uNM has "regrets"

[DaisyGirl77]

I went NC with uNM nearly 6 years ago after 30-something years of banging my head against the brick wall that is she.  Trying to fix things that are broken between us.  I now have a nephew who's 3.  Sis2 & I were talking about an unrelated thing that snowballed to my nephew & uNM & she told me that uNM regrets the way she "raised us, [me] particularly, now that she sees where [Nephew]'s at at the same age we were then."



That's all fine & dandy, but this woman has legitimately apologized perhaps 3 times in her life, & only after she royally fucked up.  All the other times it's "I'm sorry but if you..." or a complete refusal to utter "I'm sorry" in the first place because it's ___'s fault so they should apologize.  What the hell am I supposed to do with this information?  To me, it's still too little, too late.

[moglow]

Honestly? [Hard hearted Hannah just stepped up to my keyboard so bear with me...] You dont have to do anything with this pittance she's thrown out there to your sister. Her having regrets isn't an apology. An apology sounds like a face to face: "Ive made a lot of bad choices and I treated you badly. I'm truly sorry for the hurt I caused and I understand it's not something easily undone by a few words." She may have regrets but she doesn't get to use your sister as a messenger.

Shorter version: An apology is changed behavior, period. Everything else is just words to me.

[Call Me Cordelia]

My thoughts exactly, Moglow. I've been through very similar this week with my in-laws. They wish things were different, and it was communicated by my husband. Sure, I bet they do. The fact of your mother's regret is not your responsibility. If it's too little, too late, then that's what it is for you. What you do with this information is absolutely nothing. I think it's the lifelong over-responsibility programming still running that you are the one who's supposed to take care of her feelings for her, who's expected to respond regardless of her behavior.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi there,

I went through a version of this as well with uNPDm. She tried to say these things, and it was an attempt to manipulate me emotionally. Again.

But after 30 plus years, she was out of chances.

Her saying "I have regrets" is just a really really subtle form of gaslighting. It makes you doubt yourself, and that is the NPDs way through life.

Like Call me Cordelia said here -  at one time, you were programmed to take care of her feelings for her. So true. As the child of a NPD, we know better than anyone what it was like to have that programming installed.

When m told me her version of this, I was way passed the point of believing anything she said. I had finally realized that everything she said is toxic for me.

They have learned how to manipulate us, and words were a big part of that. I was gaslit for decades. Its naive to think she didn't get good at it, with that much practice.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Whatever boundaries you have with her should stay intact in my opinion. I think this is a pretty clear attempt (by her) to get past a boundary (either yours or yours sister's). NPDs don't like boundaries! It could be an attempt to triangulate as well. Check the toolbox here to see if any of the other things fit as well.

If you are NC with her but still in contact with your sister, then this could be a flying monkey situation as well. Sadly, in a FOO, going NC with one person will change our relationships with the other people who are still in contact with the PD. In my years on the boards here, I have seen a lot of us work hard to swim those waters.

Trees

[bloomie]

See what you did there DaisyGirl77 - you are already working harder on your mother's "regrets", communicated via triangulation, than she is. I imagine it is because you are a good and sincere person and do not want to overlook or miss true contrition.

We come here to no longer work harder on another's problems than they do, to no longer take responsibility for cleaning up the messes they have made in relationship to us and to no longer mitigate the uncomfortable emotions they are rightfully feeling.

Stay the course and trust yourself. If true contrition ever comes you way... you will know it.

And... this kind of thing can rock us off our balance for a bit. How are you doing with this today?

[looloo]

My interpretation was a little different.  I took your mother's "regrets" to mean that she's leaving whatever cycle of bad behavior she's seeing at your feet (your sister and especially you-even though you're the aunt, not the mother of the 3 year old!).  3 years old is really when the baby phase is over and official "kid" status begins, so I think lots of parents can have a hard time, and PD parents resent the children.

So I don't hear any insight or personal remorse from those words.  Just more blame shifting.

[DaisyGirl77]

I don't think Sis2 was being a flying monkey or triangulating.  The fuller conversation was between her, Sis1, & uNM where uNM realized she really did blow up whatever relationship we could have had when I was literally hours old, & her behavior just got worse toward me from then on.  That, I can see her saying.  She has mentioned (back when we were still talking) that she made mistakes with us, but I think now she's truly seeing just how badly she fucked it all up.  The issue is she's not said anything directly to me (yet).  I haven't held my breath for this before & I'm not going to start now because, frankly, I'd be dead before she expressed a true "sorry".

There's no indication that she wants to repair things so I suppose that's a relief as I've been disengaged since I dropped the rope 6 years ago.

See what you did there DaisyGirl77 - you are already working harder on your mother's "regrets", communicated via triangulation, than she is. I imagine it is because you are a good and sincere person and do not want to overlook or miss true contrition.

We come here to no longer work harder on another's problems than they do, to no longer take responsibility for cleaning up the messes they have made in relationship to us and to no longer mitigate the uncomfortable emotions they are rightfully feeling.

Stay the course and trust yourself. If true contrition ever comes you way... you will know it.

And... this kind of thing can rock us off our balance for a bit. How are you doing with this today?

My balance is off kilter.  My brain spent the entire morning dredging up old childhood hurts as well as the more recent, unrelated, hurt (~10 years ago now--eF & his brother hosted a family Thanksgiving without me.  His brother used the excuse of having a mother/son day.  He picked her up that morning.  I spent the holiday by myself, only to learn of this family dinner after my father brought her back home.  He wanted to "give us a break", knowing I'd spent 6 weeks asking everyone to come to us to have the dinner instead.  He lied.  Multiple times, to me, then tried to get out of the confrontation by saying "I don't want to get into this now" upon her drop off.  While his uN/BPD mother smugly watched it all go down.)  There's a lot I'm trying to work on letting go, then stuff like this comes up & it hurts just as badly as it did then & I don't want to let it go  I want revenge.  I want vengeance.  I want them to hurt just as badly as they hurt me.  I've been in T for years now & that's what we've been slowly working toward.

So...  I guess the best answer is I'm all over the place? 

[Andeza]

Daisygirl, when these memories come up and get in the way of your day, could you try saying to yourself something like this? "Self, what they did was cruel, intentionally so, and I didn't deserve it. What I do deserve is to have a good day today without them in my head, what needs doing/what fun thing can I do?"

When I found myself ruminating on my treatment or past conversations with uBPDm, I employed a less... um... normal tactic. I played a soundbite in my head of a metal song where the singer is death metal screaming "shut up." Works every time. That might be because my mom hated metal and I know that just hearing that soundbite would send her running!

[bloomie]

So...  I guess the best answer is I'm all over the place?

It makes sense to me that you would be all over the place. Flashbacks to being left out like this alongside of the conversation between your sisters and mom is a whole lot to work through inside of yourself. I am sorry you are going through this. So hard!

[Cat of the Canals]

I don't think Sis2 was being a flying monkey or triangulating. 

I interpreted Bloomie's comment about triangulation to be less about what your sister was doing and more about what your mother wasn't doing (i.e. communicating this regret directly to you). You're NC, so that makes it difficult, but the fact remains that this supposedly genuine remorse is entirely secondhand. I'm not NC, but my PDmom often expresses "regret" to people about our relationship. She has never, not once, expressed it to me. Which says a lot about how genuine it is.

The idea of comparing family relationships to romantic relationships when it comes to rational decision making and appropriate responses came up recently in another thread. If you broke up with someone because they'd treated you very poorly, etc. and hadn't seen them for six years, and you suddenly heard through the grapevine that they now had regrets about the way they'd treated you, what would you do? My guess is, at most, you'd think, "That's nice." and move on with your life without giving it much thought. I doubt you'd be thinking of getting back together with the person. And even if that idea were on your radar, there would have to be a lot of rebuilding done first. You certainly wouldn't jump back into the relationship where you'd left off.

So in the case of your mother, I think I'd utter a simple, "Well that's nice." and move on.

[DistanceNotDefense]

It totally makes sense that you would want revenge like that DaisyGirl. The things your family has done to you are so hurtful. I think it's honestly a good idea to make room for those revenge feelings....but don't act on them of course!

I listened to an analyst podcast recently talking about how we shouldn't banish anger or other negative feelings....when they rise forcefully in us it's something that informs us in some way, it's trying to tell us something, not to mention so many PD/dysfunctional families stunt our abilities to express anger and it will bubble up in us from time to time.

Did someone hurt you so bad that you want to just bop them in the face? Hit them over the head with a 2x4? The analysts were saying this could be a healthy outlet to allow these angry feelings to emerge as just a fantasy you say out loud to your therapist or a close friend....WITHOUT acting on it. We were disallowed those self-protective anger feelings as little children because if we acted on them we would be in danger....as adults, they need to be given a place so they are not stuck and we can move through them, but de-fang them so they harm no one.

My covert narc/enabler M has said similar things to be about her regrets raising me. Other family members too, but not to my face. With M it's like she slapped a bandaid on me and said "there all better now right?" It's also kind of guilting and woe is me, please make me feel better about the mom I was. None of it felt real or satiating.

I wouldn't buy it at all honestly. I know you think your sis didn't intentionally triangulate and your mom may have meant what she said, but triangulation is still triangulation. All that could be true too with triangulating still going on. People don't always consciously triangulate. They can mean really well (and not even be a PD) and there is something oddly satisfying and relieving about telling someone who is also close to the person exactly what you think, without telling the person themselves, because it is safer. People are drawn to do it subconsciously....it's easier than truthful confrontation.

I think it can also give you the false feeling like you did say something good and meaningful, just saying it out loud to someone who will give you a safer reaction, but it's about as meaningful or enriching as chewing on cardboard.

[Starboard Song]

To me, it's still too little, too late.

There's your answer.

It is damned hard, because we have so much instinct to fix or preserve family relationships. But you came to us with the hard and beautiful answer: it is still too little, too late.

Well done, you. Focus on preserving the other relationships, and never ever let those who do not reliably love you interfere with your relationships with those that do.

Be good. Be strong.

[Leonor]

Get out your hairbrush, stand in front of your most flattering mirror, and belt out a hearty version of Edith Piaf!

"Non, je ne regrette rien!"