Question about Malintent

Tryingtounderstand · January 19, 2024, 08:32:41 AM

Hi new here and i have a question about motives and what drives my SO who i believe has some degree of PD. I have struggled coming to terms with a lot if what i am feeling(anger, resentment, anxiety ect.) I am looking at my relationship through different colored lenses now analyzing everything i never saw in the past. We have been together almost ten years. This is someone i held in the highest regards with utmost repsect and love. I truly adore and care for this person deeply but something is off. My gut has been screaming at me for the last 4-6mo. A part of me feels i am being used or a means to an end. I dont know if anybody can relate. I have spent a considerable amount of time reading about PD and what comes with it. The internet likes to label and deem people like this broken. I still see them as human beings. Were talking about someone i love and that will never change even if we cant be together. No amount of validation will ease any of this for me. One of my biggest questions is about manipulation as this is where i have to draw the line. Most of what i have read are that people with a PD are manipulative. Is this true with every one suffering with this? I ask this because i have to protect myself. This has already taken a huge emotional, physical and financial toll. My story is long and complex like i am sure most of yours is. I am currently in therapy for myself and in couples therapy as well. I have probably handled everything so far incorrectly because of my inability to control my emotions as i don't understand this type of behavior. My SO was neglected and abused by her mother as well her siblings. I do believe there is some self awareness to some extent but i dont know exactly how much. I was raised by a single mom who took good care of me, showed me love and affection and i have tried to project those good qualities to no avail. I would be devastated if i was only seen as an object that could be used as a stepping stone to enhance someone eles life while sacrificing my own. Not knowing is the hardest part. Thanks

NBRiverGuy · January 19, 2024, 10:30:42 AM

Welcome to the boards Ttu. I'm pretty new here as well, but I have been given a lot of good, if difficult, advice. I have been with my wife for 23 years and married for 17. It wasn't until about 3 months ago that I opened my eyes to the fact that her issues were not "normal". It took a really good friend to point it out to me and a whole lot of internet research to begin to understand personality disorders and admit to myself that I was dealing with a vulnerable narcissist. I suggest reading through the Toolbox carefully several times. If you ask questions on this board, you will get some answers that are hard to swallow. Read them with an open mind and then go back to the toolbox and description of the various PDs on this website. There is no right or wrong way to do things, but there are definitely some tools that can make it easier to manage your relationship with this person. Lots of great support on this board. Lean into it. We are all dealing with some form of the same thing.

Tryingtounderstand · January 19, 2024, 03:28:27 PM

Thank you for the reply, much appreciated. I am not exactly new to the subject i have been educating myself over the past year and a half. Im am new to this community. Its great to have resources like this but on the flip side i wish i didnt know about any of this. Npd, pd, bpd were things i knew nothing about. I mean we all have our issues myself included but this is a whole other dimension. I was naive plus my previous relationships were not healthy either. I have never know what it was like to have a healthy committed relationship before. The reason this all became apparent was because i wanted to improve myself(which admittedly i needed) and my relationship. This is where i realized a lot about myself and what i really wanted in a relationship. I stopped drinking the cool aid so to speak and put my best foot forward. Right now i need to focus my attention on myself because i am obsessing on this and it isn't healthy. Thing is i dont want another decade to pass me by to be in the same situation. I am loyal and committed and never give up on someone i love but it feels like it wouldn't be reciprocated if push comes to shove. Trauma is a hell of a thing but i wouldn't know about it because i was loved and felt safe as a child.

NBRiverGuy · January 19, 2024, 05:14:41 PM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on January 19, 2024, 03:28:27 PMThank you for the reply, much appreciated. I am not exactly new to the subject i have been educating myself over the past year and a half. Im am new to this community. Its great to have resources like this but on the flip side i wish i didnt know about any of this. Npd, pd, bpd were things i knew nothing about. I mean we all have our issues myself included but this is a whole other dimension. I was naive plus my previous relationships were not healthy either. I have never know what it was like to have a healthy committed relationship before. The reason this all became apparent was because i wanted to improve myself(which admittedly i needed) and my relationship. This is where i realized a lot about myself and what i really wanted in a relationship. I stopped drinking the cool aid so to speak and put my best foot forward. Right now i need to focus my attention on myself because i am obsessing on this and it isn't healthy. Thing is i dont want another decade to pass me by to be in the same situation. I am loyal and committed and never give up on someone i love but it feels like it wouldn't be reciprocated if push comes to shove. Trauma is a hell of a thing but i wouldn't know about it because i was loved and felt safe as a child.

Same boat. My childhood was stable and full of love and support from my parents, other relatives, and my parents' friends. My wife came from a turbulent and abusive childhood. Not sure how long you have been in this relationship, but I wish I had educated myself 10 years ago when I slowly started seeing signs. I would say that you are on the right track.

PlantFlowersNotWeeds · January 19, 2024, 05:44:58 PM

I found this community and resources valuable in my journey. Actually, not valuable because that doesn't sum it up enough - this community along with my therapy and my own strength saved me. And, I mean saved me

Tryingtounderstand · January 19, 2024, 07:11:23 PM

I really appreciate the support and you guys opening up. I am in a bad place right now because i am the one "wearing the mask" i feel stuck and alone. I own a house with this person and have a child(adult daughter) i have to care for. Right now i don't trust this individual. I constantly keep questioning myself and my own behavior. In a weird unspoken way i feel she knows i know. I am a terrible actor and my energy around her is easy to pick up. I am at a point where i feel close to walking away. This is not me, it goes against my entire being. I feel toxic inside. Ultimately i have to make a decision but dont want to make a mistake. Some people have had there self esteem and identity stripped from them. Mine already was but after getting help from a therapist i started to regain my sense of self again. This is where i started to see everything. I informed my therapist what i have been experiencing but he can't diagnose someone he doesn't know. I respect that and fully understand. I started questioning some things in couples therapy in the kindest way i could but harsh truths are difficult for those with low self esteem. Its like she sees right through me and vice versa. She is veryhyper aware as I understand they are in a fight or flight mode at all times. The whole thing sucks and i feel i cant even express how i feel in therapy for fear of hurting her and the pull back that follows.

bloomie · January 20, 2024, 10:48:56 AM

Tryingtounderstand - welcome to Out of the FOG. You are at a steep point in the journey right now and I am glad you have found us, but so sorry for the realizations you are having that are bringing pain.

How worthy to be rebuilding the parts of you that you see have been lost. What a strong and determined step toward health you are taking.

Part of that process for myself, was figuring out when a strength, for example a strongly held belief such as showing compassion and loyalty never giving up on someone, when taken to an extreme, can be harmful to my peace of mind and life and make me a target for manipulation and misuse - even by someone who loves me.

Sometimes these are the ways our identity becomes woven into a relationship success or failure to a degree we have trouble making wise and empowered observations and decisions about issues within it. And a lot of fear, obligation, and guilt compromise our ability to see and guard our hearts.

For me, a true litmus test for the safety of an intimate partner are boundaries. So, whatever the area is that you are getting a gut feeling you are being manipulated and taken advantage of... set some limits, boundaries, insist on transparency and open communication around it, and watch what happens.

In couples therapy think about engaging and addressing some of your questions in an environment where your partner and you both have the emotional and therapeutic support that may be needed. A vulnerable, easily triggered partner with a history of complex trauma can hold us hostage to accommodate them to an unhealthy degree ime.

Love is compassionate and gentle, respectful and generous, but love is also truthful and clear. Clarity and addressing issues and concerns is loving and kind.

Be gentle with yourself as you take steps forward that you determine are best and right for you. And keep coming back. It helps to lighten a heavy load!

Tryingtounderstand · January 21, 2024, 12:13:54 AM

Thank you very much for your insight, I genuinely appreciate it. What you said really resonates with me. I have a lot of things to work on. More so with myself and managing my expectations. I think i have gotten to the point of "radical acceptance" Even though therapy and support from people here are helpful i realize i am responsible for my own happiness. As easy as that may sound it still a tough pill to swallow. Thank you

keepmoving · January 21, 2024, 10:30:02 PM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on January 19, 2024, 08:32:41 AMThis is someone i held in the highest regards with utmost repsect and love. I truly adore and care for this person deeply but something is off. My gut has been screaming at me for the last 4-6mo. A part of me feels i am being used or a means to an end. I dont know if anybody can relate.

To me, the doubting of yourself, if you have or haven't been manipulated or used, sounds like the doubt I experience when I try to talk myself out of how I'm feeling, because it feels wrong to feel this way. Because if I felt this way that would mean the other person had done something wrong, or has hurt me. And that would destroy the narrative the PD person has created, and what our relationship is built on. And I have to play along in order to maintain it.

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on January 19, 2024, 08:32:41 AMI would be devastated if i was only seen as an object that could be used as a stepping stone to enhance someone eles life while sacrificing my own. Not knowing is the hardest part. Thanks

What I'm hearing here Tryingtounderstand, is that if your SO does in fact have a PD and all if PD's manipulate, you would be heartbroken.

I wonder if having the diagnosis necessary? You've expressed that you feel manipulated, or as being used as a means to an end, I think you feeling this is enough. Trust your gut.

I'd like to acknowledge you in your story. We can only control our own behavior, and if this person isn't coming with you on your path to bettering yourself and your relationship, then they aren't coming with you, with or without a diagnosis. This doesn't mean you are abandoning them or that you don't care for them, or that they are a horrible broken person, it just means you are on different paths.

I commend you for doing the difficult work of self-reflection, it is so hard to look at people or aspects of our lives and selves that we'd rather ignore or pretend aren't happening, but you are doing the hard work of looking and that is no easy task.

Tryingtounderstand · January 23, 2024, 09:30:01 PM

Working on myself is the most important thing. It's not easy. In the meantime i will continue to educate myself and try to remain calm which right now has been difficult. Hopefully i can make good decisions going forward. Unfortunately i realize i have been taking care of others most of my life and haven't had the relationship i have needed all along, the one with myself.

bloomie · January 24, 2024, 09:19:48 AM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on January 23, 2024, 09:30:01 PMWorking on myself is the most important thing. It's not easy. In the meantime i will continue to educate myself and try to remain calm which right now has been difficult. Hopefully i can make good decisions going forward. Unfortunately i realize i have been taking care of others most of my life and haven't had the relationship i have needed all along, the one with myself.

Working on yourself is your gift to yourself and the world around you. It takes courage and strength to do the work you are doing and many chose not to go the distance. You are already making good decisions that position you for progress going forward. A wise friend reminds me often, the goal is progress, not perfection.

keepmoving · January 27, 2024, 02:01:33 AM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on January 23, 2024, 09:30:01 PMUnfortunately i realize i have been taking care of others most of my life and haven't had the relationship i have needed all along, the one with myself.

I can totally relate to this, I feel like my whole modus operandi was formed around caretaking my pd parent. I've been thinking, wouldn't it be nice if we could caretake ourselves as much as we do others?

I've recently been going to coda meetings and they have been helpful for me to direct my focus back onto myself. I find it also helps me check in with myself about the decisions I've been making, if they are aligned with the way I want to be living.

Reconnecting with myself has been difficult but exciting, I'm remembering and learning many things about myself. I hope you find the same enjoyment on your journey towards yourself. Take care, you deserve it.

Tryingtounderstand · January 27, 2024, 02:55:32 PM

Thank you for the kind words. I don't know if i mentioned this before but my SO and i are in counseling. Today we went and i had no idea where it was going to go. I have been starting to lose hope and today just confirmed by bias a little more. I always go in with the best intentions because I genuinely want to connect again but something always feels off. Subtle things that confuse me especially the timeline of events. I simply express i am a team player and will do anything necessary to improve our current situation because i love and care for this woman. It seems like there isn't any resolve. I understand i am completely different but if someone comes with genuine concern and compassion it will be met by the same behavior on my end. It usually falls short. I feel the only thing i can do is shut my mouth, hold it all in and keep taking care of the household. I am really struggling to identify and we are each our own but meeting in the middle mutually is a chore. I keep questioning my own behavior which at times is admittedly questionable but it comes out of frustration and the way i present things has definitely not a lot to be desired.

I realize that the reason things are taking a turn for the worst(or part if it) is because i am expressing myself and questioning things. Things that i thought would have been necessary to work on a healthy relationship but instead has caused more issues. I wont abandon the relationship or withhold love and affection but i need to take some focus off of it because i am naturally a "fixer" and i am going to drive myself crazy. My bottom line is deceit. Which right now is my worst fear that i hope is all in my head. I will not continue in this way. I hope i am wrong, very wrong.

keepmoving · February 10, 2024, 02:58:18 PM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on January 27, 2024, 02:55:32 PMI wont abandon the relationship or withhold love and affection but i need to take some focus off of it because i am naturally a "fixer" and i am going to drive myself crazy.

Focusing on something else sounds like a good way to alleviate some of the pressure. Expanding ourselves also seems to help broaden the scope of life, at least for me, I'm like oh wow there's so much more out there! I was so focused on figuring out what was wrong with this relationship/person I forgot to look up. Hobbies and friends can be a real lifeline. Even just going on a walk or to a movie alone I've found helpful. Stay strong, you deserve the life you want.

Tryingtounderstand · February 10, 2024, 07:31:26 PM

Thanks, i was just thinking of the forum to vent a bit and saw this. Something positive that I definitely need. I appreciate it immensely.

I have been struggling not with my situation as much as myself. I feel ashamed of myself because i lack the strength to just walk away. I am upset with myself not having the self respect to not tolerate this behavior. This is the part i cant figure out. I can and i cant all at the same time. A part of me wants to emotionally disconnect in some way to transition a bit easier. I feel like i need the last glimmer of hope of anything remotely close to a healthy relationship to die inside me. I always hope i am wrong and the way i feel is just my doubts and insecurities but my rational self knows the truth. People on the outside can not relate as the dynamics are so hard to describe. It's taken me two years to figure this out. I cant believe this is what it comes down to. At least if i got discarded i would have known no better. Ignorance is bliss i guess. Hope everyone out there struggling with this is doing ok.

keepmoving · February 11, 2024, 08:34:40 PM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on February 10, 2024, 07:31:26 PMI feel ashamed of myself because i lack the strength to just walk away. I am upset with myself not having the self respect to not tolerate this behavior.

I think many people in these situations blame and shame themselves, but the truth is that they are incredibly difficult and confusing. It's less to do with self-respect I think and perhaps more to do trauma bonds. As well as the hope user mentions:

Quote from: user on February 11, 2024, 06:20:45 PMHope dying is a long, slow, painful process.

Based on your posts, Tryingtounderstand, it seems as though you are going about this situation with a lot of respect for both parties involved. Going to couples therapy, joining and sharing on the forum, show you do have respect for yourself. You are not content with the situation as it stands and are seeking professional assistance as well as community support in order to understand and improve it. It also takes immense strength to do these things. Don't sell yourself short, you are doing the best you can.

Tryingtounderstand · February 15, 2024, 08:48:01 AM

Great responses Thank you everyone for being kind! One of my biggest issues is being very impulsive(wanting some sort of certainty)and wanting some stability when there isn't even a shred of it at the moment. Yesterday was tough because it was just a reminder of the current climate of our situation. Flowers, dinner ect. met with what i would consider a lack of enthusiasm as i am not the greatest source of supply anymore. I am complicit and nice but there is unspoken tension. It's like a chess game. Conversation doesn't flow like it used to. Its nearly impossible for me to be fake when one is consumed with skepticism toward the future. Life seemed easier when i was "in the fog" or was it?

NBRiverGuy · February 20, 2024, 05:18:09 PM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on February 10, 2024, 07:31:26 PMI have been struggling not with my situation as much as myself. I feel ashamed of myself because i lack the strength to just walk away. I am upset with myself not having the self respect to not tolerate this behavior. This is the part i cant figure out. I can and i cant all at the same time. A part of me wants to emotionally disconnect in some way to transition a bit easier. I feel like i need the last glimmer of hope of anything remotely close to a healthy relationship to die inside me. I always hope i am wrong and the way i feel is just my doubts and insecurities but my rational self knows the truth. People on the outside can not relate as the dynamics are so hard to describe. It's taken me two years to figure this out. I cant believe this is what it comes down to. At least if i got discarded i would have known no better. Ignorance is bliss i guess. Hope everyone out there struggling with this is doing ok.

I think we are cut from the same cloth. I feel exactly the same way. I've spent a lot of time hoping that my wife would leave me. And then, knowing that will never happen, ashamed of myself for not having the strength to walk away. Pile on top of that a helping of guilt for allowing her to sabotage most of the positive relationships in my life and here we are. My therapist is helping me come to terms with those feelings so that I can set them free. It is empowering to realize that those feelings belong to you and that you don't have to keep them. At the same time, it's hard to let them go.

MaxedOut · March 17, 2024, 09:46:05 PM

Quote from: Tryingtounderstand on February 10, 2024, 07:31:26 PMI have been struggling not with my situation as much as myself. I feel ashamed of myself because i lack the strength to just walk away. I am upset with myself not having the self respect to not tolerate this behavior. This is the part i cant figure out.

This is a challenging area. I've been stuck there for a while. There are a lot of good resources listed in recommended readings and videos/books people mention in threads. For me, one that really helped why/what goes on in me and unpack stuff is the book that started the FOG acronym in the first place,
"Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You" by Susan Forward and Donna Frazier (available on Kindle).

It's not about personality disorders specifically but complements understanding of those well. Like I have a better picture from PD books about my wife's core abandonment wound and likely areas and ways of dysregulating and what those really mean (the subtext of something upsetting her). Then from Emotional Blackmail I can better see how she spins out and that it is typically rooted in lack of control (over me, over others, over the narrative, over herself). And I can see me over the years, responding to address the distorted subtext/reassure and ending up manipulated, sacrificing my integrity, self-worth, needs, etc. the book walks through breaking down the buttons of your own getting pushed, the beliefs you have that are maladaptive, etc.

Tryingtounderstand · March 18, 2024, 06:29:40 PM

Thank you for that information.

As it stands now my situation has deteriorated significantly. It is pretty much over and i hope i can follow through. The dynamics are complicated and involves children and young adults. One of which is my daughter. There isn't enough space to write this here, it would be a long rant. Anyway i have been struggling with my feelings and this past month i have been confronting these issues head on with my SO. Admittedly my presentation is not the best even though i try to be gentle knowing i could easily strike a nerve. None of this matters. I plead for a civilized conversation and it's impossible. I get frustrated and engage in a very non productive way and the tone in my voice is condescending and spells it all. I am aware of this but i am a loose cannon right now. A major argument ensued over the weekend and resulted in other members of the family acting out poorly due to our tension. Right now i am mentally drained and feel i have exhausted my options. I am ready to leave. I am emotionally numb at this point. My personality i believe can't adapt to radically accepting who this person is. I am a pushover by nature and accommodating most people but i have set strong boundaries and the effects are being felt. Instead of coming with compassion and mutual understanding from my SO i get silence. Issues are never resolved, ever. The wounds get deeper each time. I fantasize what a healthy relationship would be one day and i know this isn't it. Things are awkward because of cohabitation with one another. I have no intention to further engage unless there is mutual compromise. Currently everything is one sided. I started looking at apartments for myself and my daughter despite owning two homes. One is currently occupied and the other I currently reside. From a financial standpoint this is a nightmare but the taste of freedom seems sweet.