Time to Respond

[UnNegated]

My Initial Post

This is a follow up to my post on my UDPDM's recent visit and my response to how she acted in front of my son and treated me afterward.  The executive summary is that she blew up in front of my son and insulted his mother in front of him over a box of missing Duplo blocks that she once gave as a gift.  I confronted her directly about her behavior as well as manipulation and abuse around gift giving and the argument ended at a low simmer.  Her visit lasted seven days beyond that, and I basically had to endure the silent treatment from her whenever my son was not in the room.  For his sake, I kept my cool until she left.  Of course she left but she was still here.  In my head.  In the tension my body is carrying.  In the programming that says crossing her or setting binderies with her will not end well.

So now I am going to follow up on her visit and set boundaries.  She has always told me in the past that no child has a right to set boundaries with their parent.  "I would never have done that to my parents."  My boundaries will be that I no longer want her to stay with me when she visits here (she will never get a hotel) and that I no longer wish to receive gifts from her.  I will stay with my sousing when I visit down there, and go and see her during the day so that my son and I can leave if things go South.  I am also going to be very direct and detailed about the behaviors she engaged in and consequences I experienced as a result of her narcissism.  She will not like it.  She will likely get quite nasty, and it could very well end up with no contact.  I am going to give her the freedom to hear me, even though I know she is incapable of doing so because she is UDPD.

So I am preempitevly going through all the stress and wading through all the programming that makes doing this so challenging.  I am reclaiming my own power and setting completely reasonable boundaries, but we all know how that will be received.  It is still incredibly important that I do so.  I have had two other periods when I have gone NC with her.  One lasted about a year and another lasted two.  She is 79 now, so the age and health component is real.  Her support where she lives is waning and her ability to be independent is as well.  She is intentionally self-isolating.  And yet I can't own any of that.

It sucks.

[Poison Ivy]

Hi. I read your other post, too. I think that generally, it doesn't make sense to decide to continue a personal relationship if the decision is based on the hope or expectation that financial gain (in your case, you and your son receiving money from your mom when she dies) will result.

There are a few reasons, including the following: (1) There is no guarantee that any money will be left by the time your mom dies. (2) If you decide to stay in the relationship because of the money, your mom could reasonably expect something in return from you, such as you taking care of her as her health and functioning worsen. (3) Your mom has treated you and other family members badly, and it could be uncomfortable for you to tell the other family members, "The reason I'm not cutting off contact with mom is money."

I think it's okay to go no contact with family members, even old, sick family members. But try to take the hope for an inheritance out of the equation as you decide how to proceed.

[UnNegated]

I think it's okay to go no contact with family members, even old, sick family members. But try to take the hope for an inheritance out of the equation as you decide how to proceed.

I agree completely.  I have realized for quite some time that my feelings, and resentment, about his are what have been blocking me from making healthy decisions.  The only way is through, and that means letting go and believing that in making healthy choices good will come my way in the long run.  It is not worth compromising myself or my son for.

[Hilltop]

Sounds like you are focusing on implementing healthy boundaries and I hope you feel more peace around that. The only one I would mention is the gifts.  We can't control others and although you can mention that you don't want gifts you can't force someone to stop giving them.  I have found it's easier if someone wants to give to accept graciously and then re-gift or donate.  Telling a PD to stop giving gifts can be like waving a red flag in front of a bull.

It does suck but it can be freeing when you reach a point of telling them how you feel and letting them choose how they respond.  At some point their response has to be their own, we can't change them and fully accepting that is freeing. 

[moglow]

If it helps at all, you don't have to spell out your boundaries and cover every contingency with her ahead of time - live them as you go and find your own peace. You don't have to have the big head on collision you're/we're all dreading.

When faced with "this is the way this will be" at time of next incident, your mother is presented with a clear choice in how she proceeds in that moment. There's no need for a huge debate or what if throw down session. She can respect your decision or request, or she can be mad and push back. She gets to make that choice just as you get to choose how you will proceed if/when she bucks it. In reality, she does make that choice regardless.

Mine would blow up at what she saw as my rules or demands, while throwing down dozens of her own. She was like yours, I had no right as her child to have any boundaries or even opinions of my own. She trampled over everyone and everything that didn't go her way. I had to learn to take a hard step back and just stop, say No when needed without explanations or justification for my decisions. It just IS and as it will be going forward. I learned to end contentious conversations when needed and without apology for ending it.

It's not easy. No one wants to face that charging bull but sometimes it's necessary. To disrespect you in your own home with your family present? No. She needs to find another way.

[UnNegated]

I have found it's easier if someone wants to give to accept graciously and then re-gift or donate.

With emotionally regulated people, I would agree with this. In the case of my mother, gift giving is how she obtains narcissistic supply.  She schemes the gift, an idealized image of how the gift will be used, an idealized image of how she will be "thanked" for the gift, and then monitors how the gift is used for eternity.  It is an entire process.  In this case, the Duplo blocks were a gift from four yeas ago, and my son has outgrown them.  His mom took them to her work where they would be used more often and more appropriately instead of collecting dust, and that sent my mom into the rage that became our fight.  She once destroyed her relationship with my step-kids because they did not "thank her properly" for the new bedrooms she insisted on building in our house when we didn't want or ask for them.  And mind you I did thank her, but she conveniently forgot or told me it wasn't good enough.  So it is more complicated than it may seem on the surface.

It does suck but it can be freeing when you reach a point of telling them how you feel and letting them choose how they respond.  At some point their response has to be their own, we can't change them and fully accepting that is freeing.

This is the work I need to do and the leap of faith I need to take.

[moglow]

Her impression of what gifting means doesn't have to be yours. She may have purchased with strings attached but relinquished all "rights" when she gave it. If she has conditions that's all on her and you don't have to answer for them. Mine has been known to push some of the same stuff on me, up to literally going through bags of items for donation and pulling out things she gave me. So I get it.

[NarcKiddo]

In terms of boundaries I generally agree with those who say that many boundaries can be enforced by you without ever having to be communicated.

That said, I think it is sensible to inform her that she is no longer welcome to stay in your home. It is a very practical point. I can see why you might wish to inform her not to send gifts but does that not then obligate you to return them? Some PDs would take the opportunity to send all manner of stuff just to put you to the hassle, and in the process "prove" to themselves how kind they are and how ungrateful you are.

I can understand why you might choose to point out her unacceptable behaviours. I'm not so sure you will gain much by telling her what the consequences were for you. At best she probably won't care. At worst she will take note of what hurts you and find other ways to achieve the same result. Middle ground she will belittle you for saying how she hurt you and will minimise her behaviour. You may get all manner of "you're oversensitive" or "you misunderstood" or similar. It's exhausting. But clearly if you feel the need to do so then give it a try.

I wish you all the best.

[moglow]

That said, I think it is sensible to inform her that she is no longer welcome to stay in your home. It is a very practical point.

Oh yeah - you/mom want to invite yourself for a visit [and be rude to your hosts yet again], then you can jolly well arrange your own accommodations. There are a couple of nice B&B or hotels nearby we've heard recommended ... When she blows about how awful that is: "I understand. So you'll let me know when you visit [our town] some other time then? We'll be glad to meet you for lunch/dinner/activity with grandson, and you're always more than welcome to meet us at his ball game/concert/other activity." But invitation to your home for abuse behind closed doors? Nah thanks, we'll pass.

You know how it's been and how unacceptable it is for you and how it affects your family as a whole. You get to decide going forward how to prevent and, if needed, cut it off. Making those baby steps make the giant steps easier later, it's just a process to get there.

[Cat of the Canals]

Sending you all the good strong boundary vibes, UnNegated.

I can see why you might wish to inform her not to send gifts but does that not then obligate you to return them?

Why not just donate them? I'm sure the local resale shop will be delighted to receive his mother's gifts. That's what I do with almost all of the gifts my PDmil gives me.

[Hilltop]

UnNegated, yep gifts can be tricky with PD personalities. My MIL and mother have used gifts in different ways and I tried unsuccessfully to navigate this however the thing is, it's just a game.  I was watching Jerry Wise youtube vid's and he explained the tennis court.  One side is their side of the court, their side of the net, their stuff, their responsibility and the other side of the court and net is your stuff, the net is the divider between that.  You need to take care of your side of the net, not theirs.  If your mum is angry you gave toys away, her side of the net, if she is angry she didn't get thanked properly - her side of the net, if your step child decides about their relationship with your mum - step child's side of the net, step child dealing with hurt regarding treatment by your mum - as it's a child this does fall into your side of the net to be a support and help them learn to regulate emotions, deal with emotions etc.  How you respond to your mum's complaints - your side of the net.  I found the way he explained it as helpful in reminding myself where I was getting drawn into other people's stuff.

My MIL when she heard me say no to gifts due to a host of issues tripled down on her efforts and gave me more and more and more. It ended when I just took whatever said a bland thanks, then threw it out, donated it.  No supply given.  Funnily enough once it was no longer an issue or boundary it must have become boring for her and she stopped. I recently said I was happily decluttering and you guessed it, the second hand shop house decorations started being given again.  I just say thanks and throw out, donate.  It's just a game to them.

The thing is this is just how PD's get us drawn in and engaging with their drama.  If gifts didn't work it would be something else. Her schemes and idealized images are her business and this is where it's great to start introducing those boundaries. Leave her schemes with her. However it may be easier for you due to distance to reject things more easily and if you find a boundary which works for you that's all that matters, I suppose just don't get drawn into an argument regarding it as we can't control them and when my MIL or mother heard no, you guessed it, it became a challenge for how much they could get away with and so other boundaries worked better.

I guess it will be a learning process for which boundaries are going to work for you.  Whatever her response is to those boundaries is remember her side of the net.

[NarcKiddo]

Sending you all the good strong boundary vibes, UnNegated.

I can see why you might wish to inform her not to send gifts but does that not then obligate you to return them?

Why not just donate them? I'm sure the local resale shop will be delighted to receive his mother's gifts. That's what I do with almost all of the gifts my PDmil gives me.

I agree with donating unwanted gifts, of course. But if I said to my mother "do not send gifts" [by way of a boundary rather than "we have all we need, there is really no expectation of gifts, so don't go to the trouble"] she would send extra gifts to violate the boundary. And if I did not return them she would take that as a sign that her boundary violation had been successful. I fully realise that is on her, but if she can violate one boundary (in her eyes) what is to prevent her then making attempts on another boundary that I would find harder to deal with? That was my train of thought. I think that is why I find express boundaries rather tough to deal with and avoid them where reasonably possible.