Society’s unhelpful mixed messages

[square]

We get strong messages from society about whether to stay or leave. The messages are strong but mixed, which adds to the confusion of those facing hard choices.

Furthermore, many of the messages are of a "no way to win" variety, where you are blamed for your situation no matter what you do.

Here are just a few examples.

So you're just going to throw away X years of marriage over (incredibly reductive "reason")?

My H said the "throw away X years" part some months back when I told him I was done. I asked what the best time would have been - under ten years? Five? To his credit, he dropped it, but man do I hear this everywhere.

I also love how any divorce can be minimized into one small act. You could have ten years of gambling problems but if the last straw was a $500 spree, you divorced over 500 lousy bucks - not the decade of broken promises, unpaid bills, sleepless nights, kids not having the resources they could have had, you working extra to try to fix it and affecting your health, and on and on. But it's "threw away ten years over $500."

You knew who you were marrying.

This might actually be the one that infuriates me the most. Like I said "Wow, this is a really unhealthy and abusive person. I could break it off. But I think I'm going to choose to ruin my life just because, well I don't know why, but I'm a horrible person so I choose it."

And I guess that means you're stuck forever.

But most abusers have very good masks.

Many of us were raised to feel like abusive behavior is normal.

And some people actually do change. Drug and alcohol addiction can change people. Mental illness can develop or worsen in adulthood. Brain injuries can happen. Medication can change things. Heart attacks can change things.

Why is it so important to some people that bad situations have to be all your fault?

People these days just want to take the easy way out and divorce. Marriage is hard work.

Divorce isn't easy at all.

And I've put in the hard work. I can't do it alone.

You just stayed because it was "comfortable."

Ah, the flip side of the previous one. It wasn't comfortable at all.

There were no easy choices. None.

You're the one letting him/her treat you that way.

You hear this one from both those who think you're wrong for divorcing and those who think you're wrong for staying.

Bottom line: you're wrong no matter what, and it's your fault.

Have you tried just talking to him/her? Nobody knows how to communicate anymore.

There are so many references to "these days" and "anymore" like people used to have universally blissful marriages free of abuse.

Yeah, I tried talking to him, thanks for the suggestion.

You obviously don't care about your kids.

Another one that comes from both sides. Again, you're wrong no matter what you do.

If you stay, you deserve what you get.

Thanks for the support.

[Cascade]

Wow, I agree with everything you've written there. It's way more complicated than most people think.

[SonofThunder]

Wow, I agree with everything you've written there. It's way more complicated than most people think.

+1.  I am in the middle of a divorce and can testify to the truth of all of Square's post.  Agree with you Cascade; way more complicated.

SoT

[notrightinthehead]

I used to get that a lot while I was still in the relationship. While I was still limping towards freedom.
Now I'm in the middle of a divorce case too and now it's all about finance and assets. It was hard for me to wrap my head around that. To accept there would be no amends for the years of struggle, of pain, of despair. There would be no closure and forgiveness. Lawyers and courts cannot help me with that. Only try to divide the goods fairly.
People have stopped giving me advice or letting me know their judgement of my marriage. I have joined the ranks of 'separatees'.

You are an expert on your situation Square. You have suffered and sacrificed and tried. And ultimately it only matters how you judge yourself.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I think when people are throwing out these judgmental statements, it's really about them somehow. I'm not sure who you're talking to, but for whatever reason your decisions are making them uncomfortable and they're heaping on the blame/shame/guilt to allow themselves to feel justified again. That's not your stuff. Your rebuttals are spot on and you don't have to take on the burdens of managing other people's emotions on top of your own significant challenges.

Not divorce related in my case, but my uPD mother's favorite was, "You made your bed, now lie in it." Anybody who says any version of this to you is telling you very plainly they just don't care about you in this. I'm seeing a lot of variations on this theme above. That's crappy of them but helpful information.

[square]

I'm not talking about my relationship with anyone but you guys, so other than a few bits I've heard from my H, none of these have been directly said to me.

But I read these sentiments, often verbatim, online all the time, and the ideas permeate our media in general as well. And I've heard remarks irl about other people.

So it's just "society" but believe me, it has an effect on me. Ultimately it adds to a feeling of being stuck. It adds to a feeling of disapproval no matter what I do. It adds to the message I already receive at home that the problems are of my making alone.

It adds to my inertia.

[Poison Ivy]

Like Square, I don't think people have said these things directly to me. Also like Square, I've gotten the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" message anyway.

[SonofThunder]

Ive had them all said to me except the last one. 

Many by my stbx, many of the same by my uNPDf who was only concerned about his family name being marred by a divorce and resulting situations he thought may negatively affect him in some way.  Lastly, by a few husbands of my stbx's friends who somehow thought their words would have some effect on me, yet they are caught up in my stbx's smear campaign through their wives, so dont know the truth. 

It's a narrow and emotionally harrowing escape-road indeed and imo I must be willing to navigate by the solo lamp that's on my own head and the foundational strength in my soul. 

SoT

[Jsinjin]

I hope there are some people I. Your life who look at the big picture and long-term horizon on your thoughts and reasons.  Our world today so very short sighted and dopamine fed and people have a "diet" of ways to state things that are both inflammatory and designed to incite discomfort and anger. 

One could say "oh you're Christian so you support all the evils performed in Christ name for the crusades and XYZ?".   

We definitely know that there is always a straw the breaks the back of the camel but it is a giant pile that strained the poor animal in the first place. 

There is a general lack of comprehension of personality disorders because the view of relationships is Hollywood and bad things only happen in horror movies or thrillers.  Asking anyone who has been married for 30 years will likely get a commitment talk, a frustration talk and a trust talk.   But there won't be a "my partner systematically abused me emotionally never letting up and never stopping for reasons known only to them and for no real benefit" talk.   Because that's simply not a committed marriage.   It's just hard for sound byte, dopamine-fueled purveyors of controversy to process because it's complex and difficult.

[square]

Interesting comments.

It seems to me that some people have an extremely limited (or shall we say nonexistent) ability to understand that not all situations are the same.

They've learned over 10, 20, 30, 40 years how to exist in THEIR marriage. And maybe rightfully can pat themselves on the back for learning how to communicate better, or let some things go, or adjust expectations, or put in more effort. While also still remaining in a flawed but ultimately net-positive partnership.

But learning to communicate better, or let things go, or put in more effort in some marriages is not only not enough, but actually harmful in the end.

The flip side is that those people who say you deserve what you get because you didn't leave have likely never been there. They say "I would never let anyone treat me that way, I would have been gone the FIRST time he/she ____."

And I know it's true that people successfully bail on relationships all the time. But the judgers are picturing bailing on a relationship that they don't care about, that they are not financially and legally entangled in, where the abuse started early and overtly, where there is no family pressure of any sort, and where they feel no fear, obligation, or guilt.

Not to say those obstacles cannot be surmounted, of course they can. But if you're smugly telling someone that you are better because you would have jumped ship, sit down babe, because you clearly have no clue.

Note: While I would never have said any of these crappy things, when I was younger I would have assured you I would never tolerate some list of things that I have in fact ended up tolerating. I'm smart, I have good self esteem, I have good family support, I don't subscribe to beliefs that can condone abuse including certain gender roles.

And yet? Through a variety of factors, including the slow boiling of the frog, I ended up in a situation I never would have dreamed of. Go figure.

[MaxedOut]

This is all super good stuff.

And as square said, these are things I wouldn't have said but I would have doubted the notion of allowing myself to be treated the way I have been (able to be financially independent, good self esteem, family support, no history of familial abuse, smart, healthy attachment, etc.).

I may have not "assured" anyone of this though. But only because in my early 20s I had an ex come to me a few years after we had broken up telling me that her current SO was physically abusive. Both she and I thought that wouldn't be something she'd ever tolerate (totally self assured, strong, not afraid to stand up for herself, accomplished, independent, etc.). If I had rank ordered my friends by likelihood of being/staying in a relationship where that person is being physically abused, I may have put her at the bottom of a long list.

That stuck with me. Even if I (and she) didn't really understand the "whys" fully, I did understand that what we think we know about ourselves and others is really fallible and created from a contextual vacuum.

And yeah, there was some odd stuff, but I didn't experience anything abusive really until years into things, and with a severe and disabling mental crisis as the backdrop (and the sort of heart-wrenching self-esteem and abandonment roots of borderline).

For those who think in terms of these types of absolutes, there is a fair chance they would hold both "You don't abandon your spouse when/because they are sick" and "You shouldn't stay in a relationship that is abusive" at the same time.

Just as important as thinking through how these cultural, societal, interpersonal critiques might affect us, is rooting out our own beliefs. I had come to understand a few of those prior to reading Susan Forward's Emotional Blackmail (originator of the FOG concept), but it had some great exercises to dig into identifying those and how they are hooks and fuel for fear, obligation, and guilt.

[sunshine702]

These are the same folks who give their own drivel of how THEY would never have a bad work situation because THEY "would talk to the person" and then "talk to Hr". The experts in workplace bully situations stay NO do not doe either of these things!! 

[sunshine702]

I have another one

You guys will have to work it out

It's we acknowledge but will not get involved which leaves the couple with no one to turn to

[sunshine702]

Dr Ramani talks about listening to these people about relationships especially with Cluster B people is like listening to a lotto ticket winner about how to build wealth on a small wage.
They have no idea they got lucky but think they know stuff!