When They Are Dying

[GettingOOTF]

The thought of my father getting sick and dying was one of the biggest reasons I felt I couldn't go NC. I guess I worried not so much about his dying but the guilt I would feel.

This morning it occurred to me that I've already experienced this scenario with him.

A couple of years ago he was very sick and in a specialist hospital for months. He had to have a major operation. He, and everyone else, thought he would die.

He was awful to me. He said the most horrible things to me when I called before his surgery. He even said that he didn't think he'd make it through the surgery. I remember thinking "wow he thinks this is the last thing he will say to me and this is what he picks".

The surgery was a success and he has a quality of life people half he age don't have. He spent months in a hospital and is lucky to be alive. I see now that a large part of me thought this would cause him to change and live his life in a more loving and grateful way. You read all these stories about people who went through these events and it changed them in some deep way for the better. They realize what is important. My father just carried on as normal. If anything I'd say he's worse. Like it got a second chance to get in all the digs he thought he wouldn't be able to get in when he thought he was dying.

If that experience didn't change him then nothing will.

I know I'm still quite deep in FOG when it comes to my FOO. I still feel that the way they treat me is a reflection in me, even though intellectually I know it's not. It's weird how I didn't connect that experience with my "what if" thoughts.

The truth is I have experienced the "death bed" situation and it didn't change anything.  I need to remind myself of this when I let the guilt start to overwhelm me.

[Fiasco]

Yes! I went through this with BPDm several years ago. She was in an accident and for a while was partially paralyzed, had a pacemaker, breathing tube, feeding tube, the whole deal. The hospital had me dealing with palliative care because she was dying. And of course, who gets the medical miracle? Not some deserving child, my own BPDm.

She's pretty much fine now. And her behavior when she got home from the hospital? Off the charts awful. Beyond the pale of ugliness. She used up 100 percent of my sympathy during that period. I have literally none left for her. They really show you who they are don't they?

[Starboard Song]

My current fantasy is my FIL calling to say either that (1) we're coming to town and want to have dinner with you all, or (2) MIL is dying and you need to come to visit / we need your help.

My wife has a more nuanced view. But for my part, I figure it this way:

There are easily a hundred billion old people dying around the world right now, and needing help. Most of them would be kinder to me than i can plausibly expect from my in-laws, and not one of them has ever declared that their only goal was to put me permanently out of their life. So, if I'm going to sign up to help someone over the rainbow I'm going to pick someone more deserving and closer to home.

This is so hard, though. I can see in my wife that there is still a strong feeling of family bond, despite our recent four years of NC. Good luck to you: it is great that you are processing all this before the next crisis.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Well it is certainly just one more eye-opener when our NPD or enabling parent comes close to death, and nothing changes. 
My parents are not dead, but are ill and elderly and could just be one fall on some stairs or one bout with pneumonia away from the end. However, they both keep trucking on and nothing gets better in their attitude toward me.  Actually, my enabling dad has gotten worse making demands that I resume all relationships as they used to be so so that my NPD mother's final days can be happy. I did not comply to his orders, and he withdrew from me. I am VLC, and when I see him the only emotion he shows to me is disdain.       
It is not your responsibility to make your parent happy. You likely tried most of your life already and if it were possible, you would have done it by now. There is no awakening. There is no resolution. I know there will be no death-bed confession or reconciliation. Maybe these close calls can serve to prepare us for that. I believe part of this dysfunction is their inability to actually see it.   

[Fuzzydog]

My NM is almost 96 and after almost five years NC, I have worked out how I plan (haha) to deal with whatever end-of-life scenario happens. Basically, I have no reason to believe she will be any different than the mother who made me realize that NC was my best option. What I do realize, however, is that when I refuse to play the expected game, I will lose a few more people. Oh well.

GettingOOTF, it is good that are thinking and planning around this. However it might play out, being braced and prepared can help.

[Starboard Song]

I've been thinking more about this one.

In my first response, I wanted to strongly express that there is nothing cruel or irrational about declaring some people outside of your care, even at end of life. If you'd never been born, or died young in an accident, there'd be some other path they'd be on for elder or end-of-life care. That path is still available to them. Deciding to not care for people who have reliably rejected or abused you is honorable.

But I thought I should come back to observe it is equally honorable, and not weak, to choose to provide elder or end-of-life care to such folks. We see stories here of people laying down the law to their own parents or in-laws, and then tolerating no nonsense. A single sideways word and they are out the door. This, too, is an honorable course. It is not weak, or giving in.

These are close matters of the heart, and I want you to know that what is required is only that you care for yourself, applying your own oxygen mask first. Good luck.

[GettingOOTF]

I think that for me personally I don't have any fantasies about things changing. I don't have any happy times I can look back on and wish things were like that again. Almost all of my memories growing up are unhappy ones and now I'm starting to see how abusive and deprivational my childhood was.  I posted about this in another thread as most people here have something positive they can look back on. I don't recall a time when it wasn't bad for me. I also feel that I have no true connection to them. I don't wish them ill, but I wouldn't say there was any affection there, nor that I relate to them in any familiar way.  If I didn't look exactly like both my parents I'd swear I was adopted. I don't feel that deep, primal family connection so many speak of.  Even adopted people talk about having it with their birth parents, whether they've met them or not.

I am hoping they don't ever reach out again. That's my ultimate goal.

I can't say what I would do for sure obviously, but my father lives somewhere where there is social support. He will have medical care, money for food etc. I have no interest or desire to help in any way. There is no sense of obligation towards him from me.

I read somewhere that parents set the relationship they will have with their adult children when they are still young children. This has proven the case for me.     

[FogDawg]

I read somewhere that parents set the relationship they will have with their adult children when they are still young children. This has proven the case for me.

Exactly. Sadly, I can understand precisely where you are coming from, having no relationship with my remaining (n)parent. People often talk about their childhoods and fond memories, not considering that others never experienced the same. If parents do not make effort with their children, there is almost certainly not going to be a connection, through no fault of the child's - it is entirely up to the parent to engage and be supportive. No one asks to be here and the world is a harsh place even with encouragement. Those fortunate enough to have been brought up within a healthy environment many times take it for granted, unable to accept that not everyone lived the same way. I am sorry for your situation. Take care of yourself the best that you are able.

[Free Rebel]

I have already grieved my parents although both of them are alive and kicking.  My only sibling died in 2018 and I broke no contact with my parents just to go to her funeral.  I refused to sit with them or go to their house afterwards as I knew that my mother's intention was not to reconcile or FINALLY love her only remaining child.  It was to make HER and my father look good and for the world to believe that we were all super close and loving.  Nope, not going to pretend for them anymore. 

I'm only in contact with two cousins.  Both live in another state than I do so I don't see the female one at all and the male one maybe two to three times a year.  I assume that I will hear from one of my cousins if anything happens to my parents but I do not plan to be there for their funeral.  At this point, I don't care what any one thinks of my decision and I "think" that both cousins would not be shocked that I didn't show up.    Just because my parents die doesn't change anything.  They are still narcissists/sociopaths and I've already grieved not having parents.

[Sweetbriar]

Hi GettingOOTF,
I have had such a similar experience to yours. A few years ago my mother got sepsis and was on life support twice, ended up months in hospital. I was certain she was going to die and it was agony, but I felt the extreme grief, said I love you, which is something not said in our family, and was certain we'd get the call that night, that she had passed. She didn't. Every day she got slowly better and as she got better, her personality disorder got more intense. She was in a rage all the time and visiting her was excruciating. I didn't wish her dead, but I was terribly stressed out and couldn't believe she got this second chance only to come back worse. As was said, why not her and save a young child? It may sound callous, but really... why?

Everything I had was used up during that time. I did my best to be a good daughter. It wasn't good enough by my sister and father's standards. So there was terrible stress there as well. I honestly think I have Cushing's now, from that time period.

Since then, my mother has been home and my father's sinister rage toward me for not doing what he wanted has clued me in to how cruel both my parents can be.

I feel like I said my good byes now. I don't want to go thru what I went thru with my mother (and sister and father) ever again. I am still miserably in the FOG and I live with this lingering anxiety that I will be thrown back into that stress again at any time. Whenever the phone rings I have a near anxiety attack.

I think I watched far too much television as a child that has led me to believe families resolve things at end of life. But what I am beginning to understand is, if you add stress to a toxic family, it really only gets worse. I want to love my family, but lately I feel absolutely nothing but anxiety when I think of them. It's so sad.

I really relate to what you've written and I am grateful to see that, perhaps I am not abnormal? All of this is so confusing and draining and horrible. I keep thinking should haves... like I should have stayed on the west coast and never come back to my family home town. It seems to have dragged me down in the hell of, what I believed I had actually escaped. And the only way out for me is NC and the judgement from others  feels pretty bad. I try really hard to stand by myself and not let it get to me, but I am not always successful at that.

This time of life is very very hard. It brings up all the grief and all the losses. I'm so sorry you are feeling this as well.

[FogDawg]

I have already grieved my parents although both of them are alive and kicking.  My only sibling died in 2018 and I broke no contact with my parents just to go to her funeral.  I refused to sit with them or go to their house afterwards as I knew that my mother's intention was not to reconcile or FINALLY love her only remaining child.  It was to make HER and my father look good and for the world to believe that we were all super close and loving.  Nope, not going to pretend for them anymore. 

I'm sorry, Free Rebel. I did the same when my mother passed away, plunking down in the very back and refusing to budge no matter what. After the funeral, a former neighbor, who had been close to the front, told me about the shitstorm that had ensued after some in attendance had begun wondering aloud why I was not sitting with family, seemingly provoking a bit of my dismayed father's wrath. I would not doubt that it was probably about the same environment where you were. Kudos for standing strong. There will, of course, be some who consider us petulant brats, though not everyone is dumb enough to unquestioningly believe the narrative.

I didn't wish her dead, but I was terribly stressed out and couldn't believe she got this second chance only to come back worse. As was said, why not her and save a young child? It may sound callous, but really... why?

I am completely with you, Sweetbriar. So much in this world does not make a lick of sense. My father had a heart attack when I was in high school and has survived long past what his doctor predicted. My mother and a former friend of mine said that he was different for about a year, although I do not recall any positive change in his behavior during that time, not that maintaining an altered course for one complete rotation of Earth is anything to write home about even if true. Heartless as it may sound, I honestly spent a long time wishing that he would not have made it off the operating table. There are so many deserving people who want to live and are not allowed the chance. I think that it is pure hatred that allows some to pull through and is what keeps them alive, just like with Hank Hill's father in King of the Hill, who kicked out of death's clutches over and over again. For those with a warped sense of humor like myself, this episode should definitely give you a chuckle: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x70cpy5

[Adria]

I know where you are coming from. My Npd dad was in a horrible motorcycle accident. Died 2 times on the way to the hospital. Busted up every which way imaginable.  After being NC for a year, I went up to see him, (for many reasons).  I thought since he had been a broken man from this accident, he may have come to some realization of his horrible behavior.  We talked a little, I fed him lunch.  I then said, "Dad, I just want you to know, I forgive you for the past." (Hopefully to start a conversation and get some closure.)  He said, "I did the best I could."  Just like nothing ever happened.

However, when he finally got home from the hospital and healed pretty much miraculously, he became even worse than before.  My enabling mother made all kinds of excuses  for him, saying it was because he had a concussion and his brain wasn't right anymore, etc., etc.,   Knowing full well the brain scan showed perfect healing.  It's been about twenty years since that accident, and he has never tried to make amends with me, and now seems to be playing last will tricks between me and GC sister. My family's motto is "I'll take it to the grave."  And, so far the ones that have passed stood by that.

I'm sorry, you are feeling these difficult feelings. It is very hard.  Do what ever you need to do for you. Whatever will make you feel best in the end.  Probably just don't expect anything in return.  Wish you all the best.

[_apparentlywicked]

What is it with these PD's getting all the luck. Ndnpddad had a massive heart attack. They took him off life support and we said goodbye. This was 5 years ago and although he's bedbound the last year.

I know what you mean about worrying how you will look or what you'll say about NC And chances are this fear is so strong in you because your parents put this program in you to the max. And why would they need to do that? 🤔

[FogDawg]

We talked a little, I fed him lunch.  I then said, "Dad, I just want you to know, I forgive you for the past." (Hopefully to start a conversation and get some closure.)  He said, "I did the best I could."  Just like nothing ever happened.

The first round of no contact, I received a note that claimed the same as your father spoke. Just as it is pretty much impossible for a parent to do their worst 100% of the time, why should it be believed that they always did their very best? People cause harm, whether intentional or not, a fact that must be acknowledged. If someone truly cares, they will find a way, no matter how difficult, to admit that they dropped the ball at points and offer a genuine apology, plus they will make effort to change what has not worked in the past instead of continuing to do what basically amounts to jabbing a balloon with a nail and thinking that they just have not found the right one yet when every single balloon winds up decimated from the action.

[_apparentlywicked]

Urgh. I did my best. Farking hell,  if he did his best I'm glad he didn't decide to do his worst.

People who are careful to do their best say sorry at the time they haven't done their best. I haven't always done my best. No one has. No one can. We're human.

I often turn things around in my head and imagine saying what my dad has said to me, to my kids. And imagining what they/I would say. It helps you to see the difference in what you're fundamentally dealing with in terms of an their inner desire for authentic connection.

If one of my kids said 'mum, I want you to know I forgive you' I wouldn't bat it away with 'i did my best'. I'd be like 'omg honey what is it? I'm so sorry. Please explain. I love you so much and need you to know that and that I want to talk about any way I've left you wounded'.

'I did my best' is more gaslighting.

[FogDawg]

People who are careful to do their best say sorry at the time they haven't done their best. I haven't always done my best. No one has. No one can. We're human.

'I did my best' is more gaslighting.

There you go, more clarity on your part, which will only grow stronger the longer that you keep your distance. Your approach of reframing it against how you treat your own family is fantastic and I give you props for that. I once wrote to my father that, sadly, the only thing that I ever learned from him is how not to be; I am sure that it hurt, but the statement was, and is, complete fact. If they can actually somehow convince themselves that they did their best, their concept of the worst would surely have to line up with the actions of the most vile monsters in human history in order to count, which is a terrifying thought.

[Adria]

Wow, FogDawg and ApparentlyWicked,

You summed it up perfectly!

Just as it is pretty much impossible for a parent to do their worst 100% of the time, why should it be believed that they always did their very best?

That's it right there! It's a smooth way of saying, "What's YOUR problem? . . . I did my best."

If one of my kids said 'mum, I want you to know I forgive you' I wouldn't bat it away with 'i did my best'. I'd be like 'omg honey what is it? I'm so sorry. Please explain. I love you so much and need you to know that and that I want to talk about any way I've left you wounded'.

For sure.  I would be so sad that I hurt my child that way. I would bend over backwards to try and make it right, at any cost. I mean, seriously, how hard is to say, "I'm sorry?" Two little words that can change the world.

[_apparentlywicked]

To say they're sorry would be admitting to themselves that the false image they nurture is a steaming mountain of horsec##p.

You deserve so much more my lovely. So much more. 🦋