Taking money from narcissistic parents. Is it wrong?

[Stardust1982]

Hi guys. I've checked reddit on the subject of taking money from PD parents and the majority of answers said to not even think about it.
However, if you're living with them, it's likely that they're going to give you money at one point or another. For those who're still with their PDs, are you taking their money? And do you plan to give it all back?

I am asking because, you probably know that PD people give money to you with a hidden agenda-they'll use these small gifts later to make you do stuff for them, or just simply keep you in a (forced) relationship with them. For them money is not really money, but a tool of control. Am I right here?

Lately, I've been given money for my bday and few bucks (well, euros) here and there-however, I don't expect to take this money as gifts but as temporary loans. Being indebted to these people is the last thing on my mind.

Any thoughts around this subject would be really helpful.

[Starboard Song]

I've checked reddit on the subject of taking money from PD parents and the majority of answers said to not even think about it.
However, if you're living with them, it's likely that they're going to give you money at one point or another. For those who're still with their PDs, are you taking their money? And do you plan to give it all back?

I am asking because, you probably know that PD people give money to you with a hidden agenda-they'll use these small gifts later to make you do stuff for them, or just simply keep you in a (forced) relationship with them. For them money is not really money, but a tool of control. Am I right here?

Lately, I've been given money for my bday and few bucks (well, euros) here and there-however, I don't expect to take this money as gifts but as temporary loans. Being indebted to these people is the last thing on my mind.

I believe you ought not actually entangle yourself, legally, morally, or emotionally. Small cash gifts and small gifts of support -- from parents who can afford it -- do not bind you legally or morally. If they are going to one day holler "after all that we've done for you," they can do that with or without the money support they've provided. Count on it. Giving you a place to live has more cash value, probably, than the cash they are giving, right?

So I'd reverse that thinking: only ever accept money specifically as a gift, and never ever as a loan. If it seems like too much to accept as a gift, don't take it except to forestall an emergency.

My point is this: they cannot in fact use these gifts to make you do anything, or to keep you in a relationship. And when it comes time for anyone to coerce you emotionally, it is up to you -- up to you entirely -- whether you accept that emotional blackmail. So I'd suggest you gladly accept small gifts they can afford. I suggest you accept cash support that seems like ordinary parent-child stuff for people with their means. This is what healthy people expect to happen in a healthy relationship.

But don't take money in amounts you don't think they can afford. Don't take money in amounts that don't seem like normal parent-child stuff. Don't take money in amounts you feel you'd rightly "owe back." And never view yourself as owing them a penny. Such a feeling is the first half of instilling obligation and guilt: two things you do not need to assist them in instilling.

That's my two cents, and you don't owe me a penny.

[Hazy111]

Gifts from PDs are rarely "just" gifts.

[Sneezy]

But don't take money in amounts you don't think they can afford.

This is such a timely topic for me.  And I don't want to get this thread off track, so I may start a new thread in the elderly PD forum. 

My mom has announced that she is taking money out of her retirement account and giving it to her children (myself and several siblings).  I think this is a terrible idea for so many reasons.  It's not a lot of money and she can afford it, for now.  But the day may come when she needs assisted living (she is currently in independent living) or in-home help.  I think she should save her money in case that day ever comes.  And I'm worried that her stance will be "well, I gave my money to you kids, so now one of you needs to care for me."  And I sure as heck don't plan on ever living with her.

But, if I make a big deal out of it, and try to talk her out of it, then that will just feed the drama that she thrives on.  So do I let it go?  DH says we should just keep track of any monetary gifts she gives us, and if the day comes when she needs care that she can't afford, then we will give her back what she gave us. 

[Starboard Song]

Sneezy, that is a great and very important topic!!

Please do start up a separate thread for it, so we can keep this one focused on Stardust. I'll be looking for it!

[Sneezy]

Sneezy, that is a great and very important topic!!

Please do start up a separate thread for it, so we can keep this one focused on Stardust. I'll be looking for it!

Started a new topic in the elderly forum.  Feel free to delete my current response here, so that this thread stays on track.  Thanks!

[Stardust1982]

Thank you, guys for responding. So, as I've understood, they'll either way make me feel guilty for helping me out financially (by letting me live with them) and the important thing is for me to know how to deal with that guilt.
Yes, they used that card 'after all I've done for you' in the past and it's expected of them to act like that. But I guess, even if they didn't give me money gifts or other types of help, they'd still say that. One time my mom said she raised me and had to provide food for us, kids so we owe her now (meaning a relationship where things go her way-aka abuse).

Also, money gifts are never gifts for my parents. I have noticed how they expect me now for ex to do stuff for them (mostly hanging out closely with them which I dislike a lot) and let my boundaries down. Everything that these 2 people do is conditional and well-planned.

[Starboard Song]

You are pointing in the right direction. Accepting that the relationship will that the "after all we've done for you" no matter what, you can get straight to learning how to tell when you are really guilty, and when you are being manipulated. And next, how to not be too hurt or angry, even, when people try to manipulate you. You shall be a stone wall of strength.

You may decide it is best not to take any money ever, because it reduces the later arguments and hassle. That may make the most sense. The goal here is to maximize your quality of life and minimize the noise. You get to chart the course. And you'll become stronger all along the way as you learn to believe in yourself, and to manage toxic people with a minimum of hot words and angry heart.

Good luck! You are making you!

[p123]

For years Dad used to give me and my brother small amounts - £50 here and there.
I didn't need it but he'd insist and I'd buy the kids something so I thought no harm.

Then after years, his behaviour got worse and I pushed back and the money stopped suddenly.
He made a point of telling me he was "helping your brother out" but I got zero.

It wasn't the money I didnt need it. It was the attempt to punish me....

For years and years, I did everything for Dad and brother was down the pub every day. The brother got married, settled down. Lives a mile away got no kids, I'm 25 miles and 2 young kids. He visited Dad more than me because he could and suddenly he was the chosen one.

Probably 25 years I did it all, but just because I put my foot down a year ago this is how it went...

[SunnyMeadow]

Gifts from PDs are rarely "just" gifts.

So true. My uNPD mother likes to talk about the various things she's given my children and I over the years. This happens when we don't stay long enough when we visit.
A gift is never just a gift. I was taking some of this stuff just to get it out of her garage. Some things I could use, some I had no need for. I learned my lesson; I don't take stuff from her now.

Stardust, my advice is don't take money. I don't think it's wrong but it probably comes with too many strings.  I like your idea that this money is a temporary loan. Pay it back when you can and get them off your back.

[blistering]

If avoidable I would suggest to not take money from them. Any gifts you accept from Ns will always be used as ammunition against you later. In a 'you were happy enough to take my money but now you don't wanna talk to me?? You're ungrateful blah blah' kind of way.

And obviously if you accept money from them for something you maybe couldn't otherwise afford, it gives them a certain power over you.

[pianissimo]

It depends...

Being around parents is very triggering for me. I can't be around them more than a couple of days. I basically don't want anything to do with them.

But, it's natural to need parents financially and emotionally. I don't think these needs ever go away.

Here, you are the best judge of your parents. How is their attitude when they meet your financial needs? If they are reliable, it might be OK. Would they pay you regularly, timely, without prompting them to ask for money? If they would, you could take the money now and worry about the repercussions later. But, if there is a possibility that the whole loaning process turns messy (by failure to send money timely or asking for favours that will keep time and resources away from things you want to do to pay back that money), then it's not a good idea.

When it comes to NPD parents, it is not about what they give but it is about how they give it to you. Example, my father helped me to be financially independent in such a way it made me dependent on him. It's mind blowing, right? Alternatively, they may tell you they will give you the money, but they may not deliver for reasons unclear to you, and later on, they might tell you how they gave you money when you needed it (because, hey, they said yes).

I have no answer to your question. It might be something you have to go through with. I naively took driving lessons from my father three years ago, which reminded me why I wasn't close to him (and I'm his golden child). ( I must add that, at the time, I didn't know his behavour pattern matched NPD.)

[JustKathy]

I wouldn't say that it's wrong as much as it's risky. PD parents are very skilled at using money as a weapon. My mother kept all three of her children controlled by either giving or withholding money.

My situation is a bit different from yours in that I was never given a dime. Instead, GC brother and sister were given free cars, apartments, and college tuition, while money was withheld from me, even when I was homeless. As bad as that was, it made me feel free of any obligation to them. Both of my siblings remained trapped in what you referred to as a "forced relationship," while I was free to live my own life, and felt no guilt when finally going NC.

They DID try giving me money after I went NC (and I was 50 at the time). I had ghosted and left no forwarding address. They found my address online but couldn't verify that I was living there, so started sending me personal checks under the guise of  "housewarming gifts." I guess they figured I'd cash one of the checks which would verify that I had received it. I knew what they were up to and threw the checks away. They kept coming, at a higher denomination each time. The first one was $100 and they were up to $5000 by the time they stopped. As much as I needed that money, there was no way I was cashing any of those checks. (And as Starboard Song mentioned above, I knew that was more money than they had to throw away in their retirement years).

My Nmother continued to use money as a weapon right up until her death when she used our inheritance (or lack thereof) to control us and turn us against one another.

Sorry for drifting off on a tangent here, but the short story is that money coming from an NPD parent is usually done so with strings attached.

[carrots]

I accept money from my parents, which they can afford. I see it as compensation for what they did to me in my childhood and later. I'm not capable of working in the normal workforce. I survived about 2-3 years professional work after university and then had a total breakdown about 20 years ago. Though I have done odd very P/T jobs for up to a year, but often far less, I have never got back in the normal workforce. Not because there are no jobs or anything like that. It's really honestly connected to how cptsd plays out in my life. I do some freelance work, but it's not remotely enough to live off. I am making progress, but it's slow. Do some easy job?? I can't. I've tried.

In accepting money from my parents, I've come up against all sorts of PD behaviour - gaslighting, denial, outright lies - the whole works. With help from my therapist, I've been using this whole situation to practise distancing myself emotionally, setting firm boundaries, not getting drawn into their issues, not allowing myself to be manipulated, learning to not feel shame, and using tools from on here like medium chill and grey rock, which were impossible for me when I first came on this forum. I can now also simply ignore their emails for days or weeks on end, especially the "Poor Me" ones. My parents always used to deny that there were any strings attached. Maybe they didn't recognise those strings, no idea. I now take the money and ignore the strings.

My approach may not be for everyone but it's working out better and better for me as I progress in recovery.

[DaisyGirl77]

I wouldn't say that it's wrong as much as it's risky.

I 100% agree with this.  I accepted money from eF's uBPD/NM before I knew how she was (2008 recession, I was outta work for 5 years & needed her help to pay my bills while I searched for work, & after I landed a crappy job because it wasn't enough to cover everything).  Once I escaped from her after 4 years of hell, I paid it off in one lump sum using my school loans to help because I refused to have it continue hovering over my head; I wanted ALL connection to her to be completely chopped off, mentally, emotionally, etc.  I don't regret it, but I do regret having to put the loan toward that.  I was completely NC with her & used eF as the middleman.  I drew up a really basic document listing all the dates & amounts she loaned me, the total, & another document that the three of us signed that said she agreed to this payment in full & couldn't pursue me for extra money in the future.  Through eF, she tried to have me pay her back slowly, monthly, because she was afraid it'd affect her social security.  I told eF "that's not my problem.  Either she takes it or she doesn't, & I keep it, & she can't come after me for it again."

She took it.  She bitched a helluva lot over it, but she took it.

My point is that I'd be steeling myself for the invisible strings attached to montary gifts & chopping them down where necessary.  OR I'd refuse to take the money after all.  OR, accept the money as your due due to their treatment of you, like someone else said.  There's no "right" or "wrong" answer here.  The only right answer is what's right to YOU.

[Idnaoniw]

I quit feeling guilty or bound to it years ago.  Now I view it as payment for the suffering and pain.  No loans-Gifts only. 

[p123]

Im going through it all now because I won't break covid lockdown rules here and visit him....

He doesnt need anything - my brother is a mile away and hes got plenty of food etc but, in his head, its still an urgent issue that I visit him. So I said no.

So hes back to giving my brother £100s a week and me nothing. It does hurt after all I've done for him.

One positive is it does give me strength to say no to him now because of how badly hes treated me.

[Boat Babe]

My mother was once bemused because I wasn't playing along with her little emotional blackmail games. She blurted out that she couldn't understand why, given that I was her only heir! She didn't get it that I don't give a hoot about the money.

[Ladymm]

It has always an agenda behind, and not just money, the lunch they cook you, the life THEY gave you, the money,all

Sometimes, as a child, or due to some imminent life situation (like me) you are in the situation you are somehow dependant on them. But this is not healthy. To grow up and go, or to change your life and go - it is difficult with your mind confused.

I think if you are distanced and take some smaller gift just to avoid the drama I don't know - it is a kind of self protection. But if you feel they want to give you something big so that they can intrude in your life later on or also small and you feel uncomfortable, trust your gut and say NO. I also take some gifts sometimes just to shut them up. But I will never take the apartment they bought for me just to intrude in my life. But I live in said apartment for choices I did when I didn't believe in myself.

So I am now living in my parents home, work in their company - I have this feeling of repulsion all the time - but after much therapy I am now well prepare to jump and I will soon. But my advice is - don't even go where I am at. Even if you have barely to eat from your wage. You can do it. But I see you live with your parents and are dependent on them. I would advice you that since you are young try to somehow accept the idea, that in a few years time it will be healthy to you to become independent. when I was younger my brain was washed by the idea that I will start my adult life on things they would give me. On the other hand I chose to study law just to go away from them, but I never worked in this cos it is not for me and was unable to get independent.  So in short - I mean - somehow strenghten yourself to go away from them, rent an apartment, make mistakes whatever - just grow your internal feeling you will go and never be dependent on them again and never come back. I am 35 and believe you have the courage and strenght not to be where I am at now. However, the smaller occasional gifts as I wrote - trust your gut and drama - balance Geiger counter