Ok what just happened. So gaslit I don’t know anymore

[sunshine702]

Ok so I left / was asked to end it.

This time it seems for real.  Same fight.  To be honest I think he/ we had this fight on purpose.  So it would be over.

I honestly am not sure what happened except I guess us. 

He texted me at work and asked if he could have his mom and her brother in town from Chicago up for dinner.  I said sure if you will cook.  I also texted her and said S will cook and dinner at 7 - he gets off at 5.

Well 5 pm rolled around and no one was at her house.

So when S got home I was confused if anyone was coming.  Oh they were at the grandkid's soccer game oh ok.

Then we proceeded to have this blowout fight about this miscommunication.  I honestly do not understand it because this was a simple one sentence fix in normal world instead I am being accused of being rude and disrespectful?!  And me trying to explain that I feel he gets really angry at me when his mom is concerned. 

It proceeded into slapping my cup out of my hand and him throwing my purse and suitcase on the backyard!!  Again kinda shocking over this MISCOMMUNICATION!

So can I ask you guys what happened so I don't feel so crazy.

So it is over now over this so I am looking at it going what the heck??!!

Did he start and escalate a fight to end it?  Did I?  I didn't mean to. 

[sunshine702]

I admit I was hurt that no one kept me in the loop at all.  Again from my phone I did not see anyone confirming - they did to him not to me.  Again this is a miscommunication not an opportunity to tell me how rude I am how disrespectful I am and how I lie.  I really did not really see any of this until he slapped my coffee cup. 

Do you think weak people go this route to passively end it.  Because that is what I have been feeling for months that I am not being heard on purpose.

Avoidant avoids

[Catothecat]

Sounds like you've become the designated "bad person."  My NPDex would do things like this--create a situation then blame me for the outcome.  Usually I would accept the blame because I didn't want to create a scene even if I had no real idea what had just happened.  He was setting me up so he could find an excuse to tell me why I was the terrible person in the relationship, how I didn't try hard enough, how I was unsupportive etc.  In reality, he was the one with the issues about the marriage (i.e., he wanted a marriage but not a relationship, I was there to take care of him but not expected to have any needs of my own) and would find ways to make it all about me in order to avoid responsibility or blame. 

In the end, when I finally left, I was again the one who "ruined" our marriage, a marriage he had no investment in and didn't want except as a convenience to him.  He did as he pleased all the time and when I finally decided I'd had enough, I was the one in the wrong.  Because as a NPD, he could do no wrong. 

So I wonder if he deliberately left you out of the loop just so this outcome would occur.  It may be passive/aggressive behavior, it may be avoidant behavior, but it's still behavior that seeks a specific outcome and thus has a deliberate intention. 

[moglow]

Well. What was rude and disrespectful was plans for dinner in your home being changed without letting you know. He may have been embarrassed to be called out in it, may have gotten distracted honestly forgotten to tell you. But it launching into an argument and him slapping the cup out of your hands? Throwing purse and suitcase in the yard (you'd already packed?)? It is what it is.

I guess we should find appreciation that the decision was made and carried out, however awkward and uncomfortable it may be. Relationships don't always end well or even with a clean break, but honestly this sounds mutual. So I guess there could be some gratitude that at the end of the day you're in agreement. 

Just take a breath or seven, get some rest and something to eat, and keep moving forward. (Btw liquor stores have great moving boxes - sturdy and reinforced, easy sizes to carry.)

[Rebel13]

Hi Sunshine, I am concerned for you because a lot of times physical abuse starts with throwing objects and similar behaviors. Like moglow said, if he (currently says) he wants you to leave, and you want to leave, I think leaving is definitely in order, for your own safety if nothing else. Is there a domestic violence agency near you that you can contact for help if you need it? It sounds to me like your partner's primary relationship with his mother, and you are some kind of appliance or window dressing to do chores, bring in money, or mask the weirdness of their enmeshment to the outside world.

In your words I kind of hear you asking if it is "OK" to leave, and I don't think you need permission from anyone. All you have to do is ask if the relationship is acceptable to you. I've been reading your posts for a while now and honestly you sounded so happy in the one where you said you left a few weeks ago. I would not tolerate an intimate partner slapping a coffee cup from my hand, throwing my belongings around, or any other kind of threatening physical behavior. That is the kind of stuff my abusive dad did, before he started hitting people, and it's a deal breaker for me.

I wish you all the luck in the world figuring out what you need to do to resolve this situation acceptably FOR YOU. I don't give a rat's ass what your partner or his mother think about anything you do. 

[sunshine702]

I signed on the apartment today.  I bring them some more forms tomorrow morning after work and I may be able to move in the 24th.

Yes this is huge this is a decade relationship but the emeshmwnt/ emotional incest was getting to me.  I could see it clear as day but even just now he texted me to "watch it" over anything about what I wrote about mom.  The mask is off Nz frankly I give her a mint or two until she moves into the house with him.  It would no surprise me.  Being able to speak it real to you guys helps a lot.  Yes that trial run a couple of weeks ago was a burden lifted I can leave if I want.  I have somewhere to go and I can work out the details and start fresh

[sunshine702]

No the relationship is not acceptable to me. We had the anxious avoidant trap that left me a shell of my old confident person and him raging at me.  It was deeply embarrassing and toxic and made us into people we didn't want to be - throwing empty suitcases screaming get out.

And the mom the just beneath the surface super controlling!! Of all things on that land.    Yikes her knocking on the door was nightmarish for me.  I built a beautiful home for us and really think she wants it and he wants her to have it. 

I saw this once before with a Narc - the flash of covet in their eyes. I saw that in her eyes when we moved it and it scared me.

I begged to be number one to have him stand up to her and say no to her or that is my wife.  So yes I was mad as hell at her but I was also secretly mad as hell at him for appeasing her endlessly.

She is going to get more and more needy I bet.  I give it two months before she is sleeping up there "because of her health".

[sunshine702]

Yeah in the real world they have their phone's on them at the game.  She deliberately did not text me back.  Scott also had 2 hours between 5 and 7 to cook and happy go Lucky tell me oh sorry they are coming I took the meat out at 3pm when I got home.  Then he screams get out and lightly abuses me. 

This is a set up  he purchased this house in his name only and has been making me feel like this is not my home/. Narc mom wants it. It could not be more clear.  She is going to over blow a health concern soon watch so Sc has to have her in the second bedroom up there.

She doesn't like her dumpy house anymore.  All alone.  I think she has dementia.  Digging through garbage cans for wire.  Looking confused and old.  She bought an expensive camper van - she was supposed to sell the RV before but hasn't I wonder if she will. And she is going to take a three month tour with 2 nd grandkid.  She is 13.  I don't see that a very good replacement for her husband.  I think the kid will be miserable and they will come home early.  Right then cue heath concern and move in with me mom. That Suppressive Rude person is gone.

The older brother and his kids despise her and are Nc and send back Christmas gifts.  They see it.  He is out of the will of course

[Rebel13]

Oh best of luck, sunshine, I'm thinking of you but I can see YOU GOT THIS.  You're going to get yourself and your life back and just thrive.

[MaxedOut]

...launching into an argument and him slapping the cup out of your hands? Throwing purse and suitcase in the yard (you'd already packed?)? It is what it is.

I feel like accepting "it is what it is" rather than trying to understand x, y, z factors is my big current stage of defogging. I have spent years poring over books and resources on bipolar, borderline, and recently, abuse. The piece that is clicking for me is that response of trying to understand, trying to get her to understand my perceptions/motives/etc., is largely how we got here.

Here being a place where I have accepted being treated in ways I am really not ok with. Ways I would not treat someone else. Ways I no longer want to be treated. Ways that I can't seem to prevent fully no matter how much understanding, compliance, PD communication advice I use (not to say there aren't things that make it better or worse, but it is never near what I want/need in a relationship. Here being a place where almost all of her world and most of mine center on her current moods, thinking, needs, etc. (I feel like a moon orbiting her planet). Here is where I also suspect having me bend over backwards to understand and accommodate her mental illnesses has, unfortunately, made her more sick as she has been able to have a bubble from reality and gotten more distorted in thinking, emotions, and behaviors.

So my question would be: what does it matter if it was subconscious fight starting, conscious attempt to end things, mutual misunderstanding, or just out of control behavior? It is what it is-a totally out of proportion response and abusive.

I still think about how to prevent/manage things, tools to use, safe ways to handle situations, and what I can do to prepare for various futures. Not spending time, energy, and emotions to "make it make sense" has been a big benefit. I can love her and know this isn't how love should look.

It's like the common question about abuse - "Does s/he understand this is mistreatment/abuse?" You can spin your wheels looking at things like what they said, how they see the incident, whether they treat you that way in front of others, whether they'd accept that treatment themselves, or how they act after.

But ultimately, whatever understanding you glean leads to three bad doors: (A) yes, they understand and choose to do it to you anyway, (B) yes, but they can't control their reaction, which is deadly dangerous, or (C) no, so this person is not safe in society or relationships. And let's face it, they likely aren't spending hours trying to see our side, understand our perspective...

With my SO, I get accused of gaslighting all the time, and blamed/scapegoated for stuff like this. It is not worth my time (self) to figure out if my SO had a memory lapse, if we thought we were on the same page, if I misconstrued something, or whatever other ingredients. She will dysregulate most of the time when expectations/plans go wonky, when she has messed up something, or when she has accepted responsibility to do something (like make dinner for guests) but is unable or unwilling to, or is miffed I didn't do most of the prep work. The details are not the issue - it is what it is.

Sunshine, I am so sorry you were subjected to that. Good job though. You made a compromise that considers both parties, you placed responsibility for prep where it should go, and you were cordial about the arrangements. You are not responsible for his meltdown. And you certainly are not responsible for the angry accusations and physical outbursts.

[moglow]

So my question would be: what does it matter if it was subconscious fight starting, conscious attempt to end things, mutual misunderstanding, or just out of control behavior? It is what it is-a totally out of proportion response and abusive.

Much better stated than mine, thank you! Please know I wasn't trying to minimize it, but all the whys and what ifs have tormented and held so many of us back, when there was nothing to be done but accept our own part and carry on. 

Hoping today was a shade easier for you.

[MaxedOut]

...but all the whys and what ifs have tormented and held so many of us back, when there was nothing to be done but accept our own part and carry on.
[/quote]

This, so much. And it specifically takes up the space we need for the big picture part of stepping back for that clear view of our own part, which is incredibly valuable (though freaking itchy to dig into). I'm not talking about taking responsibility for abusive behavior or the victim-blaming crap about choosing to stay. I think those who say they'd never take getting mistreated have simply been lucky enough not to have the right (wrong) set of circumstances arise.

But, I don't want to repeat this dynamic in the future, even in much lighter versions. I want to understand the "me stuff" that got me here. Dissecting these types of events has little to say about that when the other person has a personality disorder. Or the questions that are fruitful are very different.

With a few exceptions, the things I get accused of and how I get characterized in this relationship would not match up with how prior partners, family, or colleagues think of me (like not match at all). I don't get in conflicts that spiral or involve my stuff getting thrown with anyone else. I can't judge things from inside the PD's framework-that habit needs to stop.

Take a step back and look more generally, Sunshine-your actions were totally reasonable. There wasn't malintent. If anything, you erred on the side of over-responsibility (watching the clock to make sure things went smoothly for a dinner you didn't set up). If there was a miscommunication-that happens all the time, part of life. Does it seem reasonable for a coworker to smack your coffee and throw your laptop if you get your wires crossed? Would you question whether *you* are the one that was rude and disrespectful? Living in their worldview is powerfully warping.

What I realize is that my internal instincts about what feels ok, or loving, or acceptable, or uncomfortable, or confusing haven't been off base. It's the thinking part, the putting more importance on understanding what's going on inside them than my instincts, or the wisdom of my adult-whole-embodied-self. There have been faulty processes laid down here-some built on weaker areas of interpersonal skills, some speaking to some immature impulses around desirable mate traits, and some developed sheerly to get through things.

I have rightly valued my empathy and desire to understand people and dynamics, but undervalued the importance of being really clear internally about what is most important to me and the value (to me and others) of communicating that. The analytical part can just block clear knock-it-off points where the "means" are irrelevant to the acceptability of an "end" that is harmful.

[sunshine702]

So I had a Narc ex who knew one of my triggers was being left alone oin a foreign place on vacation.  It happened to me in my previous marriage (I found out later due to gambling).  It was an epic trigger for me.   So when he was in the discard faze he did JUST THAT to get me furious.  I just think this is that. Dinnner— It makes zero rational sense and the relationship is really not much at this point anyway.  He rages if anything is amiss around the cult of his Narc mom. She will move in there in the next year mark my words.  She will claim health

[sunshine702]

There is another woman 1 his mom.  This is emotional incest and when the husband died now Scott is the husband.  Cooking dinner.  I hate her but I hate him too for allowing this.  Right in the head men tell their mom to stop.  This is all punishment for calling out her junk field.  The grandkids started giving me dirty looks right then. It reminded me of my childhood with my GC brother.  And just yesterday he texted me "you're not family". Yep right there is what I am upset about.  Also there was a balloon releasing ceremony for the husband that died.  I liked G - he was a happy go lucky projects guy.  They did not invite me I just happened to bring my trash out (it's a car ride) and saw it.


Not family. After a decade.  Time to move on I deserve a partner a real partner who has my back.  My work is going good. My hotel really rallied around me and my Amazon is flexible.

And my apt is beautiful and almost affordable!

[square]

With a few exceptions, the things I get accused of and how I get characterized in this relationship would not match up with how prior partners, family, or colleagues think of me (like not match at all). I don't get in conflicts that spiral or involve my stuff getting thrown with anyone else.

This is exactly the realization that changed things for me. I had previously wholly believed that WE were volatile. But one day I realized that there was no drama with any other relationship save one, my best friend who had a BPD diagnosis among other diagnoses.

Not saying I was not responsible for my part or that I didn't bring anything to the dynamic, but it was an epiphany to realize that the issue was not actually a 50-50 situation where I caused as much toxicity as he did.

And he saw me very differently than anyone else. Other people described me in frankly opposite ways as he described me.

[MaxedOut]

Yes, like I am the person people want at the table to think through tricky stuff, to figure out solutions that everyone feels good about, etc. Of course, with BPD splitting my spouse also sees these qualities but often in a resentful way. Then sees the opposite. Looking at other relationships (present and past) is helpful in getting Out of the FOG. As is pulling back and looking at things from your own framework and values. Questions like "Did I have good intent?" (if there was some passive aggressiveness, or similar, was I not direct for reasons that are about me more broadly or reasonable apprehension of PD response?); "If I feel guilt, is it about external reactions or not acting in alignment with my own values?"; "Did I act reasonably close wo how I would want to be treated?"; etc.

Sunshine, I am so glad to hear of the progress extricating from this treatment and what sounds like a whole mess of a family tree. 

[Rebel13]

Time to move on I deserve a partner a real partner who has my back.  My work is going good. My hotel really rallied around me and my Amazon is flexible.

And my apt is beautiful and almost affordable!

You do deserve that partner Sunshine! I'm so glad you have support and things are going well so far.

[sunshine702]

This isn't the first time he has smacked things out of my hands OVER NOTHING!!  Or actually for being kind of excited.

So when we moved in to a rental house the previous owners begged us to look for their cat and gave us a number -/absolutely!!

One day I was carrying an Amazon box and I just happened to look out the back door and see a tiger calico on the fence.  IT'S A CAT.  I think it's the cat!  Quick grab a can of tuna I said.  He knocked the packages out of my hand and stormed away.

I slept on the couch that night and cried knowing this is a problem. The cat never came back

[notrightinthehead]

There seems to be much more than the mil. You might have had a lucky escape from an abusive relationship.
Did you not feel scared around him? Walking on eggshells, trying not to upset him?

[sunshine702]

Yes he is very tightly wound.  And yes eggshells.  Over everything.  He has been clinically diagnosed with BPD so the splitting black.   My actions will be seen as Rude, Disrespectful, and I will be playing the victim. He says these phrases over and over. It is often over his family and expectations.  Or For "talking too loudly in a grocery store and not standing out of the way". This has happened and I found it bizarre.  Or once I was relating how I hate Safeway's app coupons.  More bizarre rage — over a story!

What is funny is the whole not talking during this is my usual life. I joke about No Talk Tuesdays as he has homework and we will say zero words

It helps me to relate these stories.  This is not normal and is getting worse