I think she needs more but what? and what to do?

[moglow]

I spoke with GC brother, asked how to at least get housekeeper in there to start improving things for her. His comments: She's actually mentioned it but she'd have to be removed from the house so they can get anything done. "She meddles," constant interruptions and sees anyone in the house as "company" and entertainment, not there to do a job.

Apparently he's scheduled a variety of work over the years on her behalf - she's butted in and dragged them off to other things she thinks need doing until ultimately nothing got done. He's asked her for list of what she wants or feels need to be done - still no list. She just wants to talk about it. Her need to be the center of attention drives everything [and it's worse when there are men involved]. Plus she's "afraid they/houskeepers would talk about her." Who CARES if they talk - they're being paid to do a job, period. They know what needs to be done and how to do it, would just need her to move aside and let them go to it.

Once again, appearances are everything and reality be damned. All while she's shut herself off and won't let anyone in that house because she's embarrassed. But somebody is supposed to fix this for her. Yeah. That. All that said, it was a rather validating conversation.

And - I'm digging back through WomanInterrupted posts today, how she navigated it with her PD parents from a distance and somehow maintained her sense of humor and heartfelt kindness through it all. It reminds me yet again how much it helps all of us, not traveling these roads alone.

[Srcyu]

I read her posts too at times. WomanInterrupted has left quite a legacy.



milly

[bloomie]

Oh my goodness, yes! I sure do appreciate the love and support WI offered us all. I miss her!

Moglow - we have a similar situation with H's mother as you describe with md. We are much further down the road at this point and when things got very hard it was both mil and fil we were wrangling with. Those relationships are HARD and fractured to a great extent, but that didn't stop them from treating us as their on call source for all things.

It may sound heartless, but we had to wait it out a bit until they both had had very serious incidents requiring extensive medical intervention before we could begin to get a team in place to care for their needs that they wouldn't let go after a couple of weeks or months. They fought it every step of the way insisting they could "go it alone" how is it going it alone when your son and dil are rushing to your home several times a week because someone has... fallen and cannot get up. (I wish I was joking, but it was a nightmare)

Your mom may have to get worse before you and your sibs can put a team in place to care for the home and her needs. And even then, there are no guarantees she will cooperate until she truly is unable to fight it.

Just my mil is still living at this point and we handle as much as possible through a team and the really beautiful facility we moved her into kicking and screaming that she now claims was her idea as she didn't want to be a 'burden'.  Are you kidding me? Being a burden is her favorite. 

My DH still manages a lot for her and has full responsibility for her well being. It is a tough gig I am not going to sugar coat it. Example, today he has had 5 phone calls about financial details she cannot remember from week to week and that she no longer even has responsibility for. Her memory is shot and she lives in a bubble of self interest and grandiosity. Appearances are her life's blood. All that matters. She may be one of the most ungrateful humans I have ever met and that says a lot as I have a 14 year old grandchild. (grandchild will mature beyond self centeredness, mil apparently will only regress further into it)

My suggestion is to go slow and let GC be the first line of defense if he is willing when the time comes. Whatever you end up deciding md needs, I can only say that most likely whatever you all do for her, even using neutral 3rd parties as much as possible, it has a huge emotional cost to it. Know that going in and weigh the cost. We are going on... wow, I just realized we are going on 14 years of the journey. And I am truly exhausted and I don't know how my DH does it as we have a fairly regular schedule of phantom urgent medical issues needing ER visits and many, many tests that usually coincide with a vacation we are heading out on, my bday, or when we have a special event planned. 

This one will kick up mamma drama any way she possibly can. 

Wishing you much wisdom as you think this through. It's a lot to process and very layered on an emotional level I have found.

[lkdrymom]

As you said before, you have already been down this road with her before and it didn't end well when you tried to help.  Do you really need a refresher course on that?  Be supportive of your brother but also be oblivious to her hints that he might share with you.

[Poison Ivy]

Anyone with a family member who might need help at some point should have a plan for how to respond if an emergency occurs. If the family member or the family  member's neighbors or friends or other relatives have your phone number, you might be contacted. I'm not suggesting that you'll have to help at that point, but it's good to be prepared with a response. If you get along well with the family member, you'll probably say, "I'm leaving now for the hospital" (or wherever). If you don't get along with the family member, you might need to practice saying, "Thank you for letting me know. Good-bye."

[WearyLittleBird]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I just experienced the same thing with my mother for the past 5 years, only my NM lived close to me/I was the sibling dealing with her.

A few things that helped me:
Establish communication rules. You don't need to tell them to her. As an example, my NM loved to complain that she can't drive. I first would try to change subject. If that didn't work, I would remind her that we are not talking about it anymore, and she knows her options. When she pushed me more (she wanted me to tell her the doctor was wrong and she should drive), I politely would say, "if you continue to talk about this, I am leaving". You could also just leave without saying saying why. She finally got the hint for the subject of driving.

Another thing that helped me was to ask myself around her complaining, is this reasonable to be upset over?  Is she/I making a good choice? Is this something I can help with realistically? In the driving example, there was nothing she can do to drive again. While I expressed empathy, it would be a poor choice for her to drive. It was also a poor choice for me to listen to her over and over again when there was nothing I can do to change her situation.

My mother ended up dying alone in her hoarded apartment. There was nothing any of us could do. If it makes you feel better, you could contact an elder attorney. Your mother is legally entitled to make her own poor choices. This helped me with the guilt around her self-imposed living situation. It also helped when family members called me and were shocked why I hadn't done anything to help her. An attorney can advise you what to do when she is ready and actually needs help.

Hugs.

[Jolie40]

it does sound like she needs to be in an assisted living facility

both my parents did not want to leave their house and said so
I told sibling-in-charge they needed to go to assisted living
he hired some help instead

however, something happened & one got sent to hospital/hosp. then sent them to nursing home
just a few short months later, other parent fell, needed surgery, sent to rehab, couldn't be helped, & stayed in the facility

sibling-in-charge then sold their home which helped pay for their care

my in-laws realized on their own that they couldn't take care of house anymore
so SIL moved them to her state into a senior citizens apt
same thing happened to father-in-law....went to hosp & they sent him to nursing home section of place
MIL is still in the apt but now uses a walker to go for meals @ the place

[moglow]

Update - gc took her to appt last week, at her request. Her last in person visit was October, she walked in using a cane. This one she was in wheelchair. Topic of conversation was her pain meds, and doctor was clear that he didn't recommend knee surgery in her case. I suppose overall health, lack of mobility, pain tolerance and her age are saying no.

I shared this info with older brother, who had knee surgery a few years ago. He kind of brushed it off as no big deal, but he's 20 years younger, takes care of himself and in amazing shape overall. He brought up someone we know just had surgery, near 80yrs old - she is also fairly active and takes pretty good care of herself. Mother has and does not, very different scenario.

I got a msg from gc a while ago - big brother text earlier and is supposedly seeing mother today. 😳 Far as I know he hasn't seen or spoken with her in quite a few years now. He had offered to help her with her pain, but she refused, said she was afraid of what he'd do to her. (???!) So he'll see what's going on and be able to make some suggestions for her. I'm sure she'll be all emotional and Lord alone knows whatt she'll say, but he's seen and heard her in action. He's not likely to be suckered in other than genuine compassion for someone in pain.

One on one, no witnesses? Let the triangulation begin!

[bloomie]

Moglow - have you had any update from your brother after his visit? Going from cane to wheelchair in 6ish months is a big mobility change that has to have impacted daily care and routines.

Sending strength and wisdom in the coming days.

[moglow]

Funny you should ask, Bloomie - he's not said one word, not even that he went to her house! He gets HUGE points for that tbh, no "you shoulds" "you ought to" or "you need to... for mother." He saw up close and personal what contact with her did to me, referred to me as having similar to battered wife syndrome where I thought I had no choice but to go back into it knowing what it would do to me. He's also seen the change since I cut it all down to bare minimum.

Now he's seen her realities and will have a better idea what may need to be done for her. I think he may have provided her with some helpful tricks up his sleeve, and at least give some input on possibilities. She's not known for hanging with any recommended treatment, she's more of a one and done kind of person, crying "It didn't work!!" before giving things a chance. She's kind of a take a pill and keep on taking the pill person, not one to put forth effort. Plus, she can only be "good" for so long and he's not one to put up with a lot of garbage from her or anyone else.

Interestingly enough, GC was poo-poohing the whole idea of the visit and talking smack about why older was visiting. Like he's micromanaging her world as he did when youngest visited us last year. He seemed to think it was wrong "after all these years," without considering she instigated and maintained that distance herself, was never interested in actual relationships with any of us. It's like GC thinks he has to protect her from herself and tell all of us how to "manage" her? No. She can either be herself and learn to play nice or not, but that's no help that I can see. Maybe if people hadn't protected her for so long, she'd have learned to not treat people the way she does. There's more to it I'm sure but that's not my stuff. FINALLY! I see it's not mine. 

[moglow]

Update #2: sounds like todays visit imploded and didn't end well. She lost her mind and insisted to know where it all went wrong between her and big brother [can't possibly be the way she treats people can it] - he refused to have that conversation. He told her again all he wants/needs is for her to make it right with her and mo/me, and with youngest brother.

Bro specifically brought up her abuse of me, which she tried to gloss over and excuse. Before it's over they got to see md in full monster mode, ended with her telling him to get the hell out of her house. (I'm hoping for more details tomorrow)

Within the hour I got a text from md that "apparently things happened" between me and her a long time ago that she does not remember. She owes me "such a huge apology"... and will always love me. But... Things happened? Ugly horrific painful degrading things *that she did*. They didn't "happen."/How do you apologize for something you supposedly don't remember?

What. The actual. Fuck. Right now, just glad it's the wknd. I can drink and gummie and hopefully at some point sleep this off. Yeah. It's kind of a lot.

What are your thoughts, friends?

[moglow]

My brother is officially my hero. All he asked is that she make things right with me. She can't and won't and I'm not interested but I'm humbled that he demanded it of her.

And I got that fauxpology from her.

[bloomie]

Oh, Moglow! What a vipers nest of a situation your brother stepped into. Wow! I imagine the impact of this on you has to be fierce!!!

"apparently things happened" between me and her a long time ago that she does not remember. She owes me "such a huge apology"... and will always love me.

THINGS! NO! Not things! She owes you a huge apology??? Strange how that has somehow never happened!!! How about true amends that recognizes and names the actual behaviors that harmed you? How about a bit of genuine contrition? How about a big ole piece of humble pie for a change? How about taking the opportunity in the final season of your mother's life and finish better by offering some kind of truly genuine concern for, and approval of, you and your sibs? This just makes me sick on your behalf.

I learned a term for this kind of invalidation a bit ago that identifies this as 'casual abuse', which is defined as making casual, or completely ignoring, pretending not to remember 'things' that meant everything to you and to me. Treating what a child held as precious or important, or later an adult child, as if it means nothing or doesn't exits. It is like a pd manipulation salad with a bit of everything thrown in that is served up to us in such a way to once again side step responsibility and accountability for the abuse our parents inflicted upon us. And it is tricky and easy to get stuck in the outrage and self doubts this can bring if we are not at a steady, healed place I have found.

All of this triangulated through your brother who has the strength and fortitude to stand up for you! He is a hero! And you are a hero as well.

She can either be herself and learn to play nice or not, but that's no help that I can see. Maybe if people hadn't protected her for so long, she'd have learned to not treat people the way she does. There's more to it I'm sure but that's not my stuff. FINALLY! I see it's not mine. 

You hang the heck on to this! You keep this hard won truth in the forefront of your heart and mind as you work through the heartlessness of your mother's 'casual' down playing, self serving, tone deaf self assessment and attitude toward you and your dear sibs.

Your mother has no power and she seems to be so arrogant as to not realize it. Just sitting here and all I can think right now, once again, is WOW!!! How foolhardy is she?

[wisingup]

Moglow - congrats on your brother getting a chance to be in the ring with mom & see for himself what you've been saying all these years.  That happened to me too - once I stepped back firmly, brother got the full treatment & is now as done with her as I am. 

I'm guessing you know that you are unlikely to get a real true apology & behavior change from her?  That she is no more capable of this than your cat learning to fly?  In the end there will be no justice, but to have your brother on your side is huge. 

My brother has told me recently that when I started "this whole thing" - meaning standing up for myself - he understood & was more on my side than hers.  He just didn't think opening that whole can of worms was necessary & he had been managing by keeping on neutral topics in her presence.  But once he became her go-to guy for all her issues & drama and got the full monster treatment, as you describe below, he got fully on board & understood why I went off the rails. 

Hang in there & step back from this mess as much as you possibly can.  You've done so much for so long.

[Boat Babe]

Un fucking real Moglow.  I hope the gummies have kicked in and you're feeling chill.  Must be really validating to have your brother fully on side though.  Sending hugs

[moglow]

I've been sitting in this and here's where I am: It's possible she doesn't remember events of 50+ years ago, who does. I stopped holding on to all of that a long time ago and worked hard to exorcise that from my mind. Recent conversations have stirred it up and it'll take some time for it to settle. A blanket "things happened between us" and "I owe you a huge apology" burns more than heals - and it's not an apology. An apology demanded by my brother, however grudgingly supplied, seems to be checking a box so she can move on to what she really wants, whatever that is.

To be honest that apology doesn't take it away either. My sister in law seems to think this may be the beginning of a change, and that's okay. I'm still not interested anymore. She didn't stop the abuse because I left her home. The verbal and emotional abuse never stopped. I tried most of my life to have a decent relationship with her, sometimes somewhat more successfully than others even if only on the surface. Overall, it was a big fat nothing while she insulted, demeaned and humiliated me in one way or another.

A cousin of mine called yesterday, one who md demands "her due" since there is basically no one else. This cousin -for reasons I'm still not quite sure- still panders to mother, puts up with her crap and the continuous litany of spite and complaints, all while making amazon orders for her and taking in the complaints about the costs and she's being cheated and why isn't it there yet and cousin needs to take care of xyz. It sounds like cousin has had about enough, but tried to convey to me that mother needs help and someone needs to help her - honey, it ain't me. If asked I'd help her get someone in there, to clean her house and help her with personal care, whatever she can to stay in her own home as long as possible, but no. I'm not down for being the one.

Cousin shared several choice tidbits mother has said about me and it firms my resolve to just say no. She confirmed - when mother called raging after my brother left her house - that we were all beaten and abused, and the whole family knew it. Told md flat out and detailed incidents she personally knew of and that mother had told her. Multiple accusations that I've told lies and manipulated my brothers against her, for many years now. Mocking our conversations and things I've said, claiming it was all just put on to get something out of her. Openly laughing when it was clear I was hurting or things weren't going well in my life. Comments that if I was "any kind of a daughter" I'd come clean her house and take care of things there. It's still all about her and what she thinks is due her, no indication that she wants any kind of actual relationship. Very superficial and demanding and she's the queen of all.

I'm much calmer and better today, got some sleep and thinking things through. Her stuff isn't and won't be mine. I still don't like or trust her and know that she's not the kind of person I'd have as a friend. I've met and come to know the gorgon and that monster isn't needed here. She can exorcise that demon on her own.

[bloomie]

moglow - I am very impressed with the settled, resolute place you are in with all of this. Let the winds blow from a possibly codependent cousin. 💨 You are staying on course. And we are cheering you on!!!!!!!

[moglow]

How about true amends that recognizes and names the actual behaviors that harmed you? How about a bit of genuine contrition? How about a big ole piece of humble pie for a change? How about taking the opportunity in the final season of your mother's life and finish better by offering some kind of truly genuine concern for, and approval of, you and your sibs?

All of that Bloomie. And how about if she can't do any of that, she just leave me be and stop with the fauxpologies and heart emojis. Sis seems to think it's "a start" for her to apologize even in such a blanket way. Okay, you think that and hold it close as you want. That doesn't change things for me. I truly don't see this as resentment or holding a grudge on my part [and please check me if I'm wrong here], I'm just not interested in "more" after all she put me through. I've had plenty.

I firmly believe mother sent that text [DECADES of confirmed abuse and she "apologizes" via text?!] with her own unspoken agenda lurking behind her. Maybe she thinks that means she can continue on and trot out all she needs us to do for her now - after all, she did as he asked and apologized. 

[moglow]

Sigh. Md continues sending "and another thing!" type texts to brother, all bashing me and what I've "done/doing to her" - none of which he's seen or heard from me. Ever. Accusations of me backbiting and backstabbing "just like i always do," that im making up and spreading lies about her, and now they're accused of letting me get away with it, accepting it.

She wants, demands, pushes for a reaction so she can SEE?! Just like I said!! To justify her relentless anger. He's around me at work several days a week, lives closest, we're around each other the most out of the family - said flat out I do none of the things she accuses. If anything, SHE is the one doing it and doesn't stop. Yet she questions why she has no relationship with HIM, why HE stays away. No self-awareness or responsibility whatsoever.

It was weird talking with him about what's occurred. He was stunned by what's been said, the depth of her anger, the baseless random accusations that we're expected to explain. I told him, I'd heard much worse from her, many times now. It's all real to her, now seemingly designed to drive wedges between us, her children. She truly believes we sit around every day making up things against her. How devastated she'd be to know she's rarely mentioned.

I'm not gonna lie, it hurts. If I were setting out to hurt and undermine her, if I were talking smack about her and making things up, I deserve it. If I'd done any of the things I'm accused of, is deserve all this and more. Then I think - well, that's what SHE is saying too. So who's delusional?

[bloomie]

It was weird talking with him about what's occurred. He was stunned by what's been said, the depth of her anger, the baseless random accusations that we're expected to explain. I told him, I'd heard much worse from her, many times now. It's all real to her, now seemingly designed to drive wedges between us, her children. She truly believes we sit around every day making up things against her. How devastated she'd be to know she's rarely mentioned.

It seems whatever mask of civility she was able to keep in place has well and truly slipped. How heartening to know your family, the ones who know and love you best, actually have close and loving relationships with you, see the truth of who you are, your good character and kindness. Sounds like quite the rant MD has going on and my guess is no one is answering or buying in.

I'm not gonna lie, it hurts. If I were setting out to hurt and undermine her, if I were talking smack about her and making things up, I deserve it. If I'd done any of the things I'm accused of, is deserve all this and more. Then I think - well, that's what SHE is saying too. So who's delusional?

This does hurt. A lot! I trust there is comfort in the knowledge that you have not stooped to her level and will not. MD is climbing a mountain of dirty tricks attempting to dominate the narrative and rewrite history.

This is what I want to say to MD on all of your behalf (and other things that are not polite that I can't say here ): "Consequences sting MD. Tantrum if you must, but your family sees right through you!!! And it ain't pretty."