Responding without fear and guilt

[Eternal Ocean]

So as I learn more, watch more of Dr. Ramani, and read threads on here, I'm starting to see the FOG that I have been living under for 20 years!  It's been very eye-opening, and I've been doing a lot of inner observation on my responses to unNPD husband.  I want to learn how to respond without fear of his reprisals or guilt about decisions I make. I just want to learn to get stronger so I'm not in such anxiety all the time. 

Case in point exchange from this morning - we have a few sheep and goats, and my husband, who is very controlling about money, traded 2 round hay bales a few months ago with a friend of his for some lessons he gave them (so he did not have to pay for them).  This was supposed to get us through the winter. I have found these were slightly musty when I broke into them and I'm not comfortable feeding them to our pregnant sheep and the goats.  When I mentioned this, I got comments like "so they are not good enough for you".  So I took it upon myself to search on facebook market place and found a local dealer who has square bales (easier for me to manage), and I organised to pick them up tomorrow afternoon.  I will need help getting the trailer fixed to one of our vehicles (husband usually does this).  I told my husband matter of factly this morning of these plans.  His first response was walking out the room and shutting the door with no response (just a huffy attitude).  They he came back and started berating me "I thought you had no money"..."you can't pay the car insurance, but have money for this"...etc.  So I just responded, "no, I don't have much money, but I don't want the animals to get sick."  I suggested we perhaps rehome the animals if we can't afford to pay for good feed (probably not a good response - defending myself, explaining myself, i.e going DEEP), to which he responded, "yes, we can do that, if YOU want to" (blaming me).  I just said then that I just wanted to make sure they are healthy and we feed them good quality feed. The conversation ended there.  He will probably stew about it some more and I will get more comments of me being fussy, nothing he does is ever good enough, etc. 

So what is better is that I did not stew about making this decision, I just did it and organized it with the hay dealer, and stated my decision firmly.  The issue is dealing with the fallout of his comments.

How do you all deal with the day to day decisions and the fallout?  Could I have responded better, differently? 

I was also thinking of attending a group therapy session online.  Does anyone know of groups that do this that are along the lines of what Dr. Ramani teaches?   

[Eternal Ocean]

Hi user! 

Yes, I have read a few of your posts on the boards, and I relate a lot to what you are going through.  It sounds just like my experience with my husband! The fact that he actually has a PD is very new information for me, and it's starting to shine a light on years and years of my experience and why I'm feeling like I do, and seeing my own "care-taker" personality.   

Grey Rock was something I had learned a while ago to avoid highly charged conversations/arguments, I was doing this instinctively without knowing it, as a self-preservation technique. It does make me feel intensely lonely though, like you described in another thread.  Like I can never express myself truly, share who I am on a deep level.  I enjoy deep meaningful relationships with others, but my marriage just feels so shallow.  It's very sad. 

I will take a look at Dr. Les Carter, thank you for the suggestion! 

I always try to find the purpose for things that happen to us in this life, like why am I in this marriage?  What lesson should I be learning here?  I need to work on this strength of my convictions and firmly and politely standing my ground.  But there is turmoil inside, hopefully that will diminish with time.   

[Poison Ivy]

Eternal Ocean, thank you for taking care of the animals and not letting your husband's neglect cause them harm.

[notrightinthehead]

You did what you thought was right and by doing so, you kept your integrity. Be proud of yourself!
Your husband will berate you whatever you do, as soon as he might feel criticized in the slightest. Or have made a bad decision. Or just because he has a bad day or feels like it. It might help you if you tell yourself- this says more about him than it says about me. Think of him as a toddler having a temper tantrum. Emotionally distance yourself from him and find that serene spot inside you. You are the person who, in spite of difficulties, takes good care of her animals!

[Eternal Ocean]

Thank you - yes, the animals are very important to me! 

It does look like a temper tantrum, very emotionally immature.  What I notice is that a few hours later, he does settle down and accept my decision (sometimes).  Later yesterday evening, the subject was brought up again, and he was much more reasonable, and was agreeable that we should be careful in feeding hay that may have mold.   It's just that initial blow-up and the anxiety it causes me.  I should look at him like a toddler, that would  perhaps lighten the situation and make it somewhat comical! 

My issue is that when I need to make a decision that I know will go against his control, I get so worked up inside and I dread bringing it up to the point it affects my well being.  I don't know why I do this - such fear of his invalidation and disapproval. 

[notrightinthehead]

Because he behaves in an unreasonable, irrational, and abusive way. That's why you are scared. And maybe being scared make sure you behave in a meek way which encourages him to bully you more. The way out is to feel the fear and do it anyway. Just like you did in the example you wrote about. Well done!

[Poison Ivy]

 

[Eternal Ocean]

The way out is to feel the fear and do it anyway

Yes to this - I'm becoming more mindful of just doing/saying what is on my mind and what I want to do without feeling fear, shame, guilt, worried I'm being selfish etc.  I'm realizing that I am also part of this problem, I bottle up my feelings/desires until it turns to resentment and depression.   

[SeaBreeze]

Ugh, I feel ya. My stbx-uNPDh (passive-agrressive covert) would leave decisions up to me, then proceed to berate or punish me for making the wrong decision. This could be anything from deciding what restaurant to dine at, to negotiating terms of legal contracts. I spent years doing the eggshell dance around his approval or disapproval.

The last few years before I left him, I finally figured out he was going to gripe regardless, so I made it a point to make the decisions I wanted, with or without his input, and if he didn't like it, oh well. He could gripe or yell or fume or silent treatment me all he wanted, I didn't care anymore. I shrugged my shoulders and carried on, telling him once and once only that if he didn't like my decision then he should take care of it himself next time. It was very liberating to finally face and then let go of my fear of a middle-aged man who acts like a moody teenager. (Maybe raising 3 kids through their teen years helped? Lol sigh)

I completely understand your fear. I still feel it even post-separation several states away. But...Unless you are scared your partner will get physical or violent, my advice is do what you need to do. If he gets grumpy, I know it's not fun but...so what, it won't kill him (or you). Let him be grumpy, while you take responsibility for your own choices and go on about your day and life.

[Eternal Ocean]

@SeaBreeze, thank you!  Yup, your description is exactly how my husband operates, walking on eggshells around his approval or disapproval.  If I come to him with an idea or desire (example, switching the house thermostat up on really cold days), he just responds with "you can do what you want", and then berates me afterwards for wasting money on the electric bill. 

How long did it take you before you realized you needed to end the relationship?  I'm going between wanting to leave, to committing to work on myself through this so I can learn better patterns in my own life and not be such a "caregiver".  I feel like if I DON'T learn these lessons in this marriage, I am doomed to repeat them in any future relationships.  I'm also deeply Christian, so the pain of divorce is more acute.  Plus we have a 7 year old son, and the sadness of what that will put him through if we separate.  It's a very painful decision. 

[SeaBreeze]

How long did it take you before you realized you needed to end the relationship?

We were together 25 years total. We separated a few times over the years, but I always went back. Partly "for the kids". I know it was bad for them to grow up in that environment, but for various reasons it was better or easier to stay at that time. I definitely understand your painful dilemma.

I began seriously planning my exit strategy about 8 years ago. Reminding myself slow and steady wins the race, but prepared to leave quickly if the situation had gone hot. Finally left almost a year ago, shortly after the youngest kid left home, though a month sooner than officially planned because, well, I felt it was going hot.

Out of the FOG really helped get me through those last 7 years of the marriage, for both myself and youngest still at home, and equally has helped this past year post-separation. This forum and fellow members have been truly a God-send. I hope you will find what you need here. We are here for you at whatever stage of the relationship you are in. ❤️

[Eternal Ocean]

@SeaBreeze, thank you for explaining your experience.  I can understand the "staying for the kids" reason.  I truly believe that if it were not for our children, I would likely not be in this relationship.

Seven years ago, before I had any idea what a narcissistic relationship was, we had a second child - this was after the first 12 years of unhappiness and very little close contact. I just did not enjoy intimacy with my husband due to his critical, sarcastic personality, but we had a 12 year old son that we are both very committed to and I still believe having both parents available is very important.  So at this time, I really tried to work on the relationship, to be more intimate, and put all his faults to the side.  Nothing changed.  I dreaded being close to him, it just felt so wrong.  So now we have this weird relationship where we are in separate rooms in the same house,  we get along most of the time if I don't say anything that sets him off, and I'm just existing emotionally. 

We do try to get along and build a life together, but it's very shallow and I just feel like I'm pretending a lot of the time to be 'happy' and 'content' with my life when deep inside, I feel so unfulfilled.  So my youngest will be 8 this year, so I have at least 10 more years until he is independent. 

@user, may I ask how old your children are?  Have you discussed your plans to end the marriage with them at all, and do they understand what you are going through?  I know my older son, who is 19 now does understand, but I feel like I need to explain a lot to him now that I'm learning about NPD, and what impact it may have on his own development.  He mentioned to me that he will not bring his girlfriend over anymore due to the toxic ways my husband acts around the house. He was so embarrassed the last time she visited.  I also REALLY want to protect him from falling into a NPD relationship himself, as can happen when you have a NPD parent.

This "Out of the FOG" forum is very helpful.  It's been very eye opening to see that I'm certainly not alone!

[sunshine702]

The fear of the reaction.  Yep!!   I am going through that too.  I also get the complete not registering the perfectly reasonable explanation. I did this for a real reason I didn't just Wiley Nilly buy hay we don't need!! 

So I bought some driveway rock and boy did I hear about that too for a good month by mother and law and partner but it worked out in the end.  And I dared to get a second bid on the work and that   guy helped us with what the best internet is out here.  It got us started/ serious about the project.  And it was able to be used! 

I am having a real problem with not saying anything.  I was trying to get his input before buying items but everything is a yell.  I will stuff it down.  Say nothing say nothing say nothing then snap. Our toxic cycle.