MIL is demanding I return her gifts

[mustard_seed]

I've been NC with In-Law's for almost 2 years, DH still sees them regularly, but has pretty good boundaries and is supportive of my NC with them.

Today, ahead of their holiday dinner tomorrow night, PD-MIL says something like: if mustard seed doesn't want to be part of this family, she can give back the bridal gifts I gave her (jewelry).

For me, honestly, no problem. I'm not going to react badly. I'll just give the jewelry back to husband to take to their dinner tomorrow night. I'm mildly surprised  but not shocked. It just seems so so childish, not like the Machiavellian behavior I remember. Maybe I see it differently now that I'm NC and in much more peace.

The shocking part is husband's reaction, he says something like: I think she's doing this to try to cause problems between you and me at the holidays. And I'm not going to put up with it.

I think he's contemplating NC after this, or if she creates additional drama at dinner tomorrow night. She's been having medical issues though, so I doubt he'll actually go through with it. He worries about her a lot. But he's definitely having a fog-lifting moment.

JUST WOW. Anyone else had a similar situation? Or going through holiday drama and just need to vent about it?

[moglow]

Sounds like doomed if you do (drama!), doomed of you dont (more drama). Just a lose lose proposition all the way around. I'd prob do same, just give it back without another word, remove that argument for future. If she's like others who come to mind she'll say she meant this piece not that one or something is missing or damaged. Hopefully dh can give it to her and keep going without more big drama. Me, I'd stop her on the way out, ask her to wait a second while I go get something for her. Then I'd hand it to her and go. 

[SonofThunder]

The shocking part is husband's reaction, he says something like: I think she's doing this to try to cause problems between you and me at the holidays. And I'm not going to put up with it.

I think he's contemplating NC after this...

I think he should be angry, as his mother only asked for her gifted jewelry back, but not her son back as well!  Mustard-seed, it's both easy to see her childishness, and also that your really valuable jewel has always been the man who chose you over his mother. 

SoT

[mustard_seed]

Sounds like doomed if you do (drama!), doomed of you dont (more drama). Just a lose lose proposition all the way around. I'd prob do same, just give it back without another word, remove that argument for future. If she's like others who come to mind she'll say she meant this piece not that one or something is missing or damaged. Hopefully dh can give it to her and keep going without more big drama. Me, I'd stop her on the way out, ask her to wait a second while I go get something for her. Then I'd hand it to her and go.

Yeah, I think it's fair to assume she'll add more drama to the mix somehow! I like your idea about handing off the jewelry at the end to minimize exposure to that. I know DH is now really dreading this dinner and I feel for him. I'll pass your advice along to him... maybe it will help.

[mustard_seed]

I think he should be angry, as his mother only asked for her gifted jewelry back, but not her son back as well!  Mustard-seed, it's both easy to see her childishness, and also that your really valuable jewel has always been the man who chose you over his mother. 

SoT

Ha! Well, I wonder whether she's still under some delusion that she can sabotage our marriage/bring him back into the fold of his "true" family somehow. But yes he's definitely angry--he was explicit about that when he told me about this mess.

And yes, thank you, he IS a gem of a man!! I never wanted him to have to choose me but it does indeed seem to be coming down to that and I know that's not on me.

[SeaBreeze]

When I was married to ex-uNPDh #1 (we divorced over 25 years ago), ex-uNPDmil loaned us a dining table and a dryer until we could get our own. Anytime he or I would set boundaries MIL didn't like, she'd snip "Well maybe I should take my table back" or "Maybe I should charge you for use of the dryer." Ex-H would often capitulate to her (he was her Golden Child but could easily be Scapegoated too). I continued holding my ground. I wasn't exactly going to be held emotionally hostage over a dining table?!? Eventually, we gave her back the dryer, and told her she could take the damned table too while we were at it. She never did take the table back until the divorce, 5 years after she "loaned" it to us. It really was a my bat, my ball, childlike mentality on ex-MIL's part!

As for holiday drama, it was a particularly bad Christmas tantrum from ex-MiL, leading to a very bad but revealing argument between myself and ex-H, that sparked my decision to get my kids away from that whole PD family and, a few months after fleeing them, end marriage to 1st H. It wasn't the only reason, but that last dramatic Christmas with them was certainly the catalyst to get the heck out!

Your H sounds a lot stronger than my ex-H. A true gift indeed!

[Leonor]

Hello mustard lovely seed!

I am going to take an odd angle on this:

No.

Whomever the giver, and whatever the motive, and from wherever the origin, no one has the right to demand that you hand over anything of yours.

And I think there is a price to pay if you do:

You acknowledge her communication (breaking NC), cede to her wishes (by relinquishing something of yours), disempower yourself (by obeying her demand) and place your husband in a flying monkey role between the two of you (by turning him into her delivery boy.)

This may make your dh uncomfortable because he will have to tell his mother "No," and may feel like he has to choose between his mother and his wife.

That's not your problem. You didn't set this up. His mother did, and did so looong before you entered the picture.

And it's your husband's opportunity to step into his role as a life partner and adult, and recognize that his mother can hear the word "No" and the world will not fall apart. He may even feel stronger and more self assured once he does so.

If you don't want the jewelry, that's fine. Save it or your children or grandchildren. Or sell it. But delivering it to the MIL is just returning her serve. Let everyone know you don't play.

[moglow]

Oh wow, I'd not thought of it that way Leonor! We don't go around stomping and demanding return of gifts because we refuse to treat others with respect!! That's just beyond petty on so many levels. I'd thought to return them just to put paid to her nonsense, knowing she'll likely shoot holes in that too anyway. 

Putting down the racket indeed. The ball stops where it lands, no game. 

[NarcKiddo]

I agree with Leonor.

A gift is a gift. Unless it was made conditionally, ownership passes to you when the gift is made and it is not for MIL to demand its return. It does not matter whether the occasion of the gift is a marriage, birth, birthday or whatever.

For example, in my country, although many people return their engagement ring when breaking an engagement, there is no obligation to do so unless the ring was given conditional on the marriage eventually taking place.

I am glad your husband is being supportive of you. That is as it should be.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yeah, nope. Nice try. She very likely is trying to stir up drama between you and DH, but that's obviously backfiring on her. Good. You are NC and pay no more attention to her witchy demands than they deserve. Which you have rightly decided is none whatsoever. Merry Christmas to you and DH.

[bloomie]

mustard_seed - It seems your mil sees the gift of jewelry to her son's beloved bride as down payment that obligates you to fulfill certain duties and be present as she wishes. Hmmmm...and if you do not fulfill those duties and make a command appearance you must return the jewelry.

Your mil is not in control here, though it would seem she is grappling for it by acting in a petty, ugly, way toward you and attempting to put your DH in the middle. Seems like she is itching for some drama and emotional pay off.

In a very similar situation here is what I did, if it is of any help to you. After years of this kind of ugliness toward me, with gifts "recalled", being accused of having taken gifts intended for others (I wish I was kidding, but this happened and of course wasn't true, but was said in public and I was humiliated), labeled ungrateful, etc., mil sent a sandwich bag (yes, sandwich bag) of odds and ends jewelry home with DH "for me" after a round of high drama as she distributed 'the crown jewels' to others in her family. 

I gave it away. And let the chips fall where they may. No justifying, arguing, defending or explaining. DH and I went completely silent.

Recently, after mil's passing sil, who is cut from the same cloth says to me, as she was leaving her mother's hoard for us to deal with having loaded up all that she wanted, indicated cases and cases of butt ugly costume jewelry: "Don't go just giving this away without going through it carefully. I've gone through it and there are a few valuable pieces still in there."  Ummm... put it all in sandwich baggies and donated it. Game. Point. Match.

Do what YOU want to do. Do what gives you peace. Whatever that is. Don't let whatever ugly intention your mil may have cast a second of shadow over your life and relationship with your gem of a guy! There is empowerment in returning it and keeping and giving it away. You choose!! And we are right here cheering you on!!! 

[Cat of the Canals]

Sounds like doomed if you do (drama!), doomed of you dont (more drama). Just a lose lose proposition all the way around. I'd prob do same, just give it back without another word, remove that argument for future.

100% agree. I suspect she thought this would be something that would surely get you back in line. And as usual, it's a win-win scenario for her. Either you're so desperate to keep this precious jewelry (yeah right) that you come crawling back. She wins. Or you ignore her demands and keep the jewelry, and she can paint you as selfish/greedy/shallow/etc. She wins. Or you comply and returned the jewelry, and she can paint you as cold/vindictive/ungrateful/etc. Guess that makes it win-win-win.

I'd be inclined to give the jewelry back, because I can't imagine I'd want to keep something from someone like this, but Leonor has a point. Once a gift is given, that's that. It's yours to decide what you want to do with it. Your MIL is likely going to use this as smear fodder no matter what you do.

So maybe I'd take a note from bloomie and get rid of the jewelry another way. If it's worth anything, sell it and buy yourself something nice that isn't tainted with your MIL's spitefulness. 

[mustard_seed]

Thank you guys & gals for all of your thoughts and feedback. Hearing that other people have had items recalled and used for manipulative boundary-busting purposes helps. I'm able to just laugh at the absurdity of it. Wow, the stuff we deal with, huh?

In the end I gave the jewelry to DH and he gave it back to MIL at dinner last night. I know it's somewhat of a break in NC like Leonor pointed out. I think I'm OK with it in this one instance because I'm not attached to the jewelry--I'm not breaking a boundary that's of core importance to me. But I appreciate all of the different perspectives and angles. It's important to stay vigilant about boundaries.

As far as the jewels... it was a few old pieces of costume jewelry (I'm with you Bloomie--not my style!), one "heirloom" piece from MIL's family and a new pair of diamond earrings MIL bought for me before our wedding. I've actually thought of selling or bartering the diamonds, so aside from losing a few hundred dollars in value, it's no skin off my nose. Jewelry is very personal for me and I usually think of the person who gave it to me or what it means to me when I put it on. Diamonds that MIL bought, said "welcome to *our* family" when she gave them to me and then pretty much told me she expected me to wear at our wedding even though I'd already chosen all of my bridal jewelry. Nope!

That's just it-- there's clearly something symbolic about this jewelry for her. And for me I think giving it back is another little inch of freedom. It's not sitting in a drawer somewhere here where I'll run across it and have false guilt about her. Even if I had sold the earrings, I think I would have worried that DH thought me cold for it. (I know, I shouldn't worry what he thinks. But I do...) Now, it's just out of my hands and a non-issue!

She may well paint me as cold and ungrateful for giving it back like Cat said. But yeah it's lose-lose-lose anyway, so I guess that's the one I'm OK with. Let her think she's won and can still command her son to do what she wants. She's revealed a lot about herself in the past two years since I went NC.

DH gave the jewelry back at the end of their dinner last night, where MIL promptly opened all the boxes and inspected everything under the light (at a nice restaurant!) and apparently she tried to send one piece back because it wasn't one she had specifically requested that I return. DH just said "No," and slid the box back across the table, got up and said Merry Christmas and came home.

[Cat of the Canals]

DH gave the jewelry back at the end of their dinner last night, where MIL promptly opened all the boxes and inspected everything under the light (at a nice restaurant!) and apparently she tried to send one piece back because it wasn't one she had specifically requested that I return. DH just said "No," and slid the box back across the table, got up and said Merry Christmas and came home.

Good god. Sometimes I give my PD mother credit for being able to behave herself in public. She would never do something like that in a restaurant. Then I remember it's only because she's obsessed with appearances and thus sneakier about revealer her inner ickiness. She's just as petty and vindictive once you're alone with her. Thank goodness your husband knows what he's dealing with.

[moglow]

Good for him! Had she not specifically requested it now, you can bet it would come up later as if you should somehow know she *meant* this piece not that one. But to pick through them at the dinner table while all activity stopped. Deliver us from the petty. 

[Rose1]

Years ago when my daughter was in her teens my expdmil sent a message with exbpdh to his daughter to give back some gift so she could give it to another child.
This was so grossly hurtful and nasty I didn't even think about it, I just said not a chance. Once something is given it's no longer your property and I didn't want my d to get the idea that this sort of behaviour was normal.

Under the circumstances I felt it would be rewarding bad behaviour and sending the message to my d that it was ok for her to be treated like that. Obviously her f didn't have a problem with delivering the message.

If it had been something given to me I probably would have given it back (still fogged at the time) hoping she would get off my back, despite experience that it was unlikely. Exbpdh never stood up to her on our behalf and only stood up to her if it affected him in some way. Glad to be well out of that mess.

[mustard_seed]

Good god. Sometimes I give my PD mother credit for being able to behave herself in public. She would never do something like that in a restaurant. Then I remember it's only because she's obsessed with appearances and thus sneakier about revealer her inner ickiness. She's just as petty and vindictive once you're alone with her. Thank goodness your husband knows what he's dealing with.

Right?! My husband is definitely seeing things more clearly without me in the picture. I used to (out of reflex) try to smooth over some of her social faux pas like this.

Your mom is similar to mine re: keeping up appearances. I would go in and Out of the FOG a lot bc of that--just harder to keep my finger on the pulse of what was going on!

Good for him! Had she not specifically requested it now, you can bet it would come up later as if you should somehow know she *meant* this piece not that one. But to pick through them at the dinner table while all activity stopped. Deliver us from the petty. 

Exactly--I think he understood I just needed an end to this little saga and no more back and forth. I also think she was trying to make me look bad for sending back all of the pieces instead of just the two she mentioned. "Look how dramatic Mustard Seed is being. And wow, she doesn't want that piece I gave her of dear Aunt Betty's???!"

Years ago when my daughter was in her teens my expdmil sent a message with exbpdh to his daughter to give back some gift so she could give it to another child.
This was so grossly hurtful and nasty I didn't even think about it, I just said not a chance. Once something is given it's no longer your property and I didn't want my d to get the idea that this sort of behaviour was normal.

Under the circumstances I felt it would be rewarding bad behaviour and sending the message to my d that it was ok for her to be treated like that. Obviously her f didn't have a problem with delivering the message.

If it had been something given to me I probably would have given it back (still fogged at the time) hoping she would get off my back, despite experience that it was unlikely. Exbpdh never stood up to her on our behalf and only stood up to her if it affected him in some way. Glad to be well out of that mess.

What a strong, wise, protective parental figure your daughter has in you!! Interesting you say you were able to say No and set that boundary for her even back when you still might have returned something if MIL had demanded it of you and not your daughter. It reminds me to think of my own inner child and be protective of her, too. Thanks for sharing your story