Holilday trouble

[walking on broken glass]

Apologies for the repeated posts. I have a question. A friend asked me whether I have ever talked to my sister about the things that bother me, so that I make my case clear and so that she knows where I stand. The truth is I have never had a 'this is what I think' conversation with her: in the past we had arguments (well, she picked arguments with me and I defended myself), she did not apologize, and then we were back in touch. I gradually started putting distance and boundaries in place, which were eventually solidified in very low contact. Do you think I should have had it out with her? I can't even imagine how this would work but my friend's suggestion made me feel a bit guilty, as if I would appear unreasonable to block her without an explanation.

[Cat of the Canals]

People who don't have intimate experience with PDs rarely understand what it's truly like to deal with them. The depths of their entitlement, the denial, the lack of rationality. They believe that all of the standard advice about clear communication and healthy boundaries will work the way it would with any old person. We know better.

I mean, just the fact that you phrased it "had it out with her" speaks volumes. Not "discussed our relationship like rational adults" or "tried to come to a place of mutual understanding." And to be clear, I think I've used that exact phrasing myself about my mother, so I know why you chose those words.

I have never had any such conversation with my mother and doubt I ever will. I know how it would go: BADLY. Unless, that is, I were to throw myself at her feet and beg forgiveness for being such a terrible daughter. Any suggestion that we share responsibility in our lack of closeness would be interpreted by my mother as an attack. I truly believe she is incapable of finding fault in herself, and therefore incapable of taking responsibility. She has never apologized, ever. Absolutely nothing productive would come from "having it out with her," other than perhaps a sense of accomplishment for having spoken my piece.

My guess is you could compile a very long list of the times you set a simple boundary and your sister reacted poorly or ignored it. It's not hard to extrapolate from there what her reaction might be if you said, "I need rest and would appreciate if you didn't contact me for a while." I doubt it would be simply complying with your request, which is what a non-PD would do.

[walking on broken glass]

It is true, this advice applies to people who are not PDs. I was thinking that it would actually be like trying to reason with a bully: only harm can come of this. In the thousands of episodes I had with my sister, not once did she say she was wrong or apologize. She never assumed any kind of responsibility for the relationship. And she never asked me why I don't want to have a relationship with her either. She only pushes and runs over me like a bulldozer. So, yes, you are right. There is nothing productive in a conversation. It's not a matter of explaining. Most days all one can do is damage control.

[walking on broken glass]

My dad is still in hospital and my mum manages ok at home on her own. She has actually admitted to me that she can sleep better now that my dad is not there and she doesn't have to worry about looking after him. Dad has improved a bit but still complains that he doesn't feel 100% and cannot breathe. The doctor says that unfortunately he will have to live with the breathing problems, as they will never go away. It was already like that for my dad but it might have got a bit worse and he has no patience, nor the will to fight it. I called him yesterday and he was complaining that this is not a life worth living, and then he was playing the blame game. He said that my mum shouldn't have had her surgery in the middle of winter because if she had it at spring this wouldn't have happened. Then he was asking me about the people sitting next to me on the plane and whether they were wearing a mask (implying of course that I brought covid with me from the flight). He was going on about how I tried to do a good thing by going over there to help them but look how it ended! And he escaped covid for four years only to get it now. He was also trying to guilt trip me by saying how sorry he feels about my mum who is on her own and is not well. I assured him that she is doing fine but he dismissed this and said "I know she is not well". The best part: I had given him a quick call on Saturday when I was out for a work dinner to see how he was doing and he said "you had too much makeup on. You shouldn't put so much make up. What does your partner say about that?"
I love him and I feel sorry for him but I don't want to be on the receiving end of such spiralling. It is interesting that he tries to put the blame for what happened on anyone but himself, when I was constantly telling him to put his mask on and he refused to do so. Not that someone is to blame for this situation - sometimes you have to accept that sh*t happens and it can't be helped - but it is interesting that he examines the behaviour of everyone but himself. I think I won't be calling frequently even though my mum says he complains if I don't call and he also asks her whether I call her every day. Talk about need for control...

[sandpiper]

Wow, that's quite the three-ring circus they've got going on.
I'm just going to echo what others have said, nons have no clue what we deal with and your friend is making all sorts of assumptions about how things work in situations she's familiar with. You're down the PD rabbit-hole where the one consistent feature is 'no good deed goes unpunished.'
I think if you reflect on your communications with your sister and ask yourself, when has she shown an interest in you, offered empathy, remembered something that is important, etc etc, that list will be low, unless there's something in it for her.
My therapist taught me to deal with mother's FOO by saying 'Always test the water first - try the small thing with them to see how they react before you drop the big thing on them.'
It's pretty standard for most children in PD families to grow up so brainwashed by the FOG that they have no idea it's not normal or healthy, and everyone ends up completely pushed out of shape by having to accommodate all the crazy.
What works to navigate disordered parents when you are a child will inevitably end up being an unhealthy set of responses and behaviours that you carry into your adult life. You've got your stuff, your sister has hers, & it sounds like she's so heavily enmeshed with them that she's probably unlikely to see the behaviour clearly.

It's rotten luck that you all got covid but I do think it gives you a potential 'out' for avoiding Xmas. There are so many other horrible bugs that can travel around on planes that it just might not be a good idea to risk everyone getting another infection while you are all still recovering from Covid.
Seriously.
Both of DH's parents died in the last couple of years and we've both been feeling a lot of regret about just how much we allowed them to dominate our lives with their drama...and however much we gave into them, it was always because of the threat that if they didn't get what they wanted, they'd do something far worse.
Whatever you decide about Xmas, I think it's worth finding a T who understands PD behaviour and working on some goals about how to exctricate yourself from being lured back in to the drama.
It takes so much hard work.

When I think what DH and I could have been doing if there hadn't been so much drama...I like what Mo said about how a hoover doesn't work unless you plug it in.

[walking on broken glass]

Thank you, sandpiper
It does take a lot of work. I first started getting a realization that there is something wrong with my family when I went abroad to study. Since then it's been 15 years, and I still find myself making new realizations and discoveries. It never ends.

What works to navigate disordered parents when you are a child will inevitably end up being an unhealthy set of responses and behaviours that you carry into your adult life.

This is so so true. Thank god for therapy! I only meet with my therapist once a month now but it helps knowing she is there.

My therapist taught me to deal with mother's FOO by saying 'Always test the water first - try the small thing with them to see how they react before you drop the big thing on them.'

This also describes my experience with my FOO. Anything I have to share, I do it gradually and tentatively, and only share things I know will come to light eventually. For instance, I am starting a new job in July and will have to move to another country temporarily. I have known this for a year now but have not said anything to them. I can't face the questions and the anxiety.

We have decided to go there for Christmas and stay in an AirBnB. I am hoping it will be nice to walk around the city and meet up with friends. If parents cause trouble, I am ready to put boundaries in place. It will be a good test to determine future visits.

[goldtracedcloud]

This is such great advice on this thread.  & Right there with you when it comes to stressing about the holidays.  Just wanted to add something I do that's a little helpful for me, which is just repeating a short mantra like "boundaries are good, boundaries are healthy" to myself when feeling overwhelmed or guilty about setting them.  These PD's and their enablers really make us feel like healthy/normal things are the most terrible things in the world.   

[walking on broken glass]

I spoke to my parents yesterday. Our visit is imminent and I am already getting stressed. But I try to focus on the nice things we can do, the friends I want to see and the fact we will be staying on our own. Still, I would have much preferred to stay here.

My mum is slowly recovering from her hip replacement surgery and my dad is out of the hospital but now needs his oxygen supply pretty much all the time. He has taken this really badly. On the one hand, I feel sorry for him and I realize it's not easy. On the other hand, he does not make the slightest effort to help himself. He just feels sorry for himself and keeps saying that he is going to die or that he should have died etc. When we spoke he said he is going to talk to the doctor about a portable oxygen tank but he is not sure he should get because he will die soon anyway. Then he said that he has been thinking about his life, all the struggles he had to face and how it all amounted to this, to the two of them being alone in a flat. And that when my mum was unwell they were helpless.

This is all unbelievably annoying and triggering for me. He should be happy it is the two of them - other people have no-one - and you don't have children so that they are glued to you when you get older. Plus, when my mum was in surgery I did go there to help, and when I left there was a network of relatives that helped them too. And they don't have any financial difficulties so they could even pay for professional help, if needed. His perspective is so skewed.

I always thought my dad had narcissistic tendencies but the older he gets I wonder whether himself is undiagnosed NPD.
I hadn't called them for a few days and he sent me messages with sad emojis ('poor me!') - not even words - to get me to call, secret from my mum of course. I told him yesterday to speak to a mental health professional to help him with intrusive thoughts but of course there is no way he will speak to 'a stranger'. I then tried to change the subject and distract him, which worked, and I cut the conversation short.

This all doesn't make the prospect of visiting heartwarming. I feel sorry for them, especially my mum who is subjected to all this, but I can't help, at least not the way he wants me to. There is a tough conversation I will need to have with them at some point that has to do with property and inheritance: they want to leave everything shared in half between my sister and me which is madness and makes my hair stand, and I want to insist on splitting everything so that we know who owns what. We already had a conversation about this in the past and I was the only one to push for this, and did not prevail. But I want to bring it up again because future will be hellish if this arrangement stands. I am just so tired of needing to have a conversation every time I go back and having to prepare for it. It might not be the same topic but it is always a tough conversation that needs to be had, when it should be a relaxing holiday time. I wish this wasn't the case.

[Cat of the Canals]

...and you don't have children so that they are glued to you when you get older.

Right? Have you ever read anything about Borderline Personality Disorder? He sounds like my waif/hermit BPD mother-in-law. The universe is so unfair to her, and yet she never really does anything to improve her lot. Just expects good fortune to land in her lap. 

[walking on broken glass]

I was so focused on my sister who is definitely uBPD that I didn't consider my dad's case! I think he is more narcissistic than borderline. Getting older makes things worse too.