The Pain Body and it's importance in all of us, especailly PDs

[LemonLime]

Hi All,
I think I've posted this Eckhart Tolle link before on the pain body, but I was reviewing it again in terms of my PDsib, and I think it is so relevant.  In a way, it explains almost everything about her behavior.  We all have a pain body, but I think the PD has a very very strong one and they typically do not recognize it.  I am practicing recognizing my own.  I really resonate with ET's description of the pain body taking over a person almost like the person becomes unconscious.  What do others think of this idea?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcYrm7h86Rk

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi LemonLime,

Thanks for posting this video!

I think this understanding of emotion is helpful yes. I think that what he is describing in his video, is what others describe as the "amygdala hijack". Dr. John Gottman has long spoken about being "flooded" and so once our system is in fight of flight, we are flooded with emotions that most of us experience as painful (i.e. anxiety, fear, anger, helplessness, etc...).

Once a person is in that painful state, they are not going to stay in the conversation in a calm way. That "conversation" is now over. Now their defense mechanisms are going to take over. Any attempt to share how you feel, is probably going to go very poorly at that point - they will simply react in negative, hurtful ways.

I agree with his advice that sometimes, we just need to remove ourselves and wait for the other person's cortisol levels to drop (.i.e. they calm down).

As the adult child of narc parents, I grew up with parents who were in their pain body, and completely unaware of its effect on their own children. They still do not have this awareness. Worse, they possess a belief that their own children were/are responsible for rescuing them from their pain body.

I am just grateful that I grew up without developing a PD myself. At least I can learn about how to manage my own pain body. When I'm flooded with cortisol - as is the case during the pain body episode - I do not go around destroying people's sense of self, or my relationship with them. But I have seen PD parents do exactly that. Every time they are in their pain body, people around them pay a price.

I also realized that some people don't even remember how they acted when they were in their pain body. You ask them about it a day or two later, and they don't recall. Have you noticed that too?

Trees

[LemonLime]

Thanks Trees.  I agree with all you have said.  It's very sad that your parents expected you and your sibs to rescue them from themselves.  It's totally inappropriate and no person (let alone a child) could rescue another person from their pain body attack.

I agree that some people don't even seem to remember their actions during these attacks.  I find that very vexing, because with my sib she sort of acts like she doesn't remember.  She acts like nothing terrible happened and that she has nothing to apologize for.  So I am stuck wondering if I am annoyed with her for something she doesn't even remember, as if she were sleepwalking.  But I suspect she does remember at least some of it because at times she "slips" and mentions something that I said while she was in a rage.  So the memory is not totally gone.

I guess it shouldn't matter whether she remembers or not.  I still need to stay away.  But my brain seems to want to know....does she remember, or not?

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi LemonLime,

It is hard to imagine what it is like for other people. Maybe if she actively works to recall the event in question, she is right back in the emotions that caused her pain body - and she is probably not wanting to relive any of it.

What I have observed, basically my entire life, is that if a PDs is willing to remember, they will 'remember' their version.

Which usually means they have a story about what happened, and this story puts them as the victim. They are not going to recall context or other factors that would give someone else clues as to what else was going on...it will be a memory about that time that something bad happened to them (yet again).

The fight they had with you becomes a story about how badly you treated them.

Narcissistic people are stuck in that state where nothing is really their fault. Someone else is to blame. Their "memories" help them confirm this.

So I'm not surprised that she can recall things you said to her when she was upset...and of course she omits the part where she was acting poorly.

Even if she could recall what she did that day to upset you, she won't understand it the way that you do. She probably believes that she's supposed to behave how ever she wants, and your job to accept her "the way that she is". I have heard narcs in my life sing this song and dance my entire life. 

They possess a fundamental misunderstanding about relationships. Many narcs I've met truly believe that their job is to behave however they want, and if we have problems with their behaviour, then that is something for us to figure out. They do not go home and learn from ET videos! They do not learn what we want them to learn.

They go home and think, "well LemonLime and Trees just have to treat me better next time"! Does that sound like something you've noticed as well?

Trees

[LemonLime]

Oh yes, Trees.  You nailed it.  It's uncanny how similar the PD responses seem to be, in terms of the PDs having a "flavor" to their way of being in the world.  My sib is VICTIM first.  It is her favorite role, although she would fight to the death claiming that she is victim only because she is so often victimized by Persecutors.  She is 3 years older than I am, and strangely even as a very young child of 3 or so, I felt that my 6-year-old sister felt persecuted by me.  ME?  A 3-year old child?  Now I realize how absurd that is.  But I distinctly remember feeling so resented by her, and knowing she felt the world was against her (at 6 years old).   And I have carried that shame or guilt or identity all my life.  Like I did something WRONG to her.  Likely what I did wrong was to be born (a therapist pointed this out to me, and I immediately burst into tears).

As you say, they possess a fundamental misunderstanding about relationships.  And "fundamental" truly is the key word.  It is so basic and so foundational that it is very very difficult to change.  It began so early.  And it has been fed in so many ways. It's entrenched.

Thanks for your input and insight Trees.