Stressing about conversation with parents over uBPD sis

[walking on broken glass]

Two days from now, I am going home for a short break and I am already stressing about it. All visits back home follow the same pattern. At first, my parents are all over me and happy to have me but soon enough they start interrogating me about my life "what will you do when your contract ends?", "are you thinking of having children?" etc. The big conversation topic that always comes up is my relationship with my uBPD sister. We are both in our 40s, she is my only and older sister, and lives in another country. For the past ten years or so I have managed to maintain very low contact with her. Before that we had lived together in the same city for a while and it was a nightmare: she would demand constant attention, would yell at me if I could not meet her whenever she wanted, criticize my friends and my boyfriends, pick fights with me in front of them, and even pick fights with them when I invited her to hang out with us. She made up stories and served them to our parents who were ready to believe everything she said, and never once took my side. I thankfully had therapy and gradually learned that I had to keep my distance from her for the sake of my mental health. It became easier after she moved away and now we only speak once every three months or so, and whatsapp sometimes in-between. I don't share anything personal with her, except for stuff that are really big and won't be able to hide (for instance, that I got married or got a new job). Our conversations consist of her complaining to me about her job, her colleagues etc. and me listening and nodding. There's never anything positive in her life, but at least I am not her target anymore because she has nothing on me. When she asks anything personal, I deflect or respond in a very abstract way and cut the conversation short.

That is, in short, the background story. My parents never accepted my decision to keep low contact with sis. In the past, I tried to argue my point of view but they would not have it so I decided to just give up and put up with their persistent moaning about how I am a bad sister, how I should be more in touch with my sis, how she loves me so much but I don't care etc. Every time I go back home, the same refrain comes up with my dad giving me the 'I will die in sadness because you haven't fixed your relationship with your sister'. Normally I just stare, shake my head, and respond 'we've been through this before', and mostly wait for the preaching to be over. But somehow this time I don't think I want to do that. I have spent the past few days in dread of the trip and the impending conversation, and I have played up various dialogues in my head about how I can respond. I don't think anything will change but I am sick of getting blamed for something that is not my fault. I don't want to accept the burden. I don't want to open up a window to the past either, in the sense that I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of talking about past incidents and explaining why my sister behaved badly. It is pointless because they will never see it. She might be holding a knife to my throat in front of them and they would be saying "she is just kidding". But I want to say to them that this is not about me fixing the relationship with my sister because that's as good a relationship we will ever get. That she needs to go to therapy to deal with her issues. That they talk about her feelings and their feelings but they never seem to consider mine: aren't my feelings valid? They claim that she loves me but her love comes with unhealthy doses of jealousy, obsession, and competition. I can't put up with that and the feelings it creates in me: anger, fear, sadness. They don't have to understand it, they don't have to like it, but they have to respect it. I will always love her because she is my sister, and I wish her well, but I can't be closer to her because it is bad for me (and quite frankly I think it is bad for her too because she obsesses over me). Even the few chats we have are a burden because of her constant negativity; only a therapist would be able to deal with such an one-way conversation.

I am writing all this because I want to put my thoughts in order and be able to coherently express them when the time comes. In the past, I got defensive, angry, bitter. This time I want to keep my head cool, be clear and firm, but try not to get emotional; show them this is not me being stubborn or angry or petty or having my 'rebellion', as they like to say. I am not a child having a tantrum, I am an adult that came to a very well thought-out and conscious decision, and does not need unsolicited advice or input.

What do you think of my plan? Does it make sense? Does this resonate with any of you?

[Leonor]

My favorite response of all time to conversations that are circular, baiting, passive aggressive, or accusatory is so simple: "hmm."

That's it. It doesn't have to be a huff, or sarcastic. It can be very simple, like someone said something of mild interest and maybe later if you have time you'll give it a second thought, but if not that's just fine, too. "Hmm."

The best part of the "hmm" is that it works. You feel calmer because you are responding but not reacting. You are not working yourself up, rehearsing what you want to say, or picking apart the argument. You can even do a Mona Lisa mild smile or slight nod to add a tone of non committal kindness. Just, "hmm."

It also is encouraging, and your fellow conversation partner will go on to explain further, and continue to chase down that brass ring: your reaction, your upset, your something. They tend to talk more, say more, explain more, and that gives you information on what they really think and feel.

You stay in you. "Hmm." Eventually they will talk themselves into a corner, blurt out something so ridiculous that they will embarrass themselves, or shrug and give up.

They may even attack your "hmm." "I'm going to expire from sadness and all you can say is hmm?" That's when sometimes I say, "I'm sorry, did you ask me a question?" "Yes, are you going to call your sister?" "Ah. I hadn't planned to do so today." "Well, I think you should!" "Hmm."

They're not interested in you mending things with your sister. They're interested in drama and triangulation and oh woe is us-ness, and they achieve that by baiting you. If you want to kindly but firmly decline the invitation to that pity party, keep it simple: hmm.

[bloomie]

walking on broken glass - More then you could ever know your description of your parents' triangulation, bullying, shaming, and history of favoritism and inability to stay in their lane strike a strong cord in my own sibling relationships. This is a really painful and unjust dynamic you are caught in the middle of.

Something that has helped me a lot is to remember that I can recognize triangulation and this kind of relentless emotionally manipulative behavior you describe you are on the receiving end of from your parents and I can choose to only address the issues I am encountering with the people standing right in front of me.

Part of healthy boundaries is that sometimes I have to speak them and I choose to because, just possibly, I have stayed silent and sucked it up one too many times and it is time to limit the discussion going forward.

Something that helps me is using a phrase like... let me stop you right there... when it begins and then let them know what you said here: you are as close to your sister as you are able to be for your health and wellbeing and you will not be talking about this further as it is not productive or respectful to anyone involved. This is rightfully between you and your sister only.

When they blah blah about how sad or disappointed they are, that this involves them, too, they have a 'right to their opinion',  another phrase that is helpful is... that may be, but....I am uncomfortable discussing this further...

I believe there are times to speak our truth, one time, and then walk away, change the subject, redirect, whatever you need to do to then live out the boundaries you are putting in place around this.

As far as sharing the hurt you have experienced and the injustice of both being seen as the root cause and also responsible to fix it in this limited relationship with your sister, you do that if you truly need to in order to know your truth is out there, but I will tell you the odds of them suddenly seeing how this is causing you such angst and hurt are very small.

I am sorry, and maybe your experience would be the exception, but most likely what your parents want is for you to subject yourself to your sister's dysfunction, rivalry, negativity, and damaging presence in your life so that they can have the family dynamic and paradigm they envision for THEM.

It doesn't mean you don't say what you need to say, I just don't want you to get your hopes up that it will suddenly open your parents' eyes and unclog their tone deaf ears. You can't control that, but you can do what you need to do to no longer live in dread of going to visit them.

My heart is with you. Please keep sharing here. Writing it out in a community of people who get it and say this is NOT RIGHT, is its own form of seeking justice in such painful family circumstances.

[walking on broken glass]

Thank you, Leonor, thank you, Bloomie!

Leonor, I like the hmmmm response! I have tried it and it does work up to a certain point, but after a while they get persistent and I just have to put an end to the discussion. I am sorry to hear Bloomie that you have had similar experiences. You are absolutely right, I don't expect at all for my parents to understand my perspective (it hasn't happened all those years, it won't happen now, I am fully aware of that) but I was thinking that it might feel good to go a bit on the offensive instead of passively listening to the accusations etc. In the sense 'you are passing on a burden to me that is not mine, here it is back'. I don't want to go into details, ruminate and discuss the past etc. because it is pointless and exhausting. I simply want to stand up for myself and shut them down. And claim some peace for my holidays.

It so happened that I just found out that my mum will have to do hip replacement surgery in autumn, and as my dad is very little mobile, I will have to come and spend a few weeks with them to help out. I can work from home so it will be feasible but my first thoughts were 'oh no'. Am I a terrible person?

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Yep, this resonates. I could have written this post about my own family. 

I agree with what others have said. I am not sure anyone can understand how heartbreaking and exasperating it can be to keep repeatedly trying to be heard but instead are constantly dismissed. I am sorry for that, and if it helps, you are not alone.

I do not think it is your fault that they do not understand. Sometimes you can explain something in several different ways, but one thing you cannot do is get it sink in. How they receive it, and what they do with it is on them.

I understand how great it feels initially when you visit and they are happy. Your guard might be down. You are just enjoying the moment, but then the interrogation starts. Good times are over, and you are in defense mode. Overall, I think you should do what you think will give you peace. Only you know what that is. However, I usually think less is more.

In my opinion the less you say, less you jump into it, less you explain, the better you may feel because you are not giving yourself away to this. Shut it down as soon as it starts with short quips as already suggested. I believe the most important thing is for you to take care of your own wellbeing. You do that for you. You do not need to explain what that entails to anyone or work to get a mutual understanding with anyone.   

[moglow]

Walking - They are *choosing*, not only to not understand, but to not truly listen to you. They don't appear to actually want an explanation or resolution, but to stir something unnecessarily? You can't fix that for them and to me you're within your rights to refuse to have those conversations. They serve no purpose other than to wound. I'm not suggesting you go against your inner self and be impolite or disrespectful, but if you have to just keep cutting those conversations short, then do that. At some point they'll either buy a clue that you're not going there, or they won't. You just keep doing what you do, be consistent with and for yourself. Be accountable for yourself and your own behavior, that's best I can advise.

I don't want to go into details, ruminate and discuss the past etc. because it is pointless and exhausting.

... isn't a bad thing to say, really. Then you just don't from that point on and you still don't have to explain anything to anyone. LIVE your boundaries!

[Sheppane]

This whole thing really resonates with me. I agree with everything else that has been said here. Its so difficult and so painful I'm really sorry you have to interact with this dynamic. You are seeing it very correctly for what it is and I'm glad you've been able to give yourself some distance from it over time. But the anxiety in advance of these conversations is something I really relate to.

I remember once reading something about the expression to " pick up the gauntlet". The gauntlet was a piece of medieval armour , a glove and when thrown on the ground in combat it was an invitation to the other party to initiate a duel to " pick up the gauntlet". Somehow I found this image very helpful. The idea that we don't have to pick up the gauntlet when we are being invited into a duel - which is exactly what these conversations are. We can just leave the glove on the floor.  Sometimes in the middle of these crazy conversations I look at the floor and imagine the piece of armour just lying there 

Sadly I think what we sometimes hope is that maybe if I spell it out this time they will hear or understand our perspective,  something we think would be very healing for us. In my case as someone who never stuck up for myself in these types of conversations ( also around my parents telling me how I don't do enough for my sib), I have some sort of feeling that I owe it to myself to put the truth out there. I have also played out dialogues in my mind,  that desire to be heard. And yet one time when I did exactly that in a very calm manner it provoked such a rage full response that I could never have been prepared for and which damaged the relationship a lot. So what I'm saying is I think we hold onto a type of fantasy in our sadness, that maybe if we tweak the conversation/ response this way or that , it might actuslly be ok. Of course I would hope for you that it would and no one ever really knows for sure how these things go but I suppose as someone else said in these types of dynamics that would be more the exception.

I used a lot of mental energy trying to come up with some " script" that might work but really the best writer in the world could present me with one and FOO will still do what they do. The acceptance of that gave me some relief. Its not your fault. Its also not up to you to fix this unhealthy dynamic. Sometimes it's easier to accept than other times though.

Seeing the dynamic for what it is - that your family want you to have a relationship with your sister,  even if it is harmful to you , is a sobering thought. That is the way it plays out in my family too. It all has to do with serving the family even if that involves serious casualties along the way. Your needs are not a priority here, as they should be. In a healthy family there might be some acceptance that even if everyone wants it to look like the picture perfect happy family, some members may have issues with each other which is normal and their own business. The " family " mightnt like it but they would accept it as being reality. Nope. Not in the families that people on this board are familiar with. They refuse to accept that reality and someone gets to be the scapegoat,  to have the finger pointed at. " If only you'd do more, it would all be OK " is what they are saying.

You've got great advice here already in terms of what to say once it kicks off. I would say don't get into the content. It is an invitation to battle which you can refuse to accept. Leave them arguing with themselves. I would maybe have a single phrase to say at the outset and no more , something like " sorry I'm not having this conversation again ". Rinse and repeat. Know in advance your bottom line / when you might leave etc. If you feel there is a chance you can make yourself heard and that is something for your own sense of sticking up for yourself out loud , then do that,  but know it comes with the risk that it may aggravate things. But I think that's a choice only you can make at the time. I know when I feel sometimes I owe it to myself to speak up , to honour myself , that actually just acknowledging that can be enough. And my strength lies more in knowing where my silence is a better way to honour that. That's not quite the same as allowing someone to walk all over me. It is choosing not to engage which is a strong boundary. You've got this !!

[walking on broken glass]

Thank you all so much! So much heartfelt advice and words here. I already feel a little bit better about it. The 'conversation' hasn't come up yet, maybe because I am not giving them the chance to isolate me by keeping my boyfriend close by, so that I won't be alone with them (works as a charm hehe). If it happens, I will decide on the spot how much to say but will probably stay as disengaged as possible (I loved the gauntlet metaphor!).

In the meantime, I have spoken with sis once - she skyped when I was there. She had a new fictional story about two guys who are interested in her but they live far away and she can't have a relationship with either just now but maybe in the future (every now and then she comes up with such stories of 'promising but unfulfilled love'). She was asking about my relationship and what is important for me but I managed to deflect. It's sad that she still feels she has to play this game perhaps because she feels she will be more accepted if there is a love interest in the scene, like she is 'normal' or something. She never had a relationship or stable friendship for that matter. Anyway... This is what therapists are for, if she decided to see one but it is easier to get stuck in familiar patterns and not do the work...

[Sheppane]

Well done walking on broken glass - that sounds like you have kept very wise boundaries by your side. A suit of armour in the shape of another person I have found does come in useful 

I also just wanted to acknowledge that as you were posting about your sister and what sounds like her wanting to drag you into an old familiar tune ...you also spoke about her and her situation with a lot of compassion. Sounds like you can keep your boundary and also leave space for the issues she may face on her life,  allowing her to deal with them herself.  Which is amazing to keep your boundary and also hold space for her. I find that very challenging to do as I often fall directly into judgement/ anger ( as it makes me feel better/ self righteous etc. Something  I'm working on!). Anyway just wanted to reflect back your kindness and remind you you seem to be the bigger person in the room. Hope the rest of trip goes OK..

[walking on broken glass]

Thank you, Sheppane, that's really kind. I find that PD individuals make it very challenging for us to be supportive and understanding, especially when they make us their target! Don't beat yourself up if you get judgemental and angry. I often find myself raging and blaming sis. I think it is a normal reaction, and sometimes it is the healthy and right reaction too. Getting angry means you are willing to keep your boundaries!

[walking on broken glass]

Update from my enmeshed family: I spoke to my cousins and we agreed to hang out some time this week. One of them talks to my sis regularly. She is the kind of person that thinks of herself as the 'fixer', she likes giving advice and she is a bit of a busybody. She is also a rather old fashioned family-oriented person, in the sense that she thinks family is the most important thing in the world etc. She is pleasant enough and we used to hang out every now and then, when I got back from abroad, but we don't have a lot in common and I haven't seen her in years. In the past she had told me that I should talk to sis more often because 'it's a pity how alone she is' (how insulting to sis is this by the way?!). I worry that the subject of sis might come up and I am not sure how to handle it without sounding rude or abrupt. For instance, if she says something like 'how come you don't talk more often?', how do I say politely this is none of your business?!

[moglow]

"I'd rather not talk about her behind her back. I'm sure you understand." then a swift if polite change of subject. Busybodies, however well meant, amount to little more than gossips when you think about it. She may have whatever opinion and relationship with your sister she wants, that doesn't mean you must share it. And you dont have to explain it.

[walking on broken glass]

Thanks, moglow!
You know, it's strange: English is not my native language but every time it is about putting boundaries or having a confrontation, English comes much more natural to me. I find it much easier to put boundaries in English than in my native language! I will have to reformulate the sentences in my head in a way that would sound natural in my native language but firm at the same time.

[bloomie]

walking on broken glass - I have a brother I am estranged from - so no contact at his initiation after he violently attacked one of my family members and was now facing the consequences. 

One of my cousins, who is a kind soul not a gossip or busybody, occasionally brings up and asks about this brother. Each time I say kindly: "we are not in touch".  In your case, it would be easy to say something like: "we are not in close contact". The end. If pushed and asked why are you not in contact: "we just aren't it is not something I talk about." 

On some level, I understand people that love us both wanting to have some kind of context for the division. And, maybe they have even heard a version of what went down, or why we are no longer close to a sibling and are wanting to clarify and verify for their own sakes. The breakdown between siblings has a ripple effect throughout the family system, I have found. It is undeniable. Even if they are not in direct line of fire, everyone is hurt by the disordered, dysfunctional, high conflict, rivalrous behaviors that cause us to pull back in the first place.

But, as much as our distance from a sibling might alter the idea or quash the hope of a parent of adult children for a certain family dynamic, it is truly none of their business. We are valuable enough to have a separate, equal, loving relationship with all on our own for our family members. We are not more valuable or desirable as part of a family package. We are no longer on a long road trip stuffed in the backseat with our sibling and forced together and instructed to 'get along'. Our parents no longer have authority or agency over our relationships with others.

We are also mature enough to act kindly and mannerly at such times we are all together at larger family gatherings no matter how our sibling acts. ⬅️ That is the only thing that might become anyone else's issue.

[walking on broken glass]

We are valuable enough to have a separate, equal, loving relationship with all on our own for our family members. We are not more valuable or desirable as part of a family package. We are no longer on a long road trip stuffed in the backseat with our sibling and forced together and instructed to 'get along'. Our parents no longer have authority or agency over our relationships with others.

We are also mature enough to act kindly and mannerly at such times we are all together at larger family gatherings no matter how our sibling acts. ⬅️ That is the only thing that might become anyone else's issue.

I really loved the way you put it - spot on. I am really sorry to hear about your brother. It must be difficult having to deal with a violent attack. No contact sounds absolutely the right choice.

[walking on broken glass]

I just wanted to share that I met with my cousins and dealt with the subject pretty well, I think! My cousin brought up in the conversation that she speaks with my sis quite often and that my sis asks her how I am doing, and that she replies 'why do you ask me?' Then she paused to see if I would take the bait and I said 'indeed, why does she ask you?'. My cousin then went on to ask me if we talk and how often we talk and I said calmly 'we talk every now and then', and did not volunteer any more information. Then changed the subject. In the past I would have thought that a simple statement did not suffice and would feel I have to justify it with 'but I am really busy' or 'but there is a time difference' etc. This time I showed no interest in the gossip and was just factual without being defensive. Victory ✌️✌️

[bloomie]

walking on broken glass - this is a huge victory! Bravo!!! Great update and use of your tools!

[walking on broken glass]

The saga continues.
My mum will need to have a hip replacement surgery in autumn, and as my dad is not very mobile, I offered to come and stay with them for a while to give them some help. I work from home, so I could work from there. I suspect my mum told my sis this, who of course does not want to inconvenience herself and help in any way (she has been claiming she has only 10 days of leave per year and cannot come back even for holidays) but at the same time she resents me for offering because she thinks I pose as 'the good daughter'. 
Today she's been messaging me asking about how many days of leave I've got, when I can take it, and whether I can work from wherever. I lept my answers short and to the point, and as vague as I could. I don't know what she's up to but it's not good...

[moglow]

You know you don't have to answer her questions, right? None of that applies to or affects her personally in any way. You're not offering to help because of or in spite of her, it's because you can. If she can't for whatever reason, she just can't. No reflection on her whatsoever. She can take it up with mom and dad, or not. Still not your stuff.

[walking on broken glass]

Τhe problem is she won't say why she's asking the questions. It makes it sounds like it's casual conversation (it never is) so if I refuse to reply it sounds rude. I just said 'not sure how many days I've got, yeah the job is flexible'. It still annoys me though.