The toll of chronic invalidation and abuse

[Invisiblewoman]

I find I may fixate on my past because I feel like I need to stay ahead of the lies they told, or once I have gotten out of the relationship I am confronted with the reality that they lied about so many things just to sow the seeds of doubt.

As if it wasn't bad enough with one abuser who was a pathological liar, it's a sibling who is willing to be violent and manipulate the past to his advantage. It's the aunt who thinks it's necessary to lie to me and triangulate my brother in to distort and stonewall any communication that touches on the trauma. As if me being human and maybe telling the truth is viewed as troubling and potentially more upsetting. As if my disclosure is more offensive than the abuse itself.

It's how I took the blame when I confronted them.

I had a nightmare where I dreamt my mother was still alive and she had discovered all the painful stories I wrote that included her. I can't be sorry for a past I didn't inflict on anyone. But me telling my story is somehow evil and a lie.

I am 50 and still have nightmares where I dream my disclosure is used as a weapon against me.

I was called an abuser for disclosing. If that's abuse what would they call the things that have been done to me?

I guess old habits die hard. They need to assign blame like they always have. I guess why change now?

I am meditating. I went through therapy for c- ptsd. I am reading through a dialectical therapy book but find myself thinking they could read through it themselves. They think nothing is wrong with how they behave and I find it infuriating, especially how they portray me as harming them.

[notrightinthehead]

I have been there. Struggling with the past and not being believed or being condemned for telling my story. It took me a long time to accept that I don't need validation or closure from them. Only when I let that hope go did the grief set in. So painful. But allowing the grief in was the first step to learning how to comfort, soothe, accept myself. I encourage you to look at your own feelings.

[moglow]

This may or may not suit you, but something that actually worked for me... Most of my life I had nightmares about a couple of specific incidents with my mother - violent, ugly demeaning incidents that had tormented me since. She had lost it [over God knows what] and just did not find her way to sanity. Anyway, those memories were fairly vivid and painful, and seemed to pop up when I was stressed or not feeling well. And every time it happened it was like it was all fresh and I had to recover all over again.

Anyhoo after a random conversation about childhood a few years ago, my brother sent me a link to a guy called Praying Medic who talks about emotional healing. Boiled down to basics, his process was: Think about the incident, put yourself back there. Feel it and try to identify the feelings [what first came to mind for me was hopeless, helpless]. Ask to be released from the negative feelings and accept the gift of the release, then just sit with it for a bit. Go back in your mind to that situation, see what you feel. Address whatever other bad feelings come up, and ask that they be released or possibly replaced with something good. I found myself asking for peace, and that she find peace. For me some thing was definitely different after the first time. A few days later I went through it again and I realized it wasn't that sharp ache I'd felt before. Something had changed within me.

I've not had those nightmares since, not even once. I know it happened and I still remember it, could describe it to you in detail, but the emotions tied to it are just gone. It's different. I'm different.

Wishing you peace, InvisibleWoman.

[Invisiblewoman]

This may or may not suit you, but something that actually worked for me... Most of my life I had nightmares about a couple of specific incidents with my mother - violent, ugly demeaning incidents that had tormented me since. She had lost it [over God knows what] and just did not find her way to sanity. Anyway, those memories were fairly vivid and painful, and seemed to pop up when I was stressed or not feeling well. And every time it happened it was like it was all fresh and I had to recover all over again.

Anyhoo after a random conversation about childhood a few years ago, my brother sent me a link to a guy called Praying Medic who talks about emotional healing. Boiled down to basics, his process was: Think about the incident, put yourself back there. Feel it and try to identify the feelings [what first came to mind for me was hopeless, helpless]. Ask to be released from the negative feelings and accept the gift of the release, then just sit with it for a bit. Go back in your mind to that situation, see what you feel. Address whatever other bad feelings come up, and ask that they be released or possibly replaced with something good. I found myself asking for peace, and that she find peace. For me some thing was definitely different after the first time. A few days later I went through it again and I realized it wasn't that sharp ache I'd felt before. Something had changed within me.

I've not had those nightmares since, not even once. I know it happened and I still remember it, could describe it to you in detail, but the emotions tied to it are just gone. It's different. I'm different.

Wishing you peace, InvisibleWoman.

I think for me going back is so hard because it feels like a deluge of intense suffering and feeling like my mother wanted me dead.

There is a pointless amount of pain. I don't want to be in that place because at so many points I felt so helpless and family doesn't understand or believe I went through something so serious.

I know it's there and I don't want to call on it. I found what works are grounding exercises that bring me to the here and now. I already know the past and still struggle with the anxiety it left me with. I want to understand the anxiety and not let it control me.

I started reading about dialectical therapy especially on the part about non reactivity and meditation. It's not perfect but every calm moment counts to me.

[Rebel13]

Boiled down to basics, his process was: Think about the incident, put yourself back there. Feel it and try to identify the feelings [what first came to mind for me was hopeless, helpless]. Ask to be released from the negative feelings and accept the gift of the release, then just sit with it for a bit. Go back in your mind to that situation, see what you feel. Address whatever other bad feelings come up, and ask that they be released or possibly replaced with something good.

This is really interesting, moglow, thank you for sharing it! It makes me think about Pete Walker's concept of emotional flashbacks and also what I've read about EMDR. I can see how consciously working with a memory that created the emotions I experience during a flashback could help lessen their power over me. I'm going to give that a try!  Thanks again!

[moglow]

Facing it head on, reliving it intentionally, actually helped me let go of it. Instead of being caught off guard and startled by it, it helped me understand that ultimately I was in control and it -she- couldn't hurt me anymore. I was pleasantly surprised by the simplicity of the process and how quickly I felt relief. I wasn't exhausted after, no dread, no fear or sadness with those memories anymore. 

But as I say, like everything else, it's not for everyone.

[Invisiblewoman]

I started reading "Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma" by Peter A. Levine that explores human trauma from a emotional and physiologic perspective. To me, the trauma has a physical component that is hard to define, and sometimes very unconscious- like how much I tensed up when it happened and how I felt emotionally pushed off balance, and how it's a push and pull between the unconscious tension I feel, and my emotional response to it. To me the two seem intertwined and if I give myself a physical outlet, a lot of the emotional stuff sort of dissolves. The other day I decided to go for a long walk and by the end of it, the emotional negativity I felt was gone.

I struggle with an anxiety disorder,and as a part of my abuse I was made to feel as if so much more was wrong with me, and I was provoked in an awful way (with physical abuse and threats of death). My emotional response to the abuse was painted as crazy when I really was just surviving in a horrible situation. After leaving home I found myself struggling with delayed responses, and freezing in difficult situations. So there was a guilt in how I responded, but my family tried to ensure I'd have that response which in hindsight is sick, but that's how abusers gain control of their victims. For me, it's also about viewing all your responses as survival in situations you could not get out of, and respecting that, and letting yourself become friends with your anxiety and letting it teach you about potentially bad situations. I was punished often when I expressed any natural instincts or insights on my own situation, again which is an abuse tactic.

I once had an anxious reaction to a difficult neighbour who made some sexually derogatory remarks and expected me to "just take a it as a joke." It wasn't a joke, and he was being a creep. I assertively told him I wished not to be his friend, and that his comments were not okay. I said I wasn't going to do him any favours (especially because it involved me being alone with him). His response confirmed that he was a massive creep and potentially a narcissist, as he went on a smear campaign and tried to label me as crazy, or "severely abused" to have such a response to him. It couldn't be that he was a creep. Other people ended up confirming that my reaction was reasonable, as they had the same uncomfortable interactions with him.

I try to reward myself for listening to my intuition because with narcissistic abuse they want you to be disconnected from it, and made to feel crazy if you trust your instincts. It's all about shutting off that internal dialogue that says otherwise.

[LoverofPeace]

Hello Invisiblewoman,

I have read some of your posts and I had to respond because your situation and the way you clearly articulate an incredibly difficult situation resonated with me. There are things you said that made me think, 'Yes, she gets it!'. But at the same time--'Man, that's not cool that she had to experience that with family members, no less'. 

I understand a lot of what you're saying, like the physiological/emotional reactions from the trauma you experienced. I also go through this to this day, and I'm 58 y.o. Over the years, I've had delayed responses and would freeze up and used to wonder why. Many years, and many lessons later, I know myself much better now; ironically having seen the worst parts of me and those who affect(ed) me.

A little explanation about me: I grew up with narc family members myself, and they are also in my nuclear family. Namely, it's been my Nmom, Ngrandmom, and an Nsis who was the crux of my having to fight or flight; which both have happened, whether literally or figuratively. The Nsis, I grew up having to literally fight without anyone helping, specifically Nmom. She used to only say for us to figure it out! Meanwhile, we were just kids and it went into our teens. I would have a mouth when I wanted, but I also acquiesced to the dark side of me and would become a depressed youngster. With these things going on, no one even noticed because of 'sibling rivalry' and the 'typical moody teenager' people might have seen, they'd still say nothing, and just keep it moving with their busy lives. Actually, people thought I was happy and funny, because I learned to play things off. With an Nmom and Nsis that liked to put their hands on me, I did it for survival. I could get loud and fight back, but I realized that was only more defense mechanisms. I really would have loved to have harmony amongst us and peace (thus, my screen name), but these N's weren't having any of that. Thank goodness those two were the type to always hang out (looking back, I see that's how they'd keep their supply up). I don't know how me and my other sis (this one was a sweetheart) would have otherwise made it through. 

Fast-forward to today, the sweet sister, Ngrandmom, and Nmom have all passed on in the last few years, with the Nmom having just been a couple of months ago. I've lost many other family members throughout the years, so it's a very small group of family members that's left. Meaning, I'm 'stuck' with this Nsis who I find to be high on that N scale. While I do love and miss my Nmom--who put me through trials and tribulations but at least wasn't as high up there as this Nsis (but still high enough)--I still had to keep very low contact and feel like I could have finally have peace with it all. That is, if it wasn't for this Nsis and the recent rollercoaster with her, especially with the Ngrand and Nmom's passing that she took under her wing and took care of the arrangements. I helped, but the bulk of it was definitely her. I was the one there through the years, but it all got discounted, even while the grand and the mom were still alive. Now, I'm hearing it all from the Nsis that I didn't do much. That is true with the last few years, because I had to stay away from all of them after her physical attack on me that was pretty severe. It brought me back to the days I had to defend myself and no one helped. I didn't even expect anything except for the grand or Mom to tell this sis she was wrong how she'd attack me, so when I let her know not to attack me again, it would at least sink in. But not only didn't I get support (after supporting them for many, many years), my Nmom actually blamed me for coming at this sis! She was on the scene at the time, too. And I thought I was defending both of us because I was driving when the attack happened. It could have got us all in a jam. Thank God I kept control of the car and I handled the Nsis after carefully pulling over. And my mom was scheduled to have surgery in the near future (for health issues unrelated to the incident). But instead, I was the 'problem'  .

Well, I am saying it again. I understand where you're coming from Invisiblewoman. Wholeheartedly. I'm glad you know it's not you. Keep doing what you're doing. And keep writing it out. You are definitely on the right track.

P.S. That delayed and freeze up response thing keeps resonating with me. I had been dealing with this for years and revelations of why I did that over the years would come to me and I would just stop right in my tracks and thank God for showing me. It's a bittersweet thing to learn about yourself, as it's hard but so necessary because we have the opportunity to get to the other side and be genuinely more happy. But I still have a lot to go, given I still have a narc on my path. One you would think would be loving and caring as a relative. But we know at this age that that's not necessarily the case with their sickness. I am actually being bullied by this sis (she wouldn't see it that way), even as a grown-up woman. But by the grace of God, I am determined to keep it moving in my light.

Keep strong and moving in your own light. God bless you! 

[Invisiblewoman]

Thank you LoverofPeace.

There is a lot of stuff I want to get out. My nbrother was given license to beat me when he was a young adult and I was a young teen.

My mother engaged in the violence and did not protect me. She also told everyone I had abused her. 

When she died my aunt acted strangely and exhibited a lot N traits, and told me everyone thought I was an angry person and said if I attended her cremation I would probably upset my mother's partner.

When I confronted my aunt and questioned her words she back peddled and denied talking to my mother's partner literally after just claiming to have talked to him.

My aunt gave control to my brother and my brother stonewalled all communication. I felt like I was being punished again when she died.

I pointed out the discrepancy in my aunt's words and said I wasn't happy with how my mother's cremation was handled. I said I didn't appreciate being gaslit. I didn't want to call her a liar, and weighed my words carefully.

My aunt accused me of causing drama and yet she was doing everything to cause drama.  She completely blew up at me when I questioned her and said she was going to charge me with harassment.

There is just so much hypocrisy and crap, and it feels like they just want to dump it on me.

In sharing sometimes I fear a backlash which contributes to my hesitancy, freeze/ fawn response

[LoverofPeace]

Hi Invisiblewoman,

Believe me, I understand all of your frustrations and the need to feel heard and be safe. It's sad that you, myself, and others like us can't get it with our own family members. At the same time, even as a child I used to question things like if being related to someone necessarily meant they had our backs?

I'd like to unpack a few things you wrote:

My nbrother was given license to beat me when he was a young adult and I was a young teen.

As I mentioned, I went through this with my sister. But we're only one year apart, so I was able to defend myself. Even though he was still young, I'm sorry a grown-ass male was allowed to do that to a child.

My mother engaged in the violence and did not protect me. She also told everyone I had abused her.

That's too much that they ganged up on you = scapegoating. And this is classic gaslighting that she blamed the violence on you.

My aunt accused me of causing drama and yet she was doing everything to cause drama. She completely blew up at me when I questioned her and said she was going to charge me with harassment.

More scapegoating/gaslighting, now with your aunt in the mix. I would stop going back and forth with her or any other family member who is causing you grief; whether they're N's or not. The point is they are making you feel less than, while you know you are perfect the way you are. By the way, she does sound like an N. It's either that, or she might have fleas (when someone adopts the same traits as an N from being around them). But again, it really doesn't matter which one because the outcome is the same.  Meaning, as long as they're given fuel, it's energizing them. I know you need to get it out/be heard, but anyone that caused/is causing the harm are the wrong ones to help you to heal. I think you already know all that, it's just hard when you're in the middle of it all. I get it, because it has taken me years of practice to know when to stop engaging (whenever I even have to be around at all).

And I feel like I once had fleas and contributed to giving my sweet sis (the good and quiet one who passed on), a hard time at certain points. I was a lot younger and dumber and don't blame myself from my Nmom, Nsis, and Ngrandmom's influence over the years. And I felt abandoned and angry when my sweet sis went no contact, because I felt like she left them with me = the new scapegoat. But that helped to wake me up and I started learning more about why I did the things I did: the fighting, yelling, the depression, the anger, the low self-esteem, the stubbornness, the need to be needed and validated, etc. All these bad habits. I was still a good person and also exhibited good habits, but that would get eclisped by the wrong influences; from 'loved' ones, no less. This includes an ex who was also a big N.

So, I feel it's best to take steps to remove the drama from your life. I'm going through those steps myself to this day. Just when I thought I was there, the last few years including my Nmom's recent passing has been like 'fighting' to keep from coming back full circle into the family drama I grew up with.

Prayer and meditation on a daily, or whenever and wherever you can, helps much. God is with us, so keep believing in you! 

[Invisiblewoman]

I chose no contact from my family and just don't interact with my family. The fact my aunt threatened to charge me after saying awful stuff to me, just makes me reluctant to want to be involved with them.  I feel there is no going back now and no need to worry whether it's fleas or narcissism.

A lot of my interactions with her in the end were adversarial and stressful, and she seemed to like provoking, and would become enraged if I didn't give her a reaction she was fishing for.

Now I am slowly building a friend circle and my chosen family. It's hard; sometimes you just don't know if a person is solid until you get closer to them.

I think my family is angry I won't talk to them but what do you expect when you threaten criminal charges for disagreeing with something they said? Fleas or not that's often a dealbreaker for most.

I meditate daily and am taking my time with people.

[LoverofPeace]

Hi Invisiblewoman,

Yes, I do recall reading you went no contact with them, so you're obviously writing about what led up to that. You are to be commended for your resolve and strength. And you're right on target when you say whether fleas or not. Especially with a grown person. I can see a younger one, who's yet to learn about life and the type of people in it, having fleas. After that, it's called a choice.

So now, it's all about getting them out of our heads.

Let me ask you, what if there's a death of a family member who is good people and you have in common with your aunt and you wanted to be there? Or other family functions issues that could arise? I'm only asking because as much as I stayed away with very low contact from my N family members, these important milestones made it trickier for me. And I only found some good advice here and there but it hasn't been enough for me. I'd love for more details on this type of narcissism issue than someone dealing with a lover (unless they have children together) or a friend. Heck, I was able to end that with both, no matter what issue arises.

But these heavy family issues is making it harder. It seems like just when I conquer an aspect of narcissism, I'm faced with something else that makes me have to navigate all over again; and even more momumental. I hate that my mom isn't here, because I felt that at least my issue with her was that she was more reckless than planning how to make me miserable. But I also can't help but feel resentful I couldn't simply love and honor her without all the crazy parts and feeling like I need to tie up the loose ends all over again. 

Well, one thing's for sure is I'm glad she has shed the heaviness of this world and able to rest now: her, the Ngrandmom, and especially my sweet sis. I still see the first two mentioned as good in the end; I just know their particular flaws that has affected me. If it ended there, I could be fine with  it. It's really this Nsis now that leaves a darker cloud--but I just can't let that happen in my life anymore.

I'm glad you are meditating. That, prayer, and breathwork does wonders. 🙏🏼

[Invisiblewoman]

Let me ask you, what if there's a death of a family member who is good people and you have in common with your aunt and you wanted to be there? Or other family functions issues that could arise? I'm only asking because as much as I stayed away with very low contact from my N family members, these important milestones made it trickier for me. And I only found some good advice here and there but it hasn't been enough for me. I'd love for more details on this type of narcissism issue than someone dealing with a lover (unless they have children together) or a friend. Heck, I was able to end that with both, no matter what issue arises.

I have been so very low contact, and made to feel like the black sheep whenever I am (rarely) present at family gatherings. Most of my family is nice, but I have been excluded from the family picture long before my mother's death. My mother did some horrible things and I am just resigned to the fact that people in groups, well meaning or not, can unintentionally enable horrible and cruel behaviour. I felt subject to mobbing, and my family, who really were not all necessarily ill intended, would accuse me of mistreating my mother just the same. Difficult family dynamics have cut me from having healthy access to normal family. I think certain family have deliberately cut me off, and they have no intention of ever letting me be a regular part of family. I would love healthy family, I just don't even know where to start, and I feel at risk of exposure to unhealthy members, especially at this point.

In the end they accused me of lying about her abuse. What's really hurtful is I remember going to my aunt and uncle, and opening up about one of the episodes of physical violence at age 16. I had disclosed something that should have resulted in a call to the authorities. They were genuinely horrified in that moment, but in the end, and with the convenient passing of time, they have no such recollection of events, so I must be lying now. So in the end they sabotaged the trust I once had in them.

I remember my aunt and uncle getting off on my superintendent treating me badly. He was drunk, and it turned out, he was an alcoholic with blackout rage issues. When I said I wasn't comfortable with him being in my space to do work I was screamed at, called a fucking liar, and accused of being difficult towards such a nice man. They had no idea who this man was, and they twisted whatever I told them into being a lie, despite not even being there. If I said he was in my space I was accused of lying about him being in my space for attention. If I said he was harassing me, I was told I must have said something to provoke him. Meanwhile I did nothing at all provocative; I was just trying to rationally deal with an unreasonable situation. My family was all on board with making it all out to be all my fault. They made a difficult situation much worse.

As a response to my experience my aunt tried to give out my address to my mom when I was no contact in some weird punitive way of saying I deserved her. She was just stirring drama; I think she felt like because I had the issue with my superintendent it somehow gave her the right to violate my boundaries. Even my aunt called my mom a narcissist and an abuser. Why give out my address to her without asking? Like great, I am dealing with one irrational situation now you try to suddenly blindside me with more drama? In hindsight, watching my aunt literally try to cause situations for whatever bizarre reason, just made me really start to pay attention to her behaviour. When she accused me of harassment for confronting her, it just seemed so hypocritical.  She seemed to be so easily slighted if I didn't play along with exactly  how she manipulated a situation, or if I even politely questioned some of her tactics. It just felt like history repeating all over again. She's quick to double down and accuse you of drama while literally causing drama. Cannot take an ounce of criticism, for every pound of derision she dishes out.

I really wished it was all a big misunderstanding, but you are right, fleas or not sometimes people make choices as adults that are their responsibility, and their responsibility only. Treat someone horribly like you did when they were a child, they will make decisions as an adult to cut you out of their life to get some peace and healthy perspectives. That's what I had to do, and that's what it comes to for a lot of people.

Seeing how my aunt behaved gave me some perspective into why my mom was possibly crazy. She didn't develop in a vacuum. And that's what I really try to take from it.

[LoverofPeace]

I have been so very low contact, and made to feel like the black sheep whenever I am (rarely) present at family gatherings. Most of my family is nice, but I have been excluded from the family picture long before my mother's death. My mother did some horrible things and I am just resigned to the fact that people in groups, well meaning or not, can unintentionally enable horrible and cruel behaviour.

This might sound crazy, but I kind of wish to be looked at as the black sheep and just be done with any expectations of showing up when there's any family get-togethers, whether those members are good or bad folks. I almost envy you because it takes more to have to work through saying 'No' in order to protect my peace. I had a nice period where it was quiet for me because I wasn't showing up and all it takes is one event and it feels like I'm back on the 'hook'. It feels mean saying this with my mom's funeral being the recent event, but rest assured I wouldn't have been there at all if it wasn't about honoring her. I could have been the type of child who said she put me through enough so I don't have to be there. But I could never do that to her because I was close to her once and know she wasn't trying to ruin me. She did think she owned me, however = she could be controlling. With her though, I could laugh it off and/or explain why what she was saying wasn't right. And she might be open to listen, like someone with a teenage mind who was trying to figure things out (intelligent, yet emotionally stagnant).

In having digressed a bit, be 'happy' you're being left alone. Let a person think what they want. I'd rather they'd think I'm crazy and leave me be than keep expecting me to be somewhere with them. Some members I'd actually love to be around, but the Nsis will be right there stirring things up. And I will be at the brunt of her rages.

I also wonder if the next stop will be the mobbing, like you mentioned. That's heartless to do to anyone. I mean, why can't a grown person see that they don't really know even if they were told something about someone? I would think they would know better to ask themselves why this person is always talking about another person? Yet, the person being talked about is not doing all of that nonsense? It has to be that they love drama, too!

That also brings me to the cruelty that your aunt directed to you about this superintendent. Someone who never experienced a person, and a family member at that, do that to them would think you're exaggerating. But this does happen! And that is why abusers get away with abusing others. Just keep standing strong in not letting others hurt you. I'm glad you're not having it in your world. If more people didn't stand for it, the world would be better off and these children would be better protected by adults.

I'm sure you are wishing it would all be said and done after your mom, at least. But this aunt is still looking to stir things up. I feel you on this because I'm going through it with my Nsis. I'm hoping nothing escalates, but she already snapped at me a few times the day of my mom's funeral. I mean, she couldn't even wait another day. What made it worse was her son did, too. He was always respectful before, but I don't see him every day, for one. And two, I think he did that because he saw her do it. I just didn't say too much because of the type of day it was. With him, I think he was extra stressed because him and my mom were very close, particularly in her last years.

Still, I was feeling disarmed and now I'm hoping when I see Nsis again, that she won't keep on with trying to make me feel bad. We have some business with things being divvied--I'm just looking for some memorabilia that includes another Grand who was special to me; once again, she took over everything but is willing to part with stuff; it's just that I should have been able to be there from the beginning and not have to go low contact in the first place.

Seeing how my aunt behaved gave me some perspective into why my mom was possibly crazy. She didn't develop in a vacuum.

Bingo! It's funny too. I used to say to my mom things don't just happen in a vacuum; there's a good reason for it. She was in a lot of denial; her and my Nsis, who still is. You know what they say about the apple not falling far from the tree. Actually, some of us apples roll away from the tree and end up growing roots elsewhere to make for better fruit now and in the future.   

[Invisiblewoman]

I have been so very low contact, and made to feel like the black sheep whenever I am (rarely) present at family gatherings. Most of my family is nice, but I have been excluded from the family picture long before my mother's death. My mother did some horrible things and I am just resigned to the fact that people in groups, well meaning or not, can unintentionally enable horrible and cruel behaviour.

This might sound crazy, but I kind of wish to be looked at as the black sheep and just be done with any expectations of showing up when there's any family get-togethers, whether those members are good or bad folks. I almost envy you because it takes more to have to work through saying 'No' in order to protect my peace. I had a nice period where it was quiet for me because I wasn't showing up and all it takes is one event and it feels like I'm back on the 'hook'. It feels mean saying this with my mom's funeral being the recent event, but rest assured I wouldn't have been there at all if it wasn't about honoring her. I could have been the type of child who said she put me through enough so I don't have to be there. But I could never do that to her because I was close to her once and know she wasn't trying to ruin me. She did think she owned me, however. With her, I could laugh it off though. In having digressed a bit, be 'happy' you're being left alone. Let a person think what they want. I'd rather they'd think I'm crazy and leave me be than keep expecting me to be somewhere with them. Some members I'd actually love to be around, but the Nsis will be right there stirring things up. And I will be at the brunt of her rages.

I also wonder if the next stop will be the mobbing, like you mentioned. That's heartless to do to anyone. I mean, why can't a grown person see that they don't really know even if they were told something about someone? I would think they would know better to ask themselves why this person is always talking about another person? Yet, the person being talked about is not doing all of that nonsense? It has to be that they love drama, too!

That brings me to the cruelty that your aunt directed to you about this superintendent. Someone who never experienced a person, and a family member at that, do that to them would think you're exaggerating. But this does happen! And that is why abusers get away with abusing others. Just keep standing strong in not letting others hurt you. I'm glad you're not having it in your world. If more people didn't stand for it, the world would be better off and these children would be better protected by adults.

I'm sure you are wishing it would all be said and done after your mom, at least. But this aunt is still looking to stir things up. I feel you on this because I'm going through it with my Nsis. I'm hoping nothing escalates, but she already snapped at me a few times the day of my mom's funeral. I mean, she couldn't even wait another day. What made it worse was her son did, too. He was always respectful before, but I don't see him every day, for one. And two, I think he did that because he saw her do it. I just didn't say too much because of the type of day it was. With him, I think he was extra stressed because him and my mom were very close, particularly in her last years.

Still, I was feeling disarmed and now I'm hoping when I see Nsis again, that she won't keep on with trying to make me feel bad. We have some business with things being divvied--I'm just looking for some memorabilia that includes another Grand who was special to me; once again, she took over everything but is willing to part with stuff; it's just that I should have been able to be there from the beginning and not have to go low contact in the first place.

Seeing how my aunt behaved gave me some perspective into why my mom was possibly crazy. She didn't develop in a vacuum.

Bingo! It's funny too. I used to say to my mom things don't just happen in a vacuum; there's a good reason for it. She was in a lot of denial; her and my Nsis, who still is. You know what they say about the apple not falling far from the tree. Actually, some of us apples roll away from the tree and end up growing roots elsewhere to make for better fruit now and in the future.   

There is a clarity to being a blacksheep. There is no need to hide, or play nice, or pretend.

All they have for me is their derision so what else they got? Nothing, they don't have anything and they know it. My aunt acted as if everyone was talking about me to make me feel bad about wanting to go to my mom's cremation. I didn't want to go but I felt it was nobody's place to tell me what I should or shouldn't do when my mom died, let alone make me feel like everyone was gossiping about me. The real issue is no one was gossiping about me, they were probably speculating about my family moreso. My family again wants me to pay the price for that dark history. My aunt triangulated communication between my brother and myself, encouraging him to talk behind my back if I said anything negative about my mom. This included some of the disclosure I told my aunt. They used my disclosure against me, and she encouraged the very person who committed those abuses to tell on me if I said anything that hinted at the abuse, or showed "my anger." No one was concerned about my brother's toxic anger and need to keep me isolated during my mother's death. My family wanted me to communicate through my brother, not for myself, and they gave him complete control over the situation.

I don't care who they think they are, or how wonderful they say they are- that's just a shitty thing to do to anybody.

My memory of my brother is he will fuck you over as hard as possible when you are vulnerable; mother's death, moving, experiencing trauma- he was there doing the worst of the damage. And he has been so enabled that I am absolutely sick of it, and I am not going to take the fall for it anymore.

There is a peace in being a total black sheep, but I feel like I need to move far away to keep out of the reaches of their bullshit.

[LoverofPeace]

There is a clarity to being a blacksheep. There is no need to hide, or play nice, or pretend.

Amen to that! People think they would want the Golden Child role but that *ish* will drive you crazy trying to fit into someone's box/version of who they think you should be, and what you should be doing or saying! That's one of the reasons why the Nsis is on the nutty side, unfortunately.

My aunt acted as if everyone was talking about me to make me feel bad about wanting to go to my mom's cremation. I didn't want to go but I felt it was nobody's place to tell me what I should or shouldn't do when my mom died, let alone make me feel like everyone was gossiping about me.

Did you end up going? I almost didn't go to my Ngrandmom's, but I did after much prayer and reflection of myself, and not anyone else with their input or gossip. I always wanted to honor my mom and grandmom once that day came, so I did it. But it wasn't easy, and only because of the Nsis. Crazy how just one person can do so much damage. But this is a very personal choice, for sure.

There is a peace in being a total black sheep, but I feel like I need to move far away to keep out of the reaches of their bullshit.

Do you live in close proximity? That's what I don't want to end up happening with the Nsis. She lives many states away but she travels back to my home state (but not my home), or the next state over where her boyfriend lives. She keeps calling this home after many years of having had moved out of town. I pray she doesn't come back here for good. Like you said, 'peace'. That's why I volunteer for being the black sheep, if that's what it takes.

We deserve our peace.

 

[Invisiblewoman]

There is a clarity to being a blacksheep. There is no need to hide, or play nice, or pretend.

Amen to that! People think they would want the Golden Child role but that *ish* will drive you crazy trying to fit into someone's box/version of who they think you should be, and what you should be doing or saying! That's one of the reasons why the Nsis is on the nutty side, unfortunately.

My aunt acted as if everyone was talking about me to make me feel bad about wanting to go to my mom's cremation. I didn't want to go but I felt it was nobody's place to tell me what I should or shouldn't do when my mom died, let alone make me feel like everyone was gossiping about me.

Did you end up going? I almost didn't go to my Ngrandmom's, but I did after much prayer and reflection of myself, and not anyone else with their input or gossip. I always wanted to honor my mom and grandmom once that day came, so I did it. But it wasn't easy, and only because of the Nsis. Crazy how just one person can do so much damage. But this is a very personal choice, for sure.

There is a peace in being a total black sheep, but I feel like I need to move far away to keep out of the reaches of their bullshit.

Do you live in close proximity? That's what I don't want to end up happening with the Nsis. She lives many states away but she travels back to my home state (but not my home), or the next state over where her boyfriend lives. She keeps calling this home after many years of having had moved out of town. I pray she doesn't come back here for good. Like you said, 'peace'. That's why I volunteer for being the black sheep, if that's what it takes.

We deserve our peace.

 

I wasn't allowed to go to her cremation.  My aunt said I had to ask my brother who in turn told me that my mother's partner was too upset to have me. He tried to say I'd upset him.  Sort of a nice way of saying I know I fucked up and abused you so let me make you feel like you have done something wrong or say you'll potentially will have an outburst. It's for your own good.

After the cremation was over my aunt said my mother's partner invited me but it wasn't her problem to tell me. When I confronted her she denied ever saying that and then claimed she hadn't talked to him in 6 years.

When I pointed out the discrepancy she went into a rage and accused me of being psychotic and then said she was going to have me charged with harassment.


They live a few towns over which is too close.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi invisiblewoman,

I've read through some of your posts to catch up. I'm a long time member but I have not been here lately. I am very sorry that you've been through all of this miserable behaviour from your "family".

The way these people have treated you is horrid. It reminds me of a video I watched from Patrick Teahan, where he explains the triangulation that is used in dysfunctional families. He describes my FOO perfectly - the narc is always the victim. yep.

I went NC with my FOO almost 20 years ago. And in being on these boards over the years and learning about narc abuse, I've realized that there was no way my FOO was ever going to change. They are committed to DARVO as a way of life.

For them, if they are the victim, then they can forever and always blame someone else for their crappy behaviours.

All of the stuff my FOO did to me before I went NC, makes sense to me now. Their anger didn't make any sense to me back when I was involved in their messed up chaotic dramas, but it makes sense to me now.

But making sense of it is only one part of the process that I went through. The other process, was to really understand why I could not be around them. Why their lack of concern for me, mixed in with a few moments that felt 'normal' or at least more 'typical' resulted in me feeling the way I did.

I could never count on any of them to show up in a good way, when I needed them to - and that was hard to process.

I had to realize that any 'good' moment I had with my dysfunctional relatives, was because they were in a good mood in that moment. That exact nano-second on that day, at that hour, everything 'aligned' for them to be in a good mood. But the problem with moods is that they change.

The stable traits you could count on from my relatives was that they lacked empathy and did not like having to help others. In fact, they really resented anyone who expected them to 'stay' in their good mood - and acted as if everything was this HUGE affront to their right to feel whatever they wanted (and to be fragile about everything going on in their life, as if the sky is always falling for them only). Those resentful behaviours always returned, whereas the 'good mood' they were in, came and went.

As a child I had no idea how to separate out all of this, and to know that when things were 'better' with them, that was just the mood they were in. No child is equipped to know that mom is nice to me today because she's in some more manic part of her NPD drama cycle. As a kid, I really fell for the good days / bad days routine that my parents both had. I had no choice. I didn't know how people worked. I certainly didn't know that narcissists run on supply, and so when they are supplied with attention, they are 'happy' and when that supply goes away their mood changes. How they treat us is dependent on how much supply they are getting.

Anytime they feel criticized, or really anything at all, their mood can shift immediately. Looking back now, any attempt I made to have clarity around anything in my FOO, I was gaslit and invalidated: "That didn't happen, you don't know what you are talking about, and if it did happen, its mostly or all your fault trees". I never got any other response, in all the years I tried to talk about what was really going on with them. And sadly I can see that you are not getting anywhere with your attempt to get clarity with them either.

I am grateful for the info that is out there today from Peter Levine and others. The abuse was bad enough, but being denied your reality is what causes more damage because being denial your reality, means you are alone to 'know' what happened, and their denial persists and it is something you run into over and over, even if the abusive situation is in the past, their denial is very much in your present day reality. If they could acknowledge what happened and how it affected you, that would be amazing. But not one person in my fairly large FOO systems has yet to acknowledge what happened and how it affected me. And I will be NC for almost 20 years soon.

20 years have passed by and not one person I'm related to, knows how to sit and calmly listen to me.

Their denial is their most important thing - and they will never even know that about themselves. 

Had I stayed in contact with my FOO, my entire life would be spent in conflict with them because I cannot agree to rug sweeping. That is where the conflict is between me and them. 

My FOO members sweep things under the rug, but I can't live like that. I know what that does to me and to our relationships, because sweeping things under the rug is about denial. it is about saying "nothing to see here folks, let's pretend we are a nice normal family". It is about lying. And it is incompatible with healthy relating.

I was never going to agree to the rug sweeping. Never. Like you, I have dreams where I'm telling people the truth.

Rug sweeping isn't possible for me. It isn't in you - it isn't in us to sweep it all under the rug. That denial causes way too many problems.

But my FOO things telling the truth is what causes problems. So there's the conflict we would never resolve. So then the truth teller of course is going to be the target of their anger, because now you are upsetting the system, and "everyone else agreed to sweep it under the rug - why didn't you????"

When one person wants to end the denial, and the other people do not, the people who want to stay in denial will 'win' because they are going to invest all their energy into staying in denial. You can't get someone out of their denial, they have to do that themselves.

No matter how many nice moments, no how many good moods they were in for various microseconds during family visits, I was never going to fit in to their twisted little system of sweeping things under the rug. I think that is what we realize when we try to fix what's wrong.

They are not going to change, and they are not going to understand what you are doing with your life. No one in my FOO understands why making sense of things helps me, why learning helps me, why getting breaks from being lied to and gaslit helps me, and why I seek healthy relationships with other people instead of them. My FOO was never going to understand any of that. It has been much easier to heal, without being gaslit by them every 3 days. The truth teller is doing something with her life that is beyond comprehensible to her FOO. They can't imagine how telling the truth and taking responsibility would improve anything. That denial they have is all they've ever known.

In my FOO, the truth teller is often excluded from family events such as when someone is hospitalized or a funeral or other type event. They act like this is for their own protection, which is what it sounds like they did to you. But that's all about denial.

You're a truth teller, and these families know how to keep the truth teller out and they close ranks so intuitively. I was blocked from seeing a relative who was dying, and everyone acted like it was obvious that I'd be excluded and not allowed to visit during the last days at the hospital. That was just more gaslighting.

They will let strangers in while excluding the truth teller. It is shocking how families like this all behave the same. so much energy put into protecting the abusers. Seems the truth teller is always treated really poorly.

I've come to believe that families don't come out of denial. One person says enough is enough, breaks free, and has to leave the abusers behind. We're lucky if we have any relatives left in our lives when we start telling the truth about the abuse. It makes me sad. But my life is forever better for getting the abusers out of my life through NC.

I'm glad you are putting your energy into your own healing.

Trees

[Invisiblewoman]

I have been looking through the glossary and read about imposed isolation and it really reminded me of what I am going through and my fear of being exposed and ruined for talking.

I sometimes think it must be me and I shouldn't have confronted the behaviour but on the other hand as adults you can respectfully disagree and make reasonable points. You are only human and the reaction I got was over the top, and it forced me into going no contact. Honestly I think they may have tried to report me or forcefully committed me as they tried in the past.

I was also thinking about how I can feel so comfortable around my brother. I feel at home when things are normal but when he starts a manipulation cycle he is cold and abusive and shows no compunction towards lying and stealing and even getting physically violent.  I am trauma bonded and it's like when things are good I really try to soak that up. It makes my relationships outside my family hard because my sense of normalcy is skewed.

[LoverofPeace]

In my FOO, the truth teller is often excluded from family events such as when someone is hospitalized or a funeral or other type event. They act like this is for their own protection, which is what it sounds like they did to you. But that's all about denial.

Treesgrowslowly, your post was awesome to read. You said you haven't been on here in awhile, but it's no wonder. You seem to be on a good road with the 20-year NC of your FOO. Though it's hard to be excluded especially for major family events like hospitalization or funerals, there could be a brighter side, of such a dark subject, that I can attempt to shed light on.

When you're made to be the black sheep, you don't have to be involved in the things that will inevitably be 'attached' to those events. For example, on the heels of my grandmother's and mother's funeral came the inheritance money and material things like pictures and other momentos. I am sorting through these things with my Nsis now. And it just goes on, because she is not yet ready to part with my Nmom's things yet being her passing just happened. So, how does one start saying, 'Tough cookies, I'm distancing myself from you?' When the business side of that needs to be taken care of? I had her do practically everything alone once they both passed (Ngrand last year and Nmom recently) while I stayed out of the picture to keep the peace--especially mine, but for everyone's own good (problem is, they don't necessarily know it's for their own good, too).

So, there's more to go. But for me, it was more important to step back in to be there for their funerals. More specifically, I was there over the years, things heated up with them, I stepped out of the picture and stayed out (with minimal contact every blue moon via phone), and then the grand and mom passed and I stepped back in to honor them. I had to do that in the end, as I knew my peace would be greater than not doing that. And I didn't want that hanging over me. I wanted to experience that closure. But this is a personal thing for every person, so it sucks when someone is judged how they do it.

With that said, if you are one to not even be 'invited', that is the 'bright' side. Because more can come up that needs to be taken care of, and this could include legally. Being a close and not a distant relative or friend, that makes it almost impossible to not deal with them. Not that I never wanted to do that for my elders, it's because I was forced to have to dread it with all the chaos that comes with the narcs' way of thinking.

I was also thinking about how I can feel so comfortable around my brother. I feel at home when things are normal but when he starts a manipulation cycle he is cold and abusive and shows no compunction towards lying and stealing and even getting physically violent.  I am trauma bonded and it's like when things are good I really try to soak that up. It makes my relationships outside my family hard because my sense of normalcy is skewed.

Invisiblewoman, are you in touch with your brother? I am curious because what you said resembles what I feel like I'm going through with my Nsis, with being in contact with her again to deal with the things of my grands and mom. After at least 5 years, I strangely feel that familiar 'comfort' around her, though I wonder when the other shoe will drop. And then, I also wonder because I let her have it pretty good 5 years ago (before I exited from the FOO), if that will keep her in check. Because then I can deal with the here and now better. Honestly, she is in her glory and element when making the plans to hang out and then with hanging out, so I wonder if letting her do things in that capacity could work out.

It's almost as exhausting trying to figure out how to keep someone that 'close' to you (in blood) away from you forever, than going ghost for good. It's because of these events that will inevitably come up and the conflicting feelings with the  familiar 'comfort' thing.

Thus, be happy to be a black sheep.