to give her ammunition and she has much less chance of hurting you.

[moglow]

Not at all meaning to push aside what you've experienced, btw. I hope you see you're not alone and you dont have to roll over for the way she treats you just because you did in the past.

You can (and might want to seriously consider) dig in your heels and just say No thank you. I'm loving what I do, thank you, happy in all my work. Practice: okay thank you for your thoughts. I hadn't thought of that (and to yourself "and I won't now either... "). Refuse to JADE: Justify argue defend or explain. You're adults - none of that is necessary to a happy balanced life.

Refuse to give her ammunition and she has much less chance of hurting you.

[Srcyu]

It sounds as though she doesn't have much going on in her own life.
Being the elder sister, she has been used to bossing you around. She is manipulative too.

She probably wants to spoil/ruin the new job for you and in her own sweet way she is already doing that.

You are so much more mature than her. You would never behave the way she does.  You are the fortunate one with an interesting life.

The boundaries are already making themselves apparent to you - respond when you are good and ready. If you don't like how the conversation with her is going, end it. Stick firmly to only answering calls at a particular time of day and she will slowly learn to adhere to that. Limit how long the calls can last. If she abuses you - end it.


milly

[walking on broken glass]

Thank you both, moglow and milly!
I needed to hear that. Not that I don't know that I am adult and I can choose to interact with her (or not interact) any way I want but I tend to forget that. She has that effect on me, making me feel like a helpless teenager again.

I don't share any details of my personal life with her, but she gets some from my parents and then obsesses. My parents are 100% enabling her, have been for many years now. I have often wondered what our relationship would be like if they were not alive: non existent? She talks with my mum every single day, and sometimes with my cousin, as she has no other friends to talk to. My parents want me to take up their role of passive listener, sympathizer and enabler, and because I refuse to do it, I have been labelled as the black sheep.

[moglow]

It's damned hard to break the patterns and habits of a lifetime! That's when those baby steps make a difference, slow but steady so we can truly find our peace.

I'm curious, what if you were to limit what/how often you shared with parents as well? I mean, if you feel they're the conduit to your sister, maybe they're not as supportive as you'd like either. However enmeshed she is with them/they with her, you each have separate relationships.

Your life isnt theirs/others and vice versa. I wouldn't want to go through it tippy toeing whether or not to share this or that. If its going to come back and bite me, i'd be hesitant to share at all. Nor would I care to even have a "please didn't share this with sis" discussion over and over. "Oh we forgot" or "we didn't seem the harm" or even "well she's your sister, why wouldn't we tell her??" are all well and good when she's hounding you yet again over things that are frankly none of her business in the first place. They can pacify her all they want, it shouldn't be at your expense.

More than anything I hope you can establish and hold tight to your boundaries. Consider blocking or at least limiting her access to you if you haven't already - texts can be incredibly invasive when you're in the middle of your work day. Maybe shut off notifications and check when you're actually available to talk. You don't *have* to respond to them anytime. Do not disturb has been a Godsend for me! I don't explain or justify it - it just IS. The peace is well worth it.

[walking on broken glass]

I have certainly cut down on information I pass on to my parents as well, knowing well that they will transfer it to my sister. As you said, there is no point in having a discussion with them about not sharing. I have caught them sending her pictures from my facebook profile (she is not on facebook) which is really disturbing. So now I only give them access to public info on my profile.

The job was sort of a big thing and I wanted to tell them, because I had been unemployed for a while and they were stressing me about 'my job prospects'. It was a way of saying 'get off my back', although I realize I didn't have to find a job to do that!

It's very hard to put boundaries when you are the odd one out in an enmeshed family situation. I have muted her messages and only check from time to time to see if she messaged.

[NarcKiddo]

It is indeed very tough. My main problem is my mother but my father and sister almost certainly have some level of PD also, and the enmeshment is horrendous. As such I tell my sister nothing that I really don't want my mother to find out. Sometimes I might say "don't tell mother, but..." just to see if it goes back. Now, my family is very good at remembering lies and who said what, and I know if it does go back to my mother, my sister will have prefaced it with "don't tell NarcKiddo I told you this, but...". Slip ups are rare and very well veiled. But it is easier for siblings to openly suggest parents not be told something. Much harder to suggest parents not share things as they tend to ignore such requests.

Congratulations on the job, and I agree that it made sense to tell your parents even in the knowledge that this might result in issues with your sister.

It sounds like you need to work on your emotional reactions. Logically you know all about boundaries etc but as you say, it is really hard not to feel that knot of worry when another message comes through, or you fear one might come through. If I get reactions like that, my therapist encourages me to think about where these reactions are coming from. Once you understand the root of the reaction it is easier to find a way to deal with it. Is adult you really scared about a message from your sister? Or does it trigger reactions from further back? Might your sister have threatened to tell on you to your parents when you were a child? Might you have been scared they would punish you, even if your sister was lying? Might they actually have punished you? I don't know if that is the case, obviously, but once you know the cause you can then compare and contrast your current situation to defuse the fear. In my example, you could tell yourself "OK, child me was scared, and with good reason. Child me learned that I had to pacify my sister in order to protect myself. But that was then. Adult me does not need to fear retribution from parents or from sister. Even if sister goes to parents saying 'nah nah nah, Walking was lying, the job is only part-time' - well, so what? Who cares? Who is going to punish me? How could they even do that?" And then rational adult you can start to reassure scared child you that adult you is in control of the situation. Child you does not need to be concerned with any of this.

Hugs. And remember that boundaries are yours, not theirs. You decide what the boundary is and you enforce it. You don't necessarily even have to tell them what the boundary is, if that conversation is too difficult or will cause arguments. Your sister can message all she likes. You read the message when you want to (or don't). You reply when you want to (or don't). If your parents ask you to speak to her more and you don't want to say "no" outright, you can prevaricate without making promises. "Yes, yes, but I obviously can't respond when I'm at work. Yes, yes, it's on my list of things to do. Yes, yes. You're right. Yes, yes."

[moglow]

Getting a job after being unemployed for a while IS a big thing, and to be celebrated! It's on your sister that she's decided to twist it - and to research your new colleagues?? Who DOES that? Be glad for me that I've found something I like and move past it already. We don't need to nitpick and discuss it - I'm working, earning my keep and living my life. Part time isn't enough? Okay, it's a step in the right direction YAY! How about this crazy weather huh? And when she brings it up again, change the subject, tell her flat out you don't feel a need to talk about it. Maybe tell a funny story you heard on the radio - no venting, complaining, grousing about anything or anyone that might feed her negativity.

I tried to adopt a be positive or be gone attitude with my mother, and actually it kinda worked. All she did was gripe groan bitch and complain, about any and everything. "I need to VENT!" was a favorite phrase, never acknowledging that all she did was vent and spew venom. So I kept digging and found the funny, shared silly or positive, ignored her ugly stuff. Since the bad was all she wanted to talk about, eventually she shut down. Phone calls now are brief and relatively painless. She's truly not that interested in anything positive about me or anything else.

[walking on broken glass]

Thank you, NarcKiddo! That's very helpful advice. It's good to remember I have a say in this and I am not powerless. When my parents insist I talk to my sis, I normally make non-committal sounds or go, as you said, oh yes, I will talk to her. There is no point in starting an argument as they will not listen to my point of view.

I like the positive attitude idea, moglow! As you say, it is very hard to find something positive to discuss. I notice that with my sis: when I talk to her, she is basically venting about everyone and everything on earth. It is so tiring, she really has nothing positive to say about her life. I wonder how I could manage to twist that. She is like a rubbish truck that unloads everything on me. As I don't want to share anything personal, I end up just listening to her complaining for at least an hour over the phone, about her useless colleagues, her useless manager, the 'office slut' (she is full of internalized misogyny), random people... It is exhausting! That's another reason why I don't like talking to her: even when she is not mean or offensive to mean, she has nothing interesting or even mildly positive to say!

[Kaz1956]

I have three PD siblings and despite being virtually NC with them for years, they even now will see any form of contact as an opportunity for abuse. I had to have contact with one over an issue with my uNPDM but found it so toxic and stressful I had to pass the matter onto someone else. Any form of contact is just not safe and believe me I have worked very hard to come Out of the FOG of narcissistic abuse.
My point here is that you have gone VLC for a very good reason and you don't have to surrender what is really your main form of protection because your PD sis is insistent that you do.
You have two choices, one to give in and one not to. One, you do respond, she upsets you (inevitable), you then get to spend whatever amount of time processing that and trying to recover your peace of mind. Two, you tell her politely that you are focussing your energies on work and prefer not to start any discussions about your job thanks anyway. In this scenario, you have put down a healthy boundary, keep your peace of mind and let PDsis manage her own reactions. If it gets toxic, block her and move on.
Best of luck with your now job !

[walking on broken glass]

I am really sorry you went through that with 3 siblings, @Kaz1956! That must have been tough. One is enough to drive you crazy!

You are right that VLC is a form of protection. My parents think that it would be good for her if I talked to her every week, just to touch base, because she has no friends and no social life. The only people she talks to is family: my parents (she talks to them every day) and occasionally my aunt and cousins. They have been pressuring me to talk to her ever since I was a teenager, when she studied abroad and I *had* to call her every weekend and talk to her for hours. I did not realize how much I resented this until we stayed in the same city and the pressure was unmanageable. Thankfully she is far away now, in a different time zone as well, which makes things easier.

I still feel a bit guilty about not talking to her because I know she is lonely (but whose fault is that?). When we have a call and it goes ok, I think 'it wasn't so bad this time, perhaps I could talk to her more often'. But then why does the bar have to be so low? Why is a phone call that has simply met the basic standards of a human interaction of not being abusive or insulting a good phone call? Why should I have to sit and listen to stories about her horrible boss, her awful colleagues etc. (some of them obviously made up)? And it's not like you can keep the conversation short because she keeps talking non-stop and every time I suggest we hang up she brings up a new subject. So instead of practising being more firm with her and hanging up early, I prefer to call her less often. It is tiring to always to have to assert yourself.

A couple of months ago, she decided to look for one of my articles, which she proceeded to read and then forward it to me with comments and questions! Needless to say, her studies and her subject are VERY different from mine (I am in the humanities, she does science) but even if they weren't, this is still inappropriate. I gave some vague answers to a couple of questions to get her off my back but I wonder whether I should have confronted her. I tend not to engage in conflict with her because it is pointless, as I will be the one ending up more annoyed. Is my passivity making her worse somehow though? Or she wants me to engage in conflict and I am doing the right thing by ignoring her?