Holidays and seeing uPDMom and her minions

[Rose1]

I think forgiveness is often misunderstood as condoning the behaviour.  I have seen pds harp on about forgiveness but see it as justification of bad behaviour and "you've forgiven me so I was actually right or justified in my behaviour".

Forgiveness is a letting go, not holding onto it within ourselves. It's also forgiving and not holding grudges for 20 years when someone has apologised or perhaps is unaware of some minor or even major infraction,  ie can you let go of someone else's or our own imperfect mistakes (yes we need to forgive ourselves too).

When you are taught that forgiveness is about a bad attitude to abuse then the real power of forgiveness is lost.

The difference is ongoing bad behaviour, ongoing abuse, no sign of change, just an attitude of "I am what I am, I like to be outspoken, I say it like it is". All of which I've heard as excuses from various pds in my life.

Forgiveness in these situations may well be forgiving the past by letting go for our own mental well being but learning from it and minimising our exposure to bad behaviour and abuse. This can take time and is a process to work through sometimes.

Just because we no longer allow someone to abuse us and they cry forgive does not mean we haven't. It just means they want validation. The principle of reap what you sow applies too. If someone continues to abuse they reap distance and no real relationship.

The scriptures tell us to forgive but they also tell us  to be careful of our associations because they rub off on us (fleas??). It's a balance.

And it's not always possible to physically distance so emotional and mental distancing happens (I guess what is meant by bad attitude). In actual fact the abuser should be held accountable as they are also obliged to change their ways and lose their bad attitude but this seems to be almost universally shied away from.

I believe the threat of bad behaviour by the pd is what keeps people from calling them out. It certainly does with me. I'd prefer to remove myself but avoidance isn't always best.  the few times I was brave enough to call out the behaviour I was left alone. This doesn't work so well in close relationships, but pds often like to find another victim that hasn't seen through them, muttering about holding grudges, unkind, doesn't understand me.

The demand to condone does not gain forgiveness. The apology and genuine attempt to change does.
Aside from that letting go within ourselves has great mental health benefits for us.

[Boat Babe]

I think forgiveness is often misunderstood as condoning the behaviour.  I have seen pds harp on about forgiveness but see it as justification of bad behaviour and "you've forgiven me so I was actually right or justified in my behaviour".

Forgiveness is a letting go, not holding onto it within ourselves. It's also forgiving and not holding grudges for 20 years when someone has apologised or perhaps is unaware of some minor or even major infraction,  ie can you let go of someone else's or our own imperfect mistakes (yes we need to forgive ourselves too).

When you are taught that forgiveness is about a bad attitude to abuse then the real power of forgiveness is lost.

The difference is ongoing bad behaviour, ongoing abuse, no sign of change, just an attitude of "I am what I am, I like to be outspoken, I say it like it is". All of which I've heard as excuses from various pds in my life.

Forgiveness in these situations may well be forgiving the past by letting go for our own mental well being but learning from it and minimising our exposure to bad behaviour and abuse. This can take time and is a process to work through sometimes.

Just because we no longer allow someone to abuse us and they cry forgive does not mean we haven't. It just means they want validation. The principle of reap what you sow applies too. If someone continues to abuse they reap distance and no real relationship.

The scriptures tell us to forgive but they also tell us  to be careful of our associations because they rub off on us (fleas??). It's a balance.

And it's not always possible to physically distance so emotional and mental distancing happens (I guess what is meant by bad attitude). In actual fact the abuser should be held accountable as they are also obliged to change their ways and lose their bad attitude but this seems to be almost universally shied away from.

I believe the threat of bad behaviour by the pd is what keeps people from calling them out. It certainly does with me. I'd prefer to remove myself but avoidance isn't always best.  the few times I was brave enough to call out the behaviour I was left alone. This doesn't work so well in close relationships, but pds often like to find another victim that hasn't seen through them, muttering about holding grudges, unkind, doesn't understand me.

The demand to condone does not gain forgiveness. The apology and genuine attempt to change does.
Aside from that letting go within ourselves has great mental health benefits for us.

That's a wonderful take on forgiveness. It's something I can work with.

[bee well]

Rose1, I agree with Boatbabe....I like that your definition of forgiveness is about letting go, moving on, and learning from the experience. Thank you!

The problem that I have with the way forgiveness often gets interpreted is that it is then used to gaslight and that something is wrong with us if we don't arrive at that point when others think we should.

[Rose1]

That's it isn't it? Forgiveness is between you the the offender, or between you and God. It's not about other people's idea of what you should do or when you should do it.

If someone isn't changing,  hasn't attempted to apologise in a meaningful way, (not fauxpology), keeps repeating the same behaviour but demanding you forgive (ie go back to status quo) or send flying monkeys to do it for them then there is no basis for the relationship.

In those cases to let it go and move on is all you can do. This can actually take quite a long time but well worth it for making us more healthy mentally and emotionally.

And if someone does apologise, and appears genuine there is a great deal of wisdom in giving it time to see just how much they really mean it, because sustaining better behaviour for a short time to get something, is also not worthy of a relationship  imo. So again instead of falling back into abuse, letting go of all the anger and hurt over time is the only way forward.