Loneliness and the gradual discard

[Sheppane]

I'm feeling very lonely these past few days. Does anyone else get hit by this and does it get easier ?

The current state of things is I still have contact with FOO but it is completely one sided. VVLC I guess.

It has been a very gradual transition. Not something I intended but a simple by product of me putting down boundaries and not caretaking every family crisis, over many years.

We were " close" growing up. Enmeshed and " close knit". Fun times too. But also the other side of that of vicious raging / shaming etc. Only as I got older did I see the sickly sweet closeness as unhealthy. Accepted in the tribe once you go along with that close enmeshment, not quite so much if you differentiate and " leave".

There has been shaming, guilt tripping,  occasional rage attacks over the years. Silent treatments a common feature used as a form of punishment ( usually for something very minor). Being left out of family events " oh but you're so busy we didn't think you'd come ".  When I call a passive agresssive " well its nice to hear your voice I was wondering had something happened ( not enough to call and find out though).

I think what's biting now is possibly a deeper level of acceptance. I know many folk need to go NC - I've been close but for now made a decision not to. So I contact them every so often by calling or else visiting. It never happens the other way around. When I do call it seems my father increasingly does a lot of sighing , in response to asking him how he is answering is usually " I'm in agony with my back/ I'm just about managing etc etc" . Large sigh how are you ? I could answer by saying my head fell off and the response would be vacant,  vague and disinterested. I never know whether this is a bait for me to come rescue or a punishment for having " left". Both, I guess.

I've had a lot going on recently and realised I can't really share this with them. I mean it would be strange to call someone who never calls and spill your heart out. One of my siblings who lives near them is enmeshed GC " good daughter " and has not contacted me  in 3yrs, other than to return a missed call. I looked through my call history recently and when I saw that 99% of calls to each of my FOO were outgoing from me I think it was a bit of a shock, or a moment of reckoning. I'm not actually imagining this, or being petty.
Is it too much to ask people who claim to love you to contact you and check in once in a while ?

I occasionally get lovebombed with multiple text messages, jokes, silly things that I can't really respond to in a normal way. And then it stops again and it's silence..

I used to have a schedule where I would call once every 2 wks - but of course with an entitled family system everyone wants their own call.  And then there's jealousy if I call one and not the other. So I stopped and decided to call only if I felt like it. The periods between widened and no one ever called me. I recognise that may sound childish but I think it's the lack of reciprocity which stings.

It's almost like all I had to do was drop the rope a bit on my side and there was nothing left anyway. I'm beginning to wonder is this a classic narcissistic discard that I just haven't noticed.

So here I am. I have family. But they never contact me and it hurts. The long silence now is the inevitable consequence of me not chasing them for relationships the way I used to..

And when I do see them it's so unpredictable. Sometimes there are moments where it is warm and genuine, other times toxic. When I'm playing by the rules it's lovely.  When I set a boundary, not so.

But those nice times can be dangerous too as its what gets me into thinking " maybe this is fixable". The child in me getting a sense of love and belonging back I guess.

I have learned to take care of myself when things are good as inner child likes to over embellish these times " see they love you " ...but it is exactly this which sends me down a self doubt rabbit hole, thinking " is it me, is this all my fault , do i not do enough ".

But recently I have pulled myself out. No , it's not me. It's not my fault that my family don't contact me. It's their punishment.

I recognise also that because of their low self esteem there is also some element of them being incapable of having an emotionally mature relationship. As in, maybe there is something there that they don't call because they feel I'm busy and as my Mom put it before " I don't want to call and be disrupting your life when I know you are busy, and you'll say oh no there's mom calling again". But I did adress this. I told her before I would love if she called me to check in from time to time. And still she never reslly dose. Instead she sends messages saying " how are you? Call me some time I would love to hear your voice". Its the same with my father who is displaying more and more narcissistic traits as he ages.

So here we are. The ex golden child on the outside looking in, wondering what happened. There was no big moment, no defining row, it just crept up like this. I suppose that's how it goes. The gradual discard.

Anyway I feel lonely today looking from the outside in and just wanted a space to express it and hear from others if this resonates.
* Moderators I just reposted this on this forum as I put it on wrong one earlier. Thanks

[NarcKiddo]

So much of this resonates, Sheppane. Hugs.

I completely agree that the nice times are the most dangerous. I liken the situation to playing a slot machine. Those machines are programmed to tie you in. Just as you are feeling that the losses may not be worth taking you get a small win, or a series of small wins. Enough to make you happy and keep going. Every so often you get a bigger win and that keeps you hooked. I used to find the good times with my mother so addictive. I would make the most huge efforts to keep her happy, or at least calm, but when she was nice to me - oh, boy. I now realise that the fun times were totally fake and I don't now enjoy what I would have considered fun. She would pretend we were doing all this fun stuff together and that I had a say, but actually I never did. It was only what she thought was fun and I was given the honour of being allowed to participate. I am very glad to read you have identified the nice times as dangerous - I took a huge step forward with my inner equilibrium when I figured that one out.

When I started going grey rock my mother continued to call regularly. Then there came a point where I was the one who had to pick up the phone and, like you, I did (and do) make duty calls as my conscience dictates. I noticed my mother started a policy of asking how I was. I think she was feeling the grey rock and this was a response. But it never felt like a genuine question, more like a box-ticking exercise. Since I was doing grey rock the answer to her question was always "I'm fine. Nothing of interest going on here." Me being the one to initiate the calls did sort of feel like a discard. I certainly noticed it. And then she started calling again. We now go through cycles of her calling and then going a bit quiet, leaving the calls to me, and then calling again. I have come to the conclusion that what I thought was a discard actually wasn't. In that I have always been discarded, as a separate person. The real NarcKiddo is of no interest whatsoever, and never has been. When I was enmeshed she was guaranteed good supply from me so the calls came thick and fast. Now she is not guaranteed good supply from me so she does not call unless she is desperate for supply. The times she initiates calls are always when some drama is happening. There is never a call just to say "Hi, how are things?" In the past there would be that type of call, but then I would tell her things she could later use. I think she has now realised I don't, so there is no point in her making a call unless she wants something.

Those text messages your mother sends asking you to call - ugh. Classic manipulation. You've told her she is free to call and you would like it. Don't hold your breath!

Your post rather reminds me of T S Eliot: "This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper." No big moment. No defining row. Because we don't dare to instigate the big moment. And nor do they, if they realise there is any chance you might not grovel and beg them to forgive you.

I hear you. Maybe you could try doing something fun with inner child and see if this eases your loneliness. I've just taken up colouring and find it very therapeutic.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Oh it very much resonates with me, Sheppane. My FoC's relationship with both sides of my FOO and my ILs was extremely one-sided for years before I finally got fed up with the lot of the and went NC. Yes, only I would call them. And when I did, it was the exact same line with the, "Well it's nice to hear your voice."  I had dropped the rope with my sisters too and our relationship was pretty much limited to whole family get togethers, which were increasingly rare as my parents hated traveling to us, and we had "too many" (3) kids to fit in their "tiny house." (3 bedroom with a yard) So they couldn't be bothered to come and we were almost never invited, and it was a real chore to go because it was manufactured crisis and superficial fussing over the kids from mother, the ST from my father, and let's play happy families from the sibs. I too stopped caretaking their crises simply because I had a life of my own and just couldn't. It was a process but by the time I got to NC I no longer felt guilty about this. I also had some real friends at this point and the contrast between their treatment of me and my "family's" was just unbearable.

I was extremely enmeshed as a child and teen, engulfed was probably more like it. I would finish my mother's sentences level. My husband's family was a similar kind of enmeshed. This in particular reminds me of his family:

"I used to have a schedule where I would call once every 2 wks - but of course with an entitled family system everyone wants their own call.  And then there's jealousy if I call one and not the other. So I stopped and decided to call only if I felt like it. The periods between widened and no one ever called me. I recognise that may sound childish but I think it's the lack of reciprocity which stings.

It's almost like all I had to do was drop the rope a bit on my side and there was nothing left anyway. I'm beginning to wonder is this a classic narcissistic discard that I just haven't noticed."

Early on we would go through the rota of his parents and aunts every month. It was only four phone calls. But the aunts would hang up with us and then immediately compare notes. If we called the same aunt first, talked longer with one, neglected to share a bit of news with all three, or took too long to get to all three, we would hear about it... through my MIL! By the time we got to aunt number 3 she already knew all we had to share. So we had to come up with something NEW... as a consolation for being last on the rota... and then the other aunts would start up, "Why didn't you tell US???"

So that was an exercise in absurdity and we just... quit. So did they. Never heard from the aunts again except for one pathetic flying monkey attempt to get photos of our kids. Christmas cards, everything, done without a peep. It hurts because I did think they were crazy but loved us after all. There was too much crazy to have much room left for love, after all.

It is lonely.

But yes, it does get easier. You are reclaiming the energy you had been pouring into the bottomless pit of your family relationships. It's raw in the beginning.

[Sheppane]

Thank you narckiddo. It really helped reading what you wrote. I'm sorry you've had the same. I love the slot machine analogy. I often get a " high" out of the interactions when they go well. I only noticed this in recent years. So much pent up angst that gets released after a " good " interaction. Often accompanied by a petulant inner child voice saying " I told you they love us. It IS all your fault!!! ( Stamps feet 

But it is super helpful to have that addictive thing heard and validated too.

And this : " I used to find the good times with my mother so addictive. I would make the most huge efforts to keep her happy, or at least calm, but when she was nice to me - oh, boy. I now realise that the fun times were totally fake and I don't now enjoy what I would have considered fun."

Reading that made me realise the fakeness of the good times too. I mean, I have to stage them / manufacture them. Usually around a wider event say a birthday or a holiday weekend where folks " meet their families ". We have had backyard BBQs which have " gone well". But really what would be much more normal would be to get a call once in a while. Someone who says " hey sheppane how are you ? What's going on". That might feel more real.

To put it another way I never meet with a good friend and while I'm sitting there with them breathe a sigh of relief it's going OK and at the same time leave on a high thinking " YES !!! Deep down they do like me ".

This too " We now go through cycles of her calling and then going a bit quiet, leaving the calls to me, and then calling again. I have come to the conclusion that what I thought was a discard actually wasn't. In that I have always been discarded, as a separate person. The real NarcKiddo is of no interest whatsoever, and never has been.".

Yes. I think that has suddenly been a big realisation. Reading that really hit home. I was reading and then thought ...wait a minute. Because I always compare what I have now ( no reciprocity, lack of emotional intimacy, sometimes scapegoating) with what I had then ....thinking that what I had then was real love belonging and acceptance.  But of course you are right. What I had then was not healthy either. If I was truly accepted then,
I still would be, because its unconditional,  right ? So like you say it's maybe always been a discard , just at levels before that I never noticed. I thought I had unconditional acceptance before , but I guess if I did. I wouldn't be where I am now.

I'm going to write that quote down..I love it and I think I need to remember that. We've been whimpering now for a while.

Callmecordelia thank you also. Honestly it just feels so good to be heard as often in everything I read it doesn't quite tally.

What you said about superficial fussing really hit home. At one time when mom would be fussing like that I used tp think " great, I'm back in". Now it's beginning to feel like something I find harder and harder to tolerate. Because it never feels REAL. I used to be tough on myself about that, making excuses, maybe she feels awkward, maybe my father does too, maybe it's hard for them watching adult children move on etc etc But I'm beginning to question that more now. Mainly because they seem capable of genuine interest and interaction with my other sibs. And delight in telling me all that's going on in their lives. In a classic enmeshed way , I ask my mom how she is and she replies by telling me how one of my sibs is.

That thing with the rota and the aunts sounds so exhausting 

I thought that a rota would make it easier for me to make calls in my attempts to show up for them , keep my side clean etc . Knowing I would do it every few wks. And I tried hard to do that while accepting they would likely not reciprocate.

So 2 things have happened 1. They don't reciprocate,  as I expected. 2. The calls are getting more and more empty and leave me feeling sadder each time. It's like before I used to get hugely triggered by the content but by using the toolbox here I no longer engage in a lot of the rubbish so I get a bit less triggered,  just sadder I suppose.

" It hurts because I did think they were crazy but loved us after all. There was too much crazy to have much room left for"


That may be where I'm at. I think there probably is love there at the root. But the expression of it is so thwarted. Whatever is there is so distorted by the dysfunction.

I will do as you say and try and conserve my energy a bit. I am always so exhausted and this is why.

Maybe it's good, maybe it's another point on my journey. More letting go. I keep thinking of the future and not want to have regrets when people die, feeling I could have/ should have done more. But I think gradually I'm learning and beginning to really accept ...that I cant.

[Adria]

It's almost like all I had to do was drop the rope a bit on my side and there was nothing left anyway. I'm beginning to wonder is this a classic narcissistic discard that I just haven't noticed.

Yes, this is a classic narcissistic discard.  I'm so sorry for what you are going through.  I've been there.  I've been estranged for 30 years.  It does get easier.  We have to learn to love ourselves like the love we wish we had gotten from our family.  It is a process, but as you move along on this journey, you will gain your strength back and self-respect back.  The games drain the life out of us. 

It is so sad that it has come to this, but you are stronger than you know. In the end, I have realized that NC has protected me from much of their drama and hurt.  It is not the way I wanted it, but I had no choice.  I am stronger and more compassionate to other people because of this.  Most of all, I am okay and thriving.  You will be too.  Just be patient with yourself for as long as it takes (and it can take a long time to come to terms with this). 

Something that really helped me was the Luke 17 Ministries   https://luke173ministries.org/.

Luke 17 Ministries along with this Forum made me feel understood and not so alone.

I wish you all the best. We are here for you. Hugs, Adria

[InvisibleDaughter]

I felt everything you wrote on a personal level. Whether we did something wrong or not, to be forgotten and discarded shakes us to our core being.

As a Christian I know God didn't want our life to be like this. I also know the trials we endure build up our strength and character and can make us more loving individuals.

My NPD Mom usually waits until I reach out to her. We can have a "surface" relationship, don't ask any tough questions and do everything she wants for a few weeks tops. Something always goes wrong, it's ALWAYS my fault, then she starts spewing venom.

I'm over the guilt trips and drama.

I'm sorry your family isn't there for you, you're not alone 💜

[Molly953]

Oh gosh, thank you Sheppane for penning this , and above everything else, I am so sorry your experiencing this loneliness and sadness. You do not deserve to have gone through any of this. And yet, here you are and here we are and now what?

Thank you everyone who has commented, I feel less alone , finally, finding your words and descriptions that mirror some of mine.

Wishing none of the dysfunctions that visited our lives had to happen to any of us. Wishing I too could find some tools to gather myself, back when I first went no contact with my entire family, but having gathered tools and support where I could so I could  feel less  like a jigsaw puzzle all strewn about.
I want to say it get's easier, or if you find all the right tools everything will be fixed and you won't have to go through the emotional mine fields all the family puts in your way, tip toeing around siblings and other's denial and their hidden wounds.
For me, I had to claw my way out of the discard bin and find a good therapist, aka, seeing eye dog, to help me find my way. The journey continues. I bump into all sorts of walls and dark cob webbed corners of the past and try to put limits/boundaries about how much time I will let these family members take of my precious time. My daughter called them time vampires, she was quite astute to notice that.
I will say, periods will get easier, other times harder and sadness is inevitable given the family dynamics .
My hope in coming here is to find and give  you and myself a break and respite from the storm.
May the toolbox here bring you things you need. May the comradery here offer you comfort, may your indominable spirit convince you, you are a force to be reckoned with surviving all you have survived.
Please know, I have no prescription for wellness or wholeness or how to avoid the loneliness and sadness that comes, but I do know, just being here and brave enough to write your post, you are a survivor no matter how many mine fields your family puts in your path. You survive, you get to decide your best course and outcome. So do all of us.

[Jolie40]

when my kid was little & took naps, I took phone off hook so kid wouldn't be woken

guess what, PD parent ONLY wanted to call me during nap time! she could have called in eve or morn but no.....
then one day she just declared "I'm not calling you anymore since your phone is off hook"
so I had to be the one to call (I called once/week) & she'd tell me "I talk to you brother & sister EVERY day!
and that's because she often called them

in the end when she was in nursing home, she had everyone's number on a card
she'd call two of my sisters up to 50X per day (they counted!)  she'd call & 5 min later call again because she forgot she called.......it started to drive them nuts!

I didn't have to worry as she never called me from nursing home, not even once

she is gone now but I do face time with a sibling who lives out of state....I look forward to the weekly connection as we get along good
there is another sibling I call who is very much like PD parent so I have to be careful with those calls

I'm sorry Sheppane for your loneliness......it's so tough dealing with FOO

[blacksheep7]

Hi Sheppane,

I'm sorry and I understand your loneliness  I am nc with foo, exactly five years.     I was close with my sister, at that time mainly superficial.  She always  liked to complain about covert nm as well as myself.  Eventually I went  nc with nm, foo followed,  radio silence.  I had written in the past but she never answered. 
Your quote I recognise also that because of their low self esteem there is also some element of them being incapable of having an emotionally mature relationship 

I realized that I missed her, only her, when I was not busy enough socially.  The fact that my forty year old children still have a relationship with my foo, keeps me in touch, sometimes.  Well, my sister hasn't changed.  I was a Good supply  for her and nm, they always wanted to be with me when I had my grandkids.

My son was attending a get together with Foo, at the same time introducing  his new gf .  When it was my sister's turn, she ignorned  her and asked my ds, pretaining to his dd «Oh, xxx is not here?» she asked....instead of greeting his new gf 
Ds answered «no, sorry xxx is not here and Jane (fictitious name) excuses herself for being here».     

It's only the children that interest her.  Easy, no adult conversations.  That cut off  my loneliness right there.  I would still be a supply for her.

My M, the same, would always complain that she didn't see my ds enough but when he was sitting next to her, crickets.....waiting for the others to initiate a conversation. 

In 2012 I was in the hospital, not doing too well because of all the Rage I kept inside for decades   She knew it but never called, later saying  like a 12 year old child «you don't want to talk to me, so I don't».    When I reconnected, then, she still didn't ask me the cause of my illness.  Pulled a revenge on me, that's when I went nc for good. 

Don't get me wrong, being in contact or not is to each his own.  There is no right or wrong here.  I am better off nc and yes it does get easier, accepting that they won't change. 

I hope you are feeling a bit better.
Keeping busy, having hobbies, seeing people who love us for who we are.