I’m scared. Any answers help.

[Tina]

Would a narcissist do things like go to couples counselling, read a marriage book with you etc., in order to keep up a rouse of having BPD and wanting to get better? I think that's what my husband of 13yrs is and is doing. I'm scared.

[Rebel13]

I think so!  My mother loved going to counseling and then using the things she learned there to abuse me more.  "I have a right to say what I think!  The therapist said so!"

Ugh.  Good luck to you.

[xredshoesx]

welcome to the group

both my ex and my biological mother liked to twist the advice and heard what they wanted to hear.  when my ex was in anger management as part of our DV case he basically learned to be a more covert abuser.  my mother was very good at manipulating our reunification therapy sessions to always be about what she wanted them to be about vs the REAL issues that removed me from her custody.

we are listening when you are ready to share more-  be safe until then

[_firewalker_]

Another warm welcome to you! I would say both those things are entirely unsurprising. Especially if the BPD thinks they can leverage marriage counseling and marriage books for more abuse of you. They will use any and all tools at their disposal to make themselves superior and you inferior.

So yes, 100% they would do that.

[SonofThunder]

Another warm welcome to you! I would say both those things are entirely unsurprising. Especially if the BPD thinks they can leverage marriage counseling and marriage books for more abuse of you. They will use any and all tools at their disposal to make themselves superior and you inferior.

So yes, 100% they would do that.

  +1

[Boat Babe]

Hi Tina - you are so brave to reach out, especially as you are experiencing fear. Please have a look at these Power and Control resources https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wheels/ to gain a clearer idea of what is going on in your relationship with your husband. Do not communicate to him that you are doing so. Also, reach out to a local domestic violence agency - I feel you will need their support.
 
It matters not one jot what particular flavour of personality disorder your husband has. What matters is, in the first instance, your physical safety. Are you safe? Then, you need to decide if you want to stay with someone who is abusive (I say he is abusive because you say you are scared - we are not scared of safe people) Then you have to, carefully, exit the relationship. All of this sounds beyond scary and probably impossible - however, where do you want to be in five years time? Please don't waste your one and only life tied to an abuser. Keep talking to us.

[Just Kathy]

Protecting yourself in couples therapy with a narcissist

Dr. Romani - Youtube.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FXOFHRIUHQ

[Jsinjin]

If the person truly has NPD whether it is diagnosed or undiagnosed, the pattern of behavior is typically the traits that are listed in the Out of the FOG website regarding NPD.

They may not show all of the diagnostic traits but the person will show some of them to have that PD.

In the middle of the list are:

5). has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others


People with this type of personality can be quite strategic; almost in a chess game type of scenario with the ability to use behavior and situations to their advantage

I am not saying that a significant other who has NPD would manipulate or speak in couples therapy as a means to further their own agenda.  But this personality type is very consistent with their thoughts of self aggrandization.   

This type of personality disorder is one that some radically successful "users of others" have had on their way to lead companies, countries and families with the belief that they are owed adulation and control and they will absolutely manipulate and lie to gain that control.

I'm not at all saying the couples therapy won't be beneficial but if a person has NPD, the attendance of it and use of the therapy is highly likely not intended to show real vulnerability and improve sharing caring relationship.

BPD is obviously a different story with the PD exhibiting behaviors such as abandonment fears, irrational behavior including threats of self harm impulsive or compulsive behaviors and is often coupled with depression.   The control of a significant other in this case is typically to prevent the other from leaving them.   

Both can be abusive as the BPD can be irrationally impulsive and lead to physical or emotional abuse while the narcissist desires control.

They are both part of the same sub category of severe emotional personality disorders.

It is unlikely they are both.  A narcissist could "pretend" to be bpd perhaps for sympathy or manipulation but your pattern in history with them should show you if the NPD really desires you in the relationship as a form of adulation or perhaps as a possession.  The depth of manipulation will be much deeper and more calculated as a narcissist if the pattern has been filled with irrational outbursts as well as depression and erratic behaviors then a clinician would more likely consider then BPD.

I'm not a counselor or therapist and certainly not a psychiatrist. 

What I have learned through years on this forum is that PD's are almost never looking to improve their PD behaviors.  They are typically convinced they are in the right (whether that is conscious or sub conscious) and therefore their bad, abusive and controlling behaviors are somehow right even though we know they are flat wrong.

I often think of the behaviors and personality as the opposite of what we see as the archetype of a hero in literature.   Someone who in the face of danger or evil or overwhelming odds will never compromise their principles.   This analogy isn't necessarily a personality disorder but the fact that a fairy tale hero will never be unrighteous even in the face of martyrdom is the same strong "I am right" belief that the PD has for their reasoning.  The narcissist actually sees themself as a ruler above others and any manipulation is acceptable and required to maintain that superiority.   The BPD actually sees your relationship with them as fundamentally the only thing that is good and any amount of coveting or behavior driving sympathy is worth the episodes.

These attitudes WILL bleed over into your therapy regardless of what the actual diagnosis is.   And if the PD is actually real as a diagnosable disorder then it is VERY unlikely that the therapy (couples or individual) will be treated by them in an honest and healing way.

I wish I had better, more optimistic thoughts for you.   This is a forum where we all deal with immovable objects and I absolutely pray for your safety and well being.  Protect yourself more than being vulnerable for the purpose of shared emotional connections in the therapy.

[Tryingtounderstand]

Please get Dr. Ramanis book. It is such a well written and compassionate book. It has solidified a lot of my concerns. As far as Counseling is concerned i don't think it will be productive. Counseling is not about validation but the space to openly discuss needs and feelings in a mature way, with a willingness to resolve issues. I noticed in my situation there was little to no resolve of any issues especially any carry over to the home. Even if the therapist is well versed in these personalities it is of little use. The pd individual needs one on one therapy. Radical acceptance and managing expectations are key. Once you no longer see through the rose colored glasses you can never unsee it. I feel for anyone who have to endure the reality of these relationships because it is so damaging. I wish you the best in you journey.