Radical acceptance

[Penny Lane]

Now that DH has settled his yearslong court case with his uPDxw, we're trying to figure out how to move forward. Both of us were expending incredible amounts of energy both on the court stuff but also on figuring out how he should respond to her shenanigans in the way that would lead her to cause the least problems.

So now we have some extra energy that's brought us clarity (a lot of it sprang from some frank comments from people on this board, thank you all!). We've decided we can't live like that. We figured out the most productive way for DH to respond to the kids' BM but that often takes a lot of energy and planning, and neither of us wants to do it anymore. We just got married and we want to focus on our own family not her shenanigans.

Court was so terrible that we decided there's basically no way DH is taking her back to court unless there's an immediate emergency - she's in jail and he doesn't know where the kids are, or the kids are in serious immediate danger at her house. So there's not much point in documenting all the little stuff she does wrong or all the little ways she refuses to follow the parenting plan.

Instead we're trying to practice radical acceptance (another concept I learned about here!) Meanwhile, apparently the specter of court was keeping BM in check because she's been behaving especially badly and giving us lots of opportunities to put this new practice into effect.

BM won't agree to sign the kids up for any sports? DH doesn't spend 50 emails back and forth trying to convince her, we just find sports on our time.

She repeatedly drops the kids off late at school? No emails, he's never been able to persuaded her that school is important anyway.

BM is trying to take DH's parenting time and threatening to cause a scene if he comes to pick up the kids? Yikes, but maybe we just let this one go and be prepared to act if it becomes a more regular occurrence ( )

No more parenting time trades. No more offering to drop the kids off when she should be the one to pick them up. No more emails asking to discuss parent teacher conferences or doctors' visits. Basically no more interaction unless it's absolutely necessary, and it's the strictest BIFF possible. Basic information that DH needs to share with her and NO requests that she do anything, if at all possible. Instead of spending our energy on the best way to respond, we're spending our energy deciding whether or not he even needs to respond. Turns out the answer is often no! Obviously this isn't the coparenting relationship anyone hopes for, and that's where radical acceptance comes in. So far I don't think this is leading to worse outcomes for the kids. She basically acting exactly as badly as she would even if he was engaging, and we have more energy to spend on the kids.

On one hand it is freeing. Just deciding to spend less energy on being frustrated has led me to be less frustrated. DH and I are spending so much more time talking about more fun stuff - our house, vacations, parenting stuff that comes up. Focusing on our own health, physical and mental, and the kids' as well.

But guys, I gotta tell you all, this is HARD. I think her threatening to take parenting time happened because she realized she wasn't getting the fight (attention) she was looking for, so she's escalating her bad behavior in the hopes that he'll have to respond. I'm still stressed about what she'll try to pull next. I'm worried if DH takes all of his attention away from her she'll focus on trying to turn the kids against him.

We'll see how this goes. I'm hoping this is a strategy we can take with us for the rest of the kids' childhoods. But even a several month to a year break from the relentless emotional terrorism (even though it's secondhand for me) would put us both in a much better place if we need to start getting more invested again down the road.

I guess what I'm looking for is, can anyone relate? Has anyone successfully done this? Are there pitfalls we're not seeing? Any ways to help me get out the frustrated anxious headspace I sometimes still find myself in? Good ideas about how to spend our newfound energy?

Thanks again to you all, this board was INVALUABLE in helping me get to this place, and I feel better about the BM situation than I have since I met DH.

[Stepping lightly]

Hi PL,

Congrats- it looks like you guys are moving toward sanity!!  We did the same thing after a massive court experience, different outcome for us, but still the same mentality.  We just aren't going to do it anymore.  Once we have a second to step back and look at things rationally without a court date pressing down on our emotions, we see how reactive we were, just trying to keep things stable and protect us/the kids/our jobs etc.

I don't think you are missing any potential pitfalls.  You probably have mountains of documentation to show why you are/are not responding the way you have chosen, no need to continue to add to them.  I think we all feel the fear of "what are they planning?", "what are they documenting?".  The truth is, they could be documenting anything, true or not, and that personally is what I have to radically accept.    BM could document that we screamed at her, and a year from now...it would be impossible to prove we didn't (somehow DH always gets stuck proving something didn't happen, which is impossible).   

To add to it, we don't change parenting time, ever.  All it does is introduce opportunities for chaos making and hurt the kids worse (immediate family funerals would likely be an exception, but that's it). 

I'm so glad you guys have some peace now, and THAT alone will have the biggest impact on the kids.  The more stable our home can be, the more relaxed, the better chance the kids have making it through in one piece!

[Penny Lane]

I'm glad you responded, SL, because you are definitely one of my inspirations for this! Thank you for sharing your wisdom here!

For all my big talk about not being stressed of course it's easier said than done - BM has been especially nasty lately. She definitely does not like the new "no changing parenting time" rule. But there's always tension over a new boundary and then it eventually calms down. I'm just trying to just remember that a year from now none of her drama of the week will matter. All that matters is whether the kids are happy and healthy and stable, or at least we're trying our best.

[Stepping lightly]

I'm so glad!  Haha...as you can see sometimes living in denial does come back to bite you in the butt after ignoring things for awhile (based on my other string), but you have to find a way to introduce some level of sanity in your life and ya know...do what makes the PD hates you to do the most....ENJOY LIFE and be HAPPY!  We have to figure out how we can take back the power of our happiness and not allow the PD the control of our lives. 

Not trading parenting time is really a big blessing once everyone accepts it.  A first it is really disappointing when important things fall on the other parents time  You do get used to it, you still are disappointed, but the haggling for days is likely not something you will miss.  For us, it was really a matter of BM never agreeing to swap days with us, she only swapped days if it benefited her.  Because we knew there was no alternative, we would try to negotiate days we would have asked to swap in exchange for her swap....she would lose her mind and make all kinds of rules about the days we were allowed to have in exchange.  When the PC was involved and DH was forced to give BM some of his time, BM would reward him with sending back kids that were angry at us for whatever convenient reason.  Oh, man I don't miss this process at all!

[Magnolia34]

This is all such good information. DH and I have definitely been working on this but it can be SO hard. There was a little dust up today over BM's request for a "mid-week visit" she gave DH 48 hours notice that she wanted to change the day. He responded and let her know that didn't work for us but offered her another day. She responded that she wasn't available that day. No questions, no requests so DH went about last night and today, busy with work. He opened his computer to several emails from her then an email she sent to the Parent Coordinator essentially tattling that he was taking too long to respond (he responded on time and according to their parenting agreement guidelines but you all know those change depending on how PD's need them to). 

This is frustrating but definitely doesn't rise to the level of some of the other things she's pulled. My first reaction (which are almost always wrong) is for DH to schedule a meeting with BM and the PC to further define the communication guidelines of the parenting agreement. But then reality kicks in and I know that's useless. DH offered her Friday, a day NOT in the parenting agreement (her party day so I'm sure she'll decline) and we're going to leave it at that.

That's pretty much how we've started handling expenses. DH pays what she sends him (as long as she includes the proper receipts) on time. She argues and refuses (which we know she will) but we keep track of it and will deal with it when it's time.  I'm just so tired and trying to do the right thing (or get her to do what we feel is the right thing) will never work.

I would love to hear more on this thread about tactics and strategies to implementing Radical Acceptance.

[Penny Lane]

Trading days is such a headache.  I won't be sorry to see the end of that. Somehow all the trades end up being in BM's favor, like you said.

We're trying to see how far we can take this disengaging stuff. I think where we draw the line is at DSD's daily medication - it seems she's not getting that at BM's and she really needs it, so I guess DH is going to have to address that at some point.

you have to find a way to introduce some level of sanity in your life and ya know...do what makes the PD hates you to do the most....ENJOY LIFE and be HAPPY!  We have to figure out how we can take back the power of our happiness and not allow the PD the control of our lives. 

I'm going to try to remember all of this, it's all so true!

[athene1399]

Every time we started trading days it was disastrous. Every time it ended in SD always staying at BM's and us having to put so much energy into getting her back. The last time this happened (end of Oct '18), SO decided to just let it go. My advice is do not switch days. Keep to the schedule no matter what.

My issue is what's the difference between radial acceptance and not giving a $#@k? But SO does ignore almost all of BM's messages because they aren't important. They work out who's getting SD from school or driving her in. BM always responds with more info than needed (usually about her problems). So if it doesn't pertain to the question, SO ignores it. BM's not been mad at us lately, so I think that makes it easier. Part of it is because she has what she wants (SD all the time) and SO drops off groceries on top of getting SD food after school almost every day, we pay for anything that comes up with school and other fun stuff. Basically SD lives with BM, yet we pay for everything. I try really hard to accept that, but feel I am being used all the time. Some of that is my own baggage (I let so many others use me) and I don't want SD turning out like BM- only using others for what she wants. Maybe my paranoia blocks the acceptance? It is hard though! I agree with everyone on that.

I'm chipper around SD (the twice a month I see her), but it is eating me inside. I'm trying to accept that how it is now is not how it will always be. She's 18 and thinking of dorming next year. I really hope her getting away will help her realize who she is away from BM and even us. That's really what's driving me. Maybe radical acceptance isn't just about accepting what reality is now, it's about accepting what may happen as well. We want to be the "Fixers', yet there's no way to fix this. We just have to accept how things are and take what we can get and enjoy those little moments. Like helping SD with her financial aid in the middle of a restaurant because she won't come over.  She's not usually mean when she sees us. It seems she misses us and enjoys our company. Usually if she's in a mood when we pick her up it lightens up after a bit. SD's really stressed about her mom and I get that. I just wished it didn't cut into our time. Or make me feel we're being use.

[Penny Lane]

I actually used to encourage DH to be flexible and do trades (how naive I was!) The final tipping point, for me, was he recently offered her a trade that was 100% for her benefit - the way the schedule worked out he had a longer than usual stretch with the kids so he offered her a trade as a favor. She agreed and then came back with a really aggressive angry message about how she thinks the trade was because he couldn't be with the kids on his days and what a negligent parent he is. Again, this trade was a favor to her, if anything it made things more inconvenient on our end. And meanwhile there was the whole issue of her stealing his parenting time and she won't be flexible at all, not even a little. Like you said Stepping Lightly, after that I was just done. DH was just done. There's no reason to offer any trade - it doesn't benefit the kids and it makes DH's life a million times harder.

I actually think "not giving a shit" is not all that dissimilar from the attitude I'm trying to adopt. But not exactly. What I'm trying to internalize is that this is the way things are. BM is not going to change and there's no use wishing for things to be different. I stopped wishing that she wouldn't be so terrible a long time ago - it seems pretty clear that she herself is never going to change. But lately I've been catching myself thinking "maybe she'll up and move away" "maybe she'll have a real meltdown and lose custody" "maybe she'll have a baby with her latest boyfriend and focus her energy on them not us." Anything to hope that the situation will change. None of that is helpful (or reasonable, really! I don't actually want her to have a real meltdown and I don't think adding a baby to her house would really cut down on stress for anyone, for example). It's not that I don't care that she is like this. I'm just trying to accept and believe that she's always like this and that we are just going to have to work around her to do stuff for the kids. We can change things on our end, but that's all we can do.

Here's an example: DH gets really frustrated that BM won't pay her half of stuff. He has spent incredible amounts of energy on trying to get her to reimburse him like she's supposed to, trying to get her to agree to sign the kids up for stuff, explaining doctors bills to her so she'll actually pay it. Now, our goal is that he just ... doesn't spend the energy. He sends her one email about any given item. That's it. She'll pay or she won't. He just doesn't pay for discretionary expenses that he wouldn't be OK with her never reimbursing him for. He'll pay his half of doctors bills but he won't chase her down to pay her half. She can get sent to collections again if she wants. Basically rather than killing himself trying to get her to work with him (which is futile) he'll just work around her, do his half and let her drop the ball on hers if she chooses to. If her debt to him gets high enough maybe he will go to court, or maybe we'll just suck it up. But either way we won't be spinning our wheels trying to get her to change on her own, because that's never going to happen. Many of you have already done this and maybe it was easier for you to come to this place! But money stuff has been an especially tough sticking point because she has stolen so much money from him over the years and on top of that she makes so much more than he does (she actually makes almost as much as DH and I combined.) So this is one of the hardest areas for DH to let go, I think.

Like I said this is a VERY DIFFICULT paradigm shift. I definitely have fixer tendencies like you say and it kills me to see a system that's so badly broken and not be able to DO anything about it. But when I can get in the radical acceptance mindset (I have been having brief flashes of zen) it really is a game-changer, at the very least for my stress level.

Athene, on your situation: I think dropping off groceries is really beyond the pale. Especially if you're eating tater tots for dinner. To me it seems like that's the point where you're enabling BM's bad behavior rather than helping DSD. She wants SD there, she needs to provide FOOD. If she can't find a way to feed her daughter, then it's not a safe place for her daughter to be. I think "SD is welcome for dinner every time but BM needs to provide the food for her house" is definitely a boundary I would set. And if not immediately, definitely after SD graduates. Whether or not she stays at her mom's house, you shouldn't be feeding BM. I guess a lot of this is because I don't really believe she can't afford it, she just knows your SO will pick up the cost if she threatens not to. Obviously what works for you might not work for me and vice versa, but it's something to consider.

[athene1399]

I don't really believe she can't afford it, she just knows your SO will pick up the cost if she threatens not to.

I agree with you, Penny. And I like your idea of cutting it off after graduation. I said something the other day to SO about "That's SD's choice to live there so we shouldn't pay for x" and he didn't like me saying that. But I was like, it's true. SD shouldn't get us to buy her everything she needs if she won't spend time with us. Not that I'm throwing away her college fund or anything, but I want SO to set more limits. I think dropping off the food is a hard limit for SO. I think he'll continue doing so to help SD and so BM won't threaten him with court. But we should have a conversation on "when is it enough?". Like what age/time. I think graduation is a good time and just say, if you need food then come to our house. see what happens.

And thank you for clarifying between radical acceptance and "not giving a shit." Some days I oscillate between both (think I have some unprocessed anger about stuff) and wonder what the difference really is. "Not giving a shit" is more like giving up where radical acceptance is a choice. I try to remind myself, too, that BM can't have power over me if I don't let her. Like I let myself get upset over stuff when I should accept that's how it is and not waste my energy. And I totally get the money thing. That is a thorn in our side and I have been trying to work with SO on setting limits on the "extras" because BM will never help out or pay for her half. She always has an argument when we try to get her to pay. It never ends and it's really not worth it.