Do PD's Do This

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Klarity Belle

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2012, 08:30:54 AM »
From personal experience, common traits that seem to feature in most pd's but to varying degrees are: Lack of empathy towards others (capable of empathy towards self), fear of abandonment, fear of intimacy.

I have dated most of the DSM over the last 25 years. I found partners with ASPD/Npd styles to be the least empathic and the most callous and manipulative, pulling out all the stops to appear genuinely remorseful only in order to prevent me leaving the relationship. Once I was safely back in 'my place' the abusive behaviours would start all over again. Eventually I learned not to be fooled by this type and I graduated along the pd path...

Partners i've had with more of a bpd/jekyll and hyde style were more likely to have moments of clarity and short periods of what appeared to be genuine intimacy and normalcy until an inevitable trigger set them off again. The times of genuine closeness were what kept me in these relationships. But eventually I realised that the good and the 'bad' were two sides of the same coin and that I could not live with that, on with my journey...

The man I fell for the hardest had a very strong Avoidant pd style, he was a very gentle, kind and empathic person however his own inner critic was so powerful and he was so hypervigilent for criticism that he saw it even where it didn't exist. Inevitably as happens in 'normal' relationships the need to share different opinions, negotiate and compromise would arise but unable not to take these as personal attacks, my lovely Avpd man withdrew more and more into his shell.  Eventually I learned that even though he was the sweetest man in the world, unless he was willing to try to get well, I would need to move on again....

Then I found my way to OOTF and a great therapist. That was almost 4 years ago now and I haven't felt the need to look for a partner again yet but if/when I do I know it will be a healthy one.

Varja that list is a great one to live by  :thumbup:
"Your task is not to seek love, but to seek and find all the barriers you have built against it." ~ Rumi

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Varja

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2012, 02:28:30 PM »
Absolutely - they can be a PD behavior trait.

I've personally witnessed my NPD sf deliberately take foolish and needlesss risks as a means of focusing attention upon himself and getting his narcissistic supply.

It may also be a component of several other PD's: ASPD, BPD, HPD to name a few.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

~ Bodhipaksa Krishnamurti

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JamesP

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2012, 03:55:33 PM »
My wife never showed affection kissing, cuddling, barely hugged me but she did like sex and lots of it she always wanted it. I would come home from a long day at work and she would say honey I want sex now and I would say baby can I unwind for a moment? Wife would say no I want sex and I want it now! My wife also wasn't the giving type either she never gave me any presents for birthdays, christmases, etc  She gave me a present once and it was a grill set and honestly it came out of nowhere! She said surprise sweetie!!!! It wasn't a special event or anything she just handed me a bag and I opened it and it was a grill set and she reminded me how much she spent on it :wacko:.  She would remind me until we divorced how much she spent on that grill set :blink: and of course she loved putting my life in danger. Gee I miss her ::)

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Pea pod green

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2012, 01:35:28 PM »
... moments of clarity and short periods of what appeared to be genuine intimacy and normalcy until an inevitable trigger set them off again. The times of genuine closeness were what kept me in these relationships. But eventually I realised that the good and the 'bad' were two sides of the same coin and that I could not live with that, on with my journey...

Thank you for this thread.  For the initial reminder, Gary, and for the responses.  And Klarity Belle, I appreciate reading your words, which sound similar to what made me so baffled and so deeply hurt.  And yes, I guess I did a lot of 'getting inside her head' to try and figure it out or figure out how to respond better... it was only when I stopped thinking that we had a similar goal that I began to let go.  A paradigm shift of sorts.  The similar goal I thought we shared (or should share) was the battle with her fears, her legacy of trauma, her suspicions and distrust.  I saw these difficulties as separate from the good good person she was and wanted to be.  But when I realized that she truly was/is married to her fears and defensiveness  - and who am I to say she should divorce them? - well that changed everything.  She even had some awareness of this. Once she said 'my fears and anxieties are what have held me together and defined me for all my life. How can you ask me to just drop them?'

Everything changed with that realization.  But I don't mean to say it got easier.  That's actually when I had to start looking at my role in our toxic dance.  And I was so unprepared for the necessity of letting go of  e v e r y t h i n g  about Us.  To know it was the only right thing I could do but still to hate hate hate that truth and to continue to receive all the blame for it too... nothing more painful.

Anyway, my point was, thank you.  this thread is what I needed to read this morning.

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freshroasted

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2012, 08:33:08 PM »
I don't want to speak for everyone, but as a new person coming here, when I ask "do PD's do this?" I think what I'm really saying is, "Has anyone else experienced the repercussions of this behavior and can I please find some support in dealing with it?"

When in a state of shock and stress it's sometimes really hard to find the right words to ask the question you really are trying to ask.
Also we don't necessarily know what we need until after getting the support of other members.

Also, I'm going to print out Varja's list and use it all the time! So true, boundaries are for everyone....

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Varja

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2012, 04:21:03 PM »
I think what I'm really saying is, "Has anyone else experienced the repercussions of this behavior and can I please find some support in dealing with it?"

You're certainly not alone in using this approach, as it's a pretty common "starting point" for many who are awakening to the reality of mental illness in a family member or spouse.

When we're presented with a confusing and contradictory array of strange behavior patterns, where else would we logically begin when trying to understand what we're dealing with?

Each one of us copes differently, and each person with a PD manifests their disorder(s) differently. THE common thread, however - are the behaviors. Logically, this is where most everyone begins understanding.

Sometimes, we can get wrapped around the axle, and delay our own healing and recovery if we get too fixated upon the behaviors. Often, we'll try to diagnose a specific PD. While I've no doubts that my mom is affllicted with BPD, I still don't have a formal diagnosis, nor will I ever have one.

Often, I think the self-help industry perpetuates the notion that (if we know) the specific disorder we're dealing with - then we can learn to counter those behaviors and have a better relationship. Perhaps some may be able to do this. However, it's my sincere belief that this approach can be dangerous and cause more problems than it solves - especially when the person with the PD remains in denial.

New members are given the grace to learn as much as necessary about these disorders and also given information about most of them on-site. Eventually, those who've walked this path before - trying to help these new members - will begin a process of "gently" prodding them to look inward.

Reason being, we can't control those with PD's, nor can we change their behaviors on a long-term basis. We can control our reactions, and learn different methods of taking care of ourselves while we're in very, very difficult relationships. Sometimes, it's hard to know when a member will be most receptive to changing their focus, and mistakes are made.

Know that most members here have one overarching goal in mind: Learning to cope with people with PD's, while interacting with others in a virtual environment who are dealing with similar challenges. By no means is this a perfect process, and sometimes people encounter things here that they're not ready to accept or process internally.

At the end of the day, though - I certainly believe that a great deal of "good" is accomplished here. We can all make this forum a place where we accept everyone who is willing to learn, and it's always best to err on the side of kindness instead of insisting on being right.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

~ Bodhipaksa Krishnamurti

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Greyhound

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2012, 09:55:50 AM »
Thank you for all the wisdom and insight above, still so much to learn!

Something i've learned (which was not easy to accept about myself) is that I was trying to control people/things that were not possible to control or appropriate to try and control and I would say be very aware of this. If you try to control other people/situations you can end up putting yourself into an impossible position and it's a huge burden that will make you unhappy. Let yourself off the hook - you didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it.

I found this article very helpful: http://www.angeresources.com/controlarticle.html


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ontheroad

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2012, 08:36:50 PM »
I too am new to this forum. I'd like to share that is is relief for me to share my fear, my disappointment, to hear myself be disbelieving of my own behavior, that allowed myself to get to this place, to 'try on' my inner strength and resolve...
We met on-line 'Match.com'... yesterday I looked back at the transcripts of our early conversations, and guess what, my concerns back then are exactly the mechanisms I am escaping today!! That speaks volumes in regard to my own self-esteem and co-dependency issues. I don't blame him... I asked the right questions right off the bat, I didn't heed my own good intuition. Now I ask myself..

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?” ― Mary Oliver
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redwing3

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2012, 08:01:10 PM »
So glad this thread got resurrected or brought current, it is really very helpful and important.  Thank all of you.

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mylife

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2012, 03:30:10 PM »
I too am new to this forum. I'd like to share that is is relief for me to share my fear, my disappointment, to hear myself be disbelieving of my own behavior, that allowed myself to get to this place, to 'try on' my inner strength and resolve...

yeah... I feel the same

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FaerieDust

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2013, 07:10:32 PM »
Brand spanking new on this site today...after reading this thread I'm bawling like a baby. Sums everything up...the good, bad and ugly of it all. Sure glad I found you guys.

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Varja

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2013, 09:20:32 PM »
Glad you've joined us, FaerieDust - and sorry about the tears. Welcome.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

~ Bodhipaksa Krishnamurti

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practicingacceptance

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2013, 02:57:50 AM »
I love that list Varja, i've added it to my collection of 'useful things'.

I sometimes wonder, going back to the original post, if there's a danger that we could all get a bit bogged down in trying to work out what's going on with the PD in our life, and kind of forget to live our own life.

When i was married to exh - there was a lot of what i now know is narcissism, and certainly a lot of drinking, to a disruptive level. I threw myself into learning all i could about drinking/alcoholism so that i could 'help' him. I even went to al anon to learn how to 'help' him. For 'help' read 'control' as that's what i really wanted. I thought it was for me to fix. I was full of fear of things kicking off and that made me want control.

But at al anon I quickly learned that it wasn't my business what was going on in his head, he could only ever get better when it is totally his responsbility, and my job was to live my life and make me happy.

I know alcoholism and PD are two different things (though often happen together i think) but reading people's posts sometimes reminds me of me trying to 'fix' things by reading, learning etc and trying to apply what i'd learned.

I know now that I was just making it worse.

Not sure if this is making any sense, but i think what i'm trying to say is, lets not forget to live our lives too.

i completely relate to this, greyhound. it is one of the proponents of codependency to focus on others when you should be focusing on yourself.

and i went the al-anon route also, halfway through my marriage. he never changed, just more adept at deceit.

i have backed away from trying to figure it all out, it is wonderful to be able to work on myself, and over the months, little things (past abuses) are remembered, and i'll say "oh, yah, it was him, the crazy so-n-so, why didn't i see it?"

at least now, it makes sense after discovering/learning the particular behaviors of PDs (NPD/BPD in my case & probably more). now i can say "whew, i am sure lucky to be out of that situation". the thoughts will come when you don't try too hard. it is processing over time in order to not get overwhelmed, which i did at first. i wanted all the answers! i wanted to feel right.

my thinking now is, will i know when i come across a PD and be able to handle myself in a healthy manner? i can't be alone forever.
 
spending the time learning about me, i think is best time spent for healing, learning again to trust my instincts. then understanding others will be much clearer. and then eventually relating in a healthy manner. life has much to offer!

thanks, varja, for the list (copied) and everyone, Gary, for this post.

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epiphanywoman64

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2013, 08:13:12 AM »
thanks for pinning this

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practicingacceptance

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2013, 04:31:17 PM »
yes, i needed this again. thank you gary!

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Greyhound

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2013, 01:47:13 PM »
hi practising!
sorry it has taken me so long to log on and read your lovely reply to my post.
I think you will learn to trust yourself again and you will know better next time and I'm sure there are plenty of healthy people out there.
I got married again after a few years and we have a lovely life now. I have got better at spotting pd traits in people though and i am very wary of them, and prefer not to spend my time with them.

Well done on getting away from the PDs in your life, it really is not easy.

Out of the FOG has helped me so much in piecing together what happened in my childhood and my first marriage and it arms you to defend yourself against pds - they are all around us. But they are in amongst lots of good hearted healthy people too.
I look for an ability to listen, empathise, give credit where it's due, stuff like that, they are the kind of people i like - also they don't take themselves too seriously and you certainly don't have to walk on eggshells around them

best wishes to you on your journey!x

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practicingacceptance

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2013, 11:54:44 PM »

I think you will learn to trust yourself again and you will know better next time and I'm sure there are plenty of healthy people out there.
I got married again after a few years and we have a lovely life now. I have got better at spotting pd traits in people though and i am very wary of them, and prefer not to spend my time with them.

thanks greyhound for the encouragement. i am glad, too, that you have found a good one to share your life with.

i will use your advice: "... an ability to listen, empathise, give credit where it's due - also they don't take themselves too seriously and you certainly don't have to walk on eggshells around them.". my guess once i truly listen to my instincts and trust myself it should be fairly obvious who to hang with. practicing mindfulness...  :yes:

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Greyhound

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2013, 06:48:52 PM »
Practicing mindfulness? Ooh tell me more - do you mean as in meditation etc? I have recently started this and it's wonderful. Takes some application though.

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kinsey_m

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2013, 07:28:10 AM »
I'm new to Out of the FOG but there is something that has been bothering me, it may be a misunderstanding on my side since I am a bit sensitive about this issue.

I know that whether PDs are a mental illness or not is a controversial issue, and I don't want to go into it right now. However, it seems to me that sometimes there is not a clear distinction of this forum about mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schyzophernia and PDs. Now, I know that PDs sometimes also present bipolar disorder or schyzophrenia, but most people with mental health illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schyzophrenia are non-PDs. In fact they may be (and I know some that definitely are) very loving and caring persons who happen to be very ill. That is not to say that dealing with the illness is esay for them ore their loved ones, but there is a huge difference between someone being delusional, having hallucinations, etc because he or she is ill, and someone deliverately crafting a lie to manipulate others.

As for differences within PDs, I know BPDs and NPDs who have no empathy or remorse whatsoever, and HPD who may be difficult to deal with but are not manipulative, rather a danger to themselves in the way they take impulsive decissions, make scenes that endanger their relationships, professional prospects, etc. Guys, having or not having empathy, that is a huge difference, and it should be acknowledged.

I think this is a great support website, and there are definitely some very nasty people out there, but please, lets be specific and give everyone their due. :)

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Oneness

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Re: Do PD's Do This
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2013, 07:39:31 AM »
Kinsey, I have noticed some newbies to the site doing what you say. If they read the site carefully before posting, they will understand the difference between Axis I  and Axis II mental illnesses/disorders. Many with an Axis II ( NPD/ BPD) disorder are co-morbid with an Axis I....my unBPD ex is also bipolar (diagnosed).

I am an Axis I, I am bipolar....been bipolar my whole life. ( since I was 8). I take meds for it, for almost 30 years now.

I think as people learn the site, they refer only to the PD of the loved one...although occasionally we get those who think a bipolar loved one (no PD mentioned) is a PD....really makes me feel.... :stars:
It's better to love and lost, then to live with a psycho for the rest of your life.

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