The Manipulation is Real

clarityneeded · June 12, 2023, 02:45:59 PM

So this has been a long, tedious process. I told him last night that we couldn't keep living like this and that I thought it would be best if I move out (I am the financial provider).

He told me that that would only make it harder and that cohabitating wasn't so bad. He asked me to stay in the house as living separately would only make EVERYTHING harder. He told me he wanted to break the cycle of divorce and broken homes for the kids and we have done good as parents as are kids are very well-behaved and do good in school. He added our oldest would be able to understand but our 10-year-old would be destroyed by this and that he would like to keep living together for her. He said he would put up with any torture just to protect her. I told him that kids are resilient and that our kids would still be good even if we are not together anymore. He acknowledged treating me poorly over the years but said he didn't see that he was wrong then. I told him it was too late and that the romantic/intimate part of our relationship was done forever. He said he wasn't asking for that, only for us to stay under the same roof for the kids. I told him I would have to think about it.

I then told him there was another cycle I was wanting to break for the kids and that was one of abuse. That's when he turned and the conversation went from calm to ugly.

He told me the following:

1. I married him with the knowledge he had ADHD and trauma and that I accepted that when I did
I countered that I was 21 when we got married and I had no idea he had ADHD or how his military trauma would affect him

2. That I am abandoning him when he has a mental illness and can't help the way he acts

3. That marriage is forever and I am negging on that because he is sick

4. That he has been begging me to help him for years
In fact, I am the one who has been begging him to get help for years.

After it turned into the blame game, I told him I was ending the conversation and needed to think about things. He really is pulling out every trick in the book and the amount of guilt I feel is immeasurable.

Help!

SonofThunder · June 12, 2023, 04:07:50 PM

Hello clarityneeded,

I'm so sorry that your marriage is plagued by abuse and manipulation. Yes, I agree that PD's will pull out all the stops to guilt the host to continue their hosting.

I will continue to point you to the toolbox, which if boldly followed, will assist you in whatever decision you choose for yourself going forward. Imo you are experiencing very classic PD traits of manipulation, projection, gaslighting and more.

I also found it very helpful, in the heat of experiences, to align the top 100 traits in the Personality Disorders tab with my experiences to provide myself a term and validate my experiences. Then, I will look to the Toolbox tab on how to strengthen my resolve to press forward to reach my goals of self-protection. You are not alone.

SoT

notrightinthehead · June 12, 2023, 04:32:59 PM

In addition to what what already has been said, please consider that even if he has ADHD and suffers from trauma, he is responsible for how he behaves. If he is not, he needs to be institutionalized.

I agree with you, he is pulling every string that has worked in the past. Of course you realize that nothing will change if you don't change.

I remember the "you should help me" reproach. I bet you have tried every trick in the book to help heal him. If you could help him, he would be well by now. Instead, he probably got worse and so did you.

This is a good time to look for any help you can get. Friends, family, therapist, support group. You need everybody to support you. Your mind should be clear before you make a decision. Once you made your decision, don't look back. Do what is best for the kids and for you.

Lookin 2 B Free · June 13, 2023, 01:19:43 AM

to both SOT's and NRITH's comments.

If there's a way to leave an abusive PD relationship without them making you out to be the bad guy, I'd like to hear what it is. "Selfish" "cruel" "heart of stone" is just a tiny sample of what I heard (that's not unfit to repeat here).

You have to decide what's best for you and your children. It may be different than my situation.

I was pretty clear leaving was best for my kids and that I'd rather deal with guilt (unfounded, but there anyway) re my husband/partner (who was never helped by anything I or any therapist ever did) than feel guilty about about my kids who had no power or choice in the situation and who, unlike him, would be affected long term by my choices.

Time has helped with the guilt. It slowly subsided and it's now gone. And I'm really grateful I was somehow able to break away. Even when I felt clear it was right to leave, it was still very hard. I hope you get all the help you need to find clarity and be able to act on it, whatever that might be.

SonofThunder · June 13, 2023, 06:14:35 AM

Hello again clarityneeded,

I want to suggest that you look back and review your Out of the FOG posts to potentially see a pattern in your partners abusive behavior and your pattern of decision making in response.

Looking back can have a way of motivating for bold decision making at the present time. PD's are powerful manipulators and along with guilt, they impose fear on their victims. Combined, those can be debilitating to taking self-protective measures, but the IDD cycle and drama triangle 🔺 behaviors most always deliver the nonPD and children back to living in abuse.

Taking a final bold stance on self protection takes courage to step into the unknown, but turning unknowns to knowns is very powerful for the nonPD and the PD desires we dont discover the first unknown which leads to the second, third and so on.

When I finally took the bold step and walked away from abuse, I only had to experience turning the first unknown to a known. That success gave me power for the second, and the second even more power for subsequent unknowns. I steadily kept turning them and found out that the PD's front-end guilt and fear stronghold quickly collapsed and that I was being kept behind the tall walls of control by fear, obligation and guilt, so that the PD wouldn't have to take care of themselves, and I could not see the truth outside the walls.

Again, I encourage you to look back at your posts and step boldly forward into unknown number one in your plan of self protection for yourself and children. You are not alone. Many here, including myself, are currently converting unknowns to knowns ahead of you on the same trail. You can do this with us.

SoT

PlantFlowersNotWeeds · June 22, 2023, 06:42:57 AM

My exPD made many threats and used my fear to try and control the situation.

None of his threats came true and I was able to push through my fear. It was hard, but I did it.

My son lives with me, and our relationship is rocky - partly from the divorce. Even with this, I see many more positives in his deposition than when we all lived together. He is starting to see his father more clearly out of the family dynamic. He's blaming me a little less every day.

Good Luck.

Crushed · June 29, 2023, 05:26:11 PM

Clarityneeded, I'm in a similar spot as you.

I tried to leave my PDH and he convinced me to give him 6mo time to work on him.

Almost two weeks later, the blame game began.

We even tried couples counseling which just gave him more weapons to tell me when I'm doing it wrong.

While I commend him for changing some things, overall he refuses to take responsibility for his part in things.

When I told him today im giving up on us, he immediately begged for more time to change.

What's helped me is journaling to see the patterns. Making a quick list of his abusive traits also helps. Otherwise I'm prone to get sucked back in by promises.
Hang in there!

escapingman · June 30, 2023, 03:48:22 AM

I gave XW many chances to change, for every time it took her less time to get back to her usual and even worse. What really helped me was that I started to write down everything she did (or didn't do) and then started to record incidents followed by keeping the phone recording all day long. This helped me enormously as if I ever doubted myself I only needed to open my document and read for a couple of minutes and my mind was straight again. If I ever really got into doubt I just listened to one of the worse recordings and there was no doubt in my mind.