Jealousy and PDs

[countrygirl]

Hi,

I'm wondering how many people have encountered jealousy in their PDs?  It's not as if I do that much, but it seems that whenever I stick a toe in the water and accomplish something, the PDs in my life can't wait to tear me down.  I am supportive and encouraging with my friends, but I find that the PD ones don't repay the favor.  This is particularly true of the NPDs, who of course want all attention to be on them.

Once an NPD friend went with us  to visit some friends of my husband's.  She told them that she was a screenwriter!  With us standing there, knowing she'd never written a line!  Later in the day, one of these people complimented me on something, and the NPD friend immediately tore it down.  Then another person asked HER what scripts she had written for which films, and she blandly said that she'd never written a script!   I mean, that is an extreme example of her behavior...  She was in maximum overdrive that day because I'd just managed to achieve a little something, after much effort.

Sometimes when I'm around some of these friends (and she was chief among them), I almost feel as if they are trying to put the evil eye on me!  They really do not want me to succeed.  It doesn't matter how well I treat them, nor how much I praise them, they simply do not want things to go well for me. 

Someone who is a real friend just sent me an article from Psychology Today, about how you can tell if you're in love, and one characteristic they described was feeling joy when your beloved accomplishes something, even if it is something which you can not do.  Just as this should be true for romantic partners, I think it should be true for friends.

I don't have the world's strongest ego, so I really need to distance myself from people who aren't supportive.   I did break things off with "the screenwriter," but I have a few others who aren't so supportive either.   

What do you say or do if you encounter this sort of jealousy?
I

[clara]

I regard it as a foregone conclusion they're not going to be supportive, countrygirl, because they never are and never will be.  In fact, I expect them to change the subject/find a way to make it about them by claiming they've done the same or something similar with an even greater success etc.  It's gotten to the point where if I'm around a PD (seldom, these days) I just don't bring anything up for them to tear down or dismiss.  I don't bother because I already know how they're going to react and I don't want to deal with it.  I don't want to hear what they have to say.  I remember when I was married to my uNPDexh he would always, and I mean always, find a way to "knock me down" when he got jealous of something I achieved.  So I just stay silent and put it all back on them by remembering they're not worth sharing good news with.  I'll save it for people who are supportive.  But if I end up inadvertently having to deal with their remarks that come from a place of jealousy and envy, I let them know their comments aren't going anywhere by reiterating that what I do I'm going to continue doing.  I'm not going to stop or change or alter anything because of that they say, so I shrug their comments off and let them know their comments are being shrugged off.  And when they seek unearned praise for something they claimed to have done (and you know good and well they've haven't) a bland, noncommittal "that's nice" can sometimes shut down their nonsense.

[countrygirl]

Hi Clara,

Thank you for your reply.  You always have such good advice, and I know your knowledge has been hard-won from experience.   

I need to learn to know that it is a "foregone conclusion" that PDs will respond this way.  In the case of one, I think I do accept this, but I am still there being supportive.  Now, I am going to practice your method and respond by saying "That's nice" when she brags to me. 

I think all of my problems with PDS, at this point, boil down to the fact that I keep expecting them to change.  If I could finally accept that they won't, I wouldn't keep trying to get them to!   So much wasted energy.   For example, when I told a good friend how one of the PD friends had treated me when I was upset about something, he told me to stop trying.  He reminded me that I used to reach out to my father when I needed support, and time-after-time, he didn't offer any.  He says I'm doing the same with this friend.  I immediately got that it is analogous situation, and that I must stop trying.   I really struggle with the "stop trying" part.  But I take heart that you, and many others, have learned not to expect anything.  Thank you again.   

[clara]

You're welcome, countrygirl!  You'll get there, and it will be kind of sad because when you get to that point, your view of people changes and not for the better.  You will no longer believe that people can change if they want and are capable of being better.  You see that, nope, in the PD population they will likely forever be the person they currently are and continue their path of destruction which may no longer affect you but you know will affect others.  The feeling that there's nothing you can do is kind of heartbreaking, because we want to think anyone is capable of redemption. 

And I just want to rant a little here.  What really, really irritates me, or can make me angry, are the flying monkeys the PD collects.  When the PD is done using them, so often they come back to you acting like nothing happened.  They don't want to admit they were used, they don't want to admit they did anything wrong.  They want you to forgive them without asking forgiveness.  They want you to do all the emotional work while they go their merry way probably looking for another PD to attach themselves to.  In the meantime, they want to be your friend and want you to forget all the wrong they did to you on the PD's behalf.  When you realize someone's a PD, you have tools and resources for dealing with them, but how do you deal with the flying monkeys who aren't PDs?  Sometimes, I feel more anger against them than the PD because I know the PD has a disorder they, for the most part, can't change.  But the flying monkeys should know better but still behave as they do.  And--full disclosure--I was a flying monkey for a PD, but at the time I genuinely thought the PD was telling me the truth about the other person.  Only later did I recognize the lies and exaggerations, and I made an attempt to reach out to the other person without success (and I don't blame him for ignoring me).  But anyway...rant over.  Sorry, I just had to get this out because it was really bothering me and I was wondering if I should go NC with the flying monkeys who are still around (because I have a lot of resentment for what they did).  Anyway, stay strong!

[countrygirl]

Hi Clara,

Yes, realizing that people will never change is heartbreaking.   I had to realize this about my mother when I was younger, but somehow held onto the belief that other NPDs could change...  It just occurred to me that I believed this because no one I ever met behaved as badly as my mother did.  Sorry to interject that, but this was a revelation to me.  For years, people have asked me how I've been able to tolerate such badly behaved people, and I'm sure part of the explanation is that it was because that behavior was familiar to me.  However, just this minute, I realized that everyone I knew, no matter how bad, behaved better than my mother, so that's why I still had hope they could change:  They seemed more normal to me than they really were.

On to the flying monkeys.  It's amazing isn't it, how often people just want to behave as if nothing has happened?  Certainly that's the easiest course FOR THEM.

I don't know whether you'd be willing to do this, but if these people want back in your life and if you're at all interested in trying with them, you might consider telling them at least a little bit of what you've written here.  If you want to get them to listen by being somewhat vulnerable ( vulnerability can disarm some people, can get them to let go of their defenses for long enough to listen) and explaining that you were once in their position, so you understand how it's possible to come under the sway of someone who does not treat others well.  Then tell them that their behavior hurt you, and that you need time before you can trust them again.  If they are unwilling to listen to you or deny what you say, tell them that you wish them well, but that a friendship is not possible at this time. 

It all depends upon whether you care enough about them to make this effort.   If you feel that you can no longer trust them, you can be polite but not really friendly toward them.  A lot depends, too, on whether they are a part of your social circle.  How often do you have to see them?  Going NC might be difficult if they are part of your social life; it might just result in more tension for you.  So if you do have to see them a lot, I advise been polite but not really friendly.  If you don't have to see them often, going NC might be easier than trying to talk with them.

Good luck, and let me know what course you decide to take.

[clara]

Thanks for the advice, countrygirl!  I had just sort of allowed the flying monkeys to drift away without any action on my part, and I guess I should just forget about them although they're part of a larger social circle that I really would like to keep in touch with (although I suspect one of the reasons I don't see them, either, is because of the FM's and their own guilt over their behavior).  It still makes me angry, however, and at this point I realize it's no loss on my  part if I tell them how I feel--since I no longer see them or any of the others--on the odd chance they do get back in touch.  Like I said, I haven't made any effort to contact them in the last year or so.  When I was still associating with them I was willing to let it all go, but with time away from them I had to be honest with myself and realize I couldn't.  I would remember their behavior every time I saw them, and they probably knew it.  So...the decision I've made is to not try to contact any of those people, and if they contact me, I'll just say why I'm not interested in staying in contact.  When I think about it, I never had much of a relationship with the non-FMs, they came along with the FMs, so they were never really "in" my life to begin with.  I wanted to believe they were also friends, but the reality was quite different.  Again, thanks for your advice and know I always appreciate it! 

[countrygirl]

Hi Clara,

I think you gave yourself good advice! 

Take care,
Countrygirl

[athene1399]

I've seen the jealousy both ways. Directly and indirectly. My Step-daughter's mom has BPD. When we would go on vacation SD would be so excited to go. Then when we would get back, after she would spend a lot of time with BPDm and people would ask her about the vacation with us, she would play it off like it was nothing. Nothing fun happened. So we felt that BPDm made her feel that she coudln't stay excited about her trip because she was jealous she couldn't take her herself.

And I've had more direct experiences with the "one uppers" who have to top your story or make your accomplishment feel small. I've been so proud of stuff and they act like it's the dumbest thing to tell someone. I feel with them it because what I have to say doesn't matter to them. Or maybe they are jealous. I'm not really sure. Cluster B PD's love being in the spotlight and they don't like it when someone else tries to share it. So they fight to take it back IMO.

[countrygirl]

Hi Athene,

It is so sad that your step-daughter has to protect herself by dialing back her description of her trip.  I often had to do that with my NPD former friend.  And also do it now with a couple of people. 

And I agree with your observation of how some PDs must hog the spotlight, and must one-up you.  Once I told the former friend that I had seen an oddly shaped, sort of triangular plane as I drove over a large bridge.  Shortly after I told her this, she visited a friend, and when she returned, she proclaimed: "My friend says SHE sees planes like this ALL THE TIME, because she lives near an airbase!"  I don't know if the written word can adequately portray her triumphant tone when she told me this!  Clearly, she wanted to convey that MY sighting was nothing in comparison to what her friend saw regularly.  But of course what struck me was how competitive my friend was, over a random observation I'd made.  I hadn't given it another thought after I'd told her, but obviously it had gotten to her. 

[athene1399]

Country girl,

That's the weird thing too. It's usually over something so trivial. And with your example, it almost feels like she was trying to prove you wrong, too. You nonchalantly mention an "odd" plane and she comes back with "my friend sees them all the time." Like they can't be odd because so-and-so sees them every day. Or maybe she just needed to feel included in the conversation and that's why she sounded triumphant because she could finally talk about it? But in the end, who really cares. It was just a funny story you mentioned for entertainment, not a competition. It's like the jealousy they feel turns it into a competition. Most of them can't change because they don't realize the problem is their behavior. it can be very sad and frustrating.