Hello and thank you

[Beachstone]

Hello everyone!

Firstly, thank you for such a terrific site and forum. I've been absorbing the articles and forum chat for a few months, plus many of the recommended books and videos, and I'm enormously grateful.

A bit about my situation. I've been in a relationship with my SO for 11 years, and we have a 9 year old son.

My partner has been quite open with me about his OCD, anxiety, alcohol and cannabis addiction, and depression. Some years ago he mentioned briefly that he was told by a psychologist or psychiatrist that he might have BPD (I didn't know what it was at the time.) I forgot about this until recently, when I was at my wits end trying to figure out what was behind the rages, disordered thinking, substance abuse, low self esteem and then remorse.
I started reading about BPD - and oh boy - it sure sounds like him. He seems to meet all the criteria. He is in therapy, but appointments are infrequent and I don't think address BPD.

For a long time, I thought the rages were my fault, I thought I could help. I now realise there is nothing I can do.

As I sit here, staying out of his way after another rage followed by silent treatment for the last 3 days, I am thinking I need to look at separating as I'm so so tired of treading on eggshells. It may take months or years to make this happen, but I can already see our son has trouble regulating emotions and I worry about the influence his Dad's rages must be having on him.

He was away recently for work for 2 months, and life was definitely easier for me. My son missed him though.

Before my partner, I was in a relationship, with someone I'm pretty sure was NPD, for 8 years. I'm still getting over that traumatic relationship. My grandmother also fits the NPD picture as have former bosses. I have form with these people!

I don't have a lot of support as my sister and Dad died recently. My mum is bipolar and tends to lean on me. I'm currently seeing a therapist for support and have in the past as well (the last one said I need to leave the relationship). I've started to reconnect with friends. My partner has no friends himself anymore.

What I'm struggling with is that my partner has also been my best friend, and person I confide in. He can be a beautiful gentle person, and so it feels strange to not share how I'm feeling with him. He is a great sounding board, very caring and considerate, when he is doing well. He also relies on me to be his friend, which makes his rages at me confusing and hurtful.

I'm realising now that we can't share with them how much they hurt us.

So what do we say? Do we just MC/GR? Is there any safe way to communicate our hurt or anger, or is that just too painful for them?

Generally I'm a strong person, although a people pleaser and I know I need to work on my boundaries. As I get closer to menopause, I do seem to be getting better at standing up for myself, which is something positive at least.

Anyway, thank you all and I look forward to being part of this community.

 

[Starboard Song]

I'm realising now that we can't share with them how much they hurt us.

So what do we say? Do we just MC/GR? Is there any safe way to communicate our hurt or anger, or is that just too painful for them?

Welcome to Out of the FOG! It sounds like you've already been reading and learning, so I don't need to direct you to the Toolbox. I would say that yes, you do Medium Chill, but no, you do not do Grey Rock. These are all informal terms, with sometimes unclear usage, so let me explain.

Grey Rock is -- at a minimum -- trying to be so bland as to be uninteresting. At a minimum, the goal is to be a non-interesting target for aggression. But generally the goal is described in a more robust way: to make yourself actually not at all interesting to the PD, so they move on not from aggression, but from you altogether. You can imagine this working well to resolve an office conflict, to evade a member of a friend group, or to deter an unwanted romantic interest. But if you share a household with someone and have no plans to change that, GR is easily interpreted as a hostile act of emotional estrangement.

Medium Chill is a better concept, I think, when you are forced to continue in close contact with someone and you seek to avoid hostility. You engage kindly, talk about life, spend time together. But you evade the deep closeness and emotional vulnerability of a normal relationship. Any topic that is hard you just drop. Any topic that can expose you to injury or insult, you just drop.

This is no way to live. I am so sorry for you finding yourself here. But step one is to take no drastic steps. Stabilize, protect, assess, and then carefully make the best choices you can make. Take your time, but don't fail to do the next good thing when you are ready.

So much good luck to you.

[bloomie]

Hi Beachstone - adding another warm welcome to you. I am thankful you have found this wonderful community and are making good use of the resources here. I would imagine it is hard to figure out what may be addictive behaviors and side effects from the use of substances and what might be entrenched personality challenges with your partner.

How hard to have such complex and confusing messages and experiences with someone you dearly love and share a valuable life with. Getting clear on the next best steps forward while finding ways to protect yourself and your DS from the mood swings is a full time job, I imagine. Finding places like Out of the FOG for support and insights can only be a help and I am sure glad you found us

I would suggest, alongside therapy and all you are already doing, to think about attending some kind of support group in person for people with partners who have alcohol and substance abuse issues as another space for help as you find the best way forward.

In the meantime, we welcome you and are here to encourage and support you!

[SonofThunder]

I'm realising now that we can't share with them how much they hurt us.

So what do we say? Do we just MC/GR? Is there any safe way to communicate our hurt or anger, or is that just too painful for them?

Generally I'm a strong person, although a people pleaser and I know I need to work on my boundaries. As I get closer to menopause, I do seem to be getting better at standing up for myself, which is something positive at least.

Hello Beachstone,

Another warm welcome to Out of the FOG!  Great advice already from Starboard Song and Bloomie.  As Starboard already mentioned, MC is a great tool to utilize when you are in a close-contact relationship. You are already diving into the Toolbox tab and I will second you continue doing. 

You wrote:

"I'm realising now that we can't share with them how much they hurt us."



You also wrote:

"Is there any safe way to communicate our hurt or anger, or is that just too painful for them?"

Imo (in my opinion), all PD persons are focused on 'self' in all they do.  I am a fan of remembering the phrase 'motive is everything' when analyzing PD drama.  Its true!  I personally do not believe that PD's experience our communicating "hurt or anger" as emotionally painful, but rather their self-motives, internally twist and/or flip our words to serve the self. Always. 

If you are not yet familiar, educate yourself with the Karpman Drama Triangle 🔺.  Imo, there are two cycles in which PD's continually rotate and use as predator-tools to (+)feed 'self' at  the (-)expense of the prey (us nons who are the chosen target-host of the PD's emotions).  The two cycles are the longer/larger IDD cycle (Idealize, Devalue and Discard) and the shorter/smaller Karpman Drama Triangle 🔺. 

Imo the 🔺 is a tool frequently used by the PD to position themselmes in one of the three 🔺 roles, but the 'Victim' role is always the desired home base for a PD. Therefore the other two 🔺roles (Persecutor and Rescuer), are temporary roles/ tools that the PD uses to bring them back to 'Victim'. Always. #motiveiseverything

Imo a PD is unable to host their own emotions so (like a parasite) they need an emotional host in order to permanently latch onto, and feed.  When we communicate our "hurt or anger", it triggers a deep seated fear (read up on FoA = 'Fear of Abandonment' in the top 100 traits at the Personality Disorders tab) and the PD uses the 🔺 to twist and/or flip our communication so that the PD can reside in their desired victim role.  Imo, in the predator-mindset of a PD, the prey-host cannot occupy the victim 🔺role, so when we express "hurt or anger" as the true victim, the PD must use our words against us (they temporarily persecute) to get us out of a proclaimed victim role so they can re-occupy. #motiveiseverything

You also wrote:

"Generally I'm a strong person, although a people pleaser and I know I need to work on my boundaries."

I want to recommend you asap privately read 'Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist' by Fjelstad.  That book detailed the well-orchestrated relationship between the PD's in my life and my roles, but also taught me a lot about myself, how I became a caretaker of a PD's emotions and that I alone have the power to stop hosting. When a host stops hosting the parasite, the drama 🔺 and IDD cycle behaviors go into overdrive as FoA rises quickly to the surface. 

Along with the boundaries you mention and the MC that Starboard discusses, I highly recommend you get a firm grip on the tool of 'no-JADE'.  MC + NoJADE are actually boundaries, as boundaries are actions and/or reactions we use to self-protect. Proper boundaries are never to attempt to control the actions/reactions of another adult and never used as punishment. 

Again, welcome here to Out of the FOG!  You are not alone!  See you around the boards.

SoT

[newlyawakened]

Grey Rock is -- at a minimum -- trying to be so bland as to be uninteresting. At a minimum, the goal is to be a non-interesting target for aggression. But generally the goal is described in a more robust way: to make yourself actually not at all interesting to the PD, so they move on not from aggression, but from you altogether. You can imagine this working well to resolve an office conflict, to evade a member of a friend group, or to deter an unwanted romantic interest. But if you share a household with someone and have no plans to change that, GR is easily interpreted as a hostile act of emotional estrangement.

Medium Chill is a better concept, I think, when you are forced to continue in close contact with someone and you seek to avoid hostility. You engage kindly, talk about life, spend time together. But you evade the deep closeness and emotional vulnerability of a normal relationship. Any topic that is hard you just drop. Any topic that can expose you to injury or insult, you just drop.

This is no way to live. I am so sorry for you finding yourself here. But step one is to take no drastic steps. Stabilize, protect, assess, and then carefully make the best choices you can make. Take your time, but don't fail to do the next good thing when you are ready.

SS, Thank you for enunciating this very clear distinction between GR and MC. I am in a similar predicament where I am trying to hold it together in a long term marriage.

Question: If practicing MC, what do we do when they split/rage? Ignore and stay away till they calm down? That seems to fuel the rage more. Nothing short of a grovellng apology seems to work with my uBPDw for something that I did not do and is not my fault (well sometimes it is my fault but a minor fault that IMO should not deserve such rage and soul numbing apologies after hearing a earful of very hurtful words) In some ways it was easier when I did not know about BPD because I truly believed it was my fault for the trigger and apologized sincerely and got hurt every time.

[Beachstone]

Thank you for your wise words and insight. I'm halfway through "Stop Caretaking..." and I feel so seen by this book. Lots of emotions coming up for me.

Question: If practicing MC, what do we do when they split/rage? Ignore and stay away till they calm down? That seems to fuel the rage more. Nothing short of a grovellng apology seems to work with my uBPDw for something that I did not do and is not my fault (well sometimes it is my fault but a minor fault that IMO should not deserve such rage and soul numbing apologies after hearing a earful of very hurtful words) In some ways it was easier when I did not know about BPD because I truly believed it was my fault for the trigger and apologized sincerely and got hurt every time.

Oh my, yes, I could have written this question as well. I feel the same way, and curious to see the answers. I agree that it initially feels easier when you think it is your own fault, you feel like you can control the situation to avoid it next time. But yes, I'm learning, thanks to the 3 C's that you can't control it, and didn't cause it.

[Starboard Song]

Question: If practicing MC, what do we do when they split/rage? Ignore and stay away till they calm down? That seems to fuel the rage more. Nothing short of a grovellng apology seems to work with my uBPDw.

When you are stuck in the household, I can only imagine how hard it must be. But I think this is the time for a masters-level Boundaries effort. Boundaries are not fences we put up around others, like we would cattle. Boundaries never control others. Boundaries are an expression of what we will or will not do, or engage with.

If you decide that an angry person raging at you is something you'll no longer engage with, I think role playing it would go something like this.

He: ** rages in some manner **

You: (very kindly and sweetly, like a mom consoling a child) Oh no. You are really upset. I understand. But right now, you are raising your voice, and yelling at me. Let's calm down and discuss what we can do to fix this for you.

He: ** rages **

You: (sweet but resolved) I am not going to talk with anyone -- ever -- who yells at me and acts this way. I'm going to go upstairs and read for a while. We can talk about this tomorrow.

He: ** rages, and demands you talk now **

You: (like a mom) Honey, no. As I explained, I will not discuss these sorts of things with someone who yells and me and acts this away. I'm stepping away now, but let's do resolve this for you, maybe tomorrow.


You see a few things there:

• Keep the problem simple: he is raising his voice and acting this way.
• Don't accuse him of details: you aren't here to argue.
• Repeated phrasing: it is tedious, but keeps you from slipping into an argument.
• Relentless kindness: we will take care of this, and soon, but I will not (engage in this)

Here's a problem I have no experience with. I've never had the person in my household. I could always just say, "well, as I say, I really will not discuss this any further, and I can see you want to, so I am going to head out now." You have two problems: you cannot easily leave, and -- we cannot tell -- you may fear for your safety, trying to implement this sort of resolve. Generally, not engaging in a heated argument ought be safer than engaging in one, but I want to express that whatever any of us say, please remember that none of us understand the details of your situation, so please run all our thoughts through your own good sense.

Good luck.

[newlyawakened]

Beachstone,

A warm welcome to you to this site! I am a newbie here too and to learning about BPD. I can relate to your post as I am facing a quite similar situation.

My apologies it was not my intent to hijack your thread, I was going through a situation yesterday and did not think much when posing my question here. However I am glad that you were interested in the same question.

SS, Thank you for the detailed response and examples of communicating. This is very very helpful. For my own situation, I would need to tweak the communication with my uBPDw a little bit differently because if I confidently or very calmly draw the boundary of not engaging when they are in rage, they would rage more as they see it as a challenge to them on my choosing the time to respond as well as a loss of control. However with some change in tone and words I think I can set this boundary for myself.

I am so grateful I found this site and for thoughtful posters like you and others who are helping so many folks here.