Control

[square]

And regardless, whoever mixed up the gate, it should have been "whoops! Wrong gate! Haha, at least we figured that out!"

[square]

We had one where we had been given a FREE trip, all expenses, to a tropical island, by my boss. Hiw lucky am I?

It's time to leave and he has a bizarre meltdown about how selfish my boss was for giving us this trip. He couldn't even explain his twisted logic but he was certain it was true. Nobody had worse luck than us being saddled with this free winter vacation to a sunny beach. I was not remitely Out of the FOG then and I engaged in a full on yelling match because I could not even begin to understand it.

Thankfully that was one of the "good" ones - he blew out his poison, we got there in the nick of time, and he enjoyed it more than any trip.

Why couldn't we have done that without the poison?

My parents were not PD and I remember a lifetime of enjoyable trips. If any stress happened it was very minor and easily resolved and spoiled the trip not at all. I will never, ever get used to every vacation ruined and every holiday (in the US meaning) being stressful at best.

[SonofThunder]

SoT, this what I am not sure of. But, I think her parents were very much caretaking of her before I "took over". I am not sure she ever taken any responsivity for her own feelings or actions, there has always been some reason or someone to blame. When we started dating she had a best friend, she rapidly lowered the frequency they saw each others before my wife just discarded her and never spoke to her again. I thought this was so weird at the time as the reason she gave was such a stupid one, but I have seen her do this to every friend bar one or two since I have been with my wife. She had another "so called" best friend, her husband died a few years ago and my wife only attended the funeral out of duty and then didn't take any time to either go and visit this friend or have her over at ours. She had another friend through the children, they became really good friends and my wife raved about how good friend she was and then suddenly stopped seeing her, reason she gave was that the friend was too busy so she didn't want to ask her to see her. Read flags all over and shows the immaturity and lack of seeing others feelings. I have seen first hand with my inlaws how my wife acts out like a ten year old and they bend over backwards for her demands and really treat her like a child (her dad was def a NPD and her mum either had severe fleas or is a PD herself).  Not sure where I want to go with this, but I think it is that she actually never has been mature enough and always have had one or two caretakers. Anyone that can't take care of her is discarded brutaly.

But to function in day to day life she is fine, no problems arranging for food to be purchased, bills to be paid, clothes to be bought etc. But to give me a hug when I have had a bad day has never happened, the opposite all the time though.

EM, what you describe in the above post is very common with PD's as relationships with a PD are all built around changing and fragile PD needs.  What I was trying to convey was that you experience a feeling of "throwing her to the wolves", but imo, shes lived in an adult world without you before and she can do it again. Imo, all PD's need a caretaker who will provide a supply and when your stbx realizes your supply is dried up, she will put on her adult mask once again and attract another target, while treating you like wolf who ruined her life. 

Andeza wrote:

"BPDs are capable of masking for a long time. It's entirely possible for them to woo somebody without the mask ever slipping, or only slipping in subtle ways. But it ends up being a hardcore bait and switch in the end." 



It was for you.  It will be for the next guy also, when all your 'escaping' is done. 

SoT

[Boat Babe]

She hasn't hesitated to throw you to the wolves. That incident in the car is just nuts.

She's being nice at the moment? Yeah, well, I'm not impressed. Neither should you be.

[Simon]

 

....and when your stbx realizes your supply is dried up, she will put on her adult mask once again and attract another target, while treating you like wolf who ruined her life.

Spot on.
All their ex's are crazy, all the problems in the relationships are caused by their partner, not them, and when they do finally move on to someone else, you (the most recent ex) will be painted as the worst human being alive.
They will have nothing but contempt and hatred for you.
You will see it in their eyes.

PDs are pathologically selfish.
They really can't see beyond themselves.
I recently lost my Father, and a ex girlfriend from about 4 years ago phoned me up as soon as she heard about it.
A woman I saw just for a couple of months before the pandemic started, which got in the way of our relationship due to distance, also phoned me up when she heard.
My PD ex, who knew my Father quite well, and literally lives 60 seconds walking distance from me, hasn't contacted me in any way to offer condolences.
I didn't expect her to, but it does validate what I already knew about her mental illness.
As Dr T says, "Adults end relationships. They don't abandon people!"
It's only the emotionally arrested that think that's acceptable behaviour.
It seems childish because that's exactly what it is.
It's from a mind that lives emotionally as a child, and there's no point expecting mature or rational behaviour.

PDs just don't care about anyone but themselves, and when it appears that they are kind or loving, it's nothing more than an act.
It's theatre.
It's no more real than when you watch Game of Thrones or Friends.
It's fake, scripted, and well rehearsed.

And the funniest thing is, when you're out of it long enough, and you look back, or see it in other people's behaviour, it's embarrassing to think that we fell for it.
It really is.

Being outwitted by a witless person is not a proud memory, but it's something we all share here, whether we like to admit it or not.

There are signs that she's wearing you down e.m., and that she is regaining control over you, and that you will continue to put off filing indefinitely.
I hope I'm wrong, for all your sakes.

[escapingman]

Simon

"There are signs that she's wearing you down e.m., and that she is regaining control over you, and that you will continue to put off filing indefinitely.
I hope I'm wrong, for all your sakes."

She is and she isn't. I have stalled a bit, but my mind is clear and I have no desire to stay. But, at the same time I have taken the opportunity to have a rest whilst she is having a quiet period. I am also very mindful what damage she could do right now smearing me to the kids a couple of weeks before Christmas. I know she will smear whenever, but still....

I can see it in her that she thinks she is getting closer to change my mind, that will make her mask slip, it was close today for example.

Thanks for all support as always to all of you.

[escapingman]

I am not going to write to much, but the script she is following.... Had another couples therapy session and she really think it is about winning. I tell her and the therapist how I feel, she gets angry and makes it about her. She is telling the therapist really weird things I am supposed to have done, but I understand. Not really sure what she think she will win if she turns the therapist against me, but I get it.

[Boat Babe]

Your focus is still on your wife. What she's playing at, what she will do next, what she's thinking etc etc. You are caught in trauma bondage. It's a horrible place to be.

You need to totally focus on yourself and the children. What do you need? What must you do next? How can you put this in place with all the damage limitation in your power?

This is so hard but staying is surely harder?

[square]

PDs are really good at making others prioritize them over everybody else. It's what they do.

They enforce it through FOG.

So whereas you have a situation where you have been forced, by her toxic behavior, to choose between her and your kids/yourself

you would rationally make the right choice

but she has heavily weighted the scale in her favor.

Hence you are thinking more about her needs, keeping her happy, than anyone else's including your kids.

Because they are relatively quiet in their pain. Well, they are expressing it, but they haven't leveraged it. So your wife is outshouting all of you, and your needs and your children's needs are falling by the wayside.

No judgement, just my perspective from the outside of this - and outside perspective is so critical when your wife has so abnormally dominated your internal map of the world (as PDs do).

If tomorrow is the last straw for you, do you know what you will do? Do you have a plan? I would hate to see you be emptionally ready one day but be stuck unprepared - and then slide back into the web.

[JustKeepTrying]

escapingman,

I started reading this thread a few days and it took some time for me to read it though - I have to admit it was very triggering.  Your descriptions closely mirror my experience with my xOCPDh.  He would swing from tantrum to silent to love bomb and kept my head spinning for decades.  I excused his behavior with its work, our autistic son, my cancer or his parents or something.  There was always something.  But when the FOG started to clear, I struggled for years still before I could pull the trigger.  How would affect the children?  Could I afford it?  Could he take care of himself?  And I was so tired - all the time tired - not just from treatment and all the trauma that involved but from him - there just wasn't any relief from his behavior that allowed me to plan or see or think or wish or dream or be.

My divorce ended two years ago but due to the pandemic, we didn't sell the house until yesterday.  Six weeks ago when we signed the papers to sell, as we sat with the realtor and had a decent discussion with rational back and forth, I had the thought maybe I can make this work again.  Was I wrong?  Then we went out to our cars and I asked him to lift something and he had an explosive tantrum with yelling, screaming and swearing.  For a moment I thought he would hit me.  This is after weeks of clearing a house he lived in and left like an episode of hoarders complete with maggots and mold.  And yet I had that thought.  and the guilt with it - guilt for thinking it; guilt for divorcing and guilt for leaving him. 

You are going to wonder if your actions are merited while you are still with her.  Those moments of lucidity are what kept us in it.  But it's a mirage.  A dream and not real. 

Do I still love my xOCPDh?  Yes.  Will I go back? no.  For the first time in my life, I am NC with my NPDsis and xOCPDh.  and it feels normal.  Steady.  Peaceful.  I feel self-determined and able to care for my kids.  Even though they are adults.  My GC and SC have deep scars and we have issues with each other.  They are deeply in the FOG.  My biggest regret is not leaving earlier - allowing that continued drama in their lives.  But all I can do now is encourage therapy and offer to pay for therapy.  No strings.  Just support.

You have been encouraged to take care of yourself and stop feeding her drama.  It's tough, I know.  Habits are to break.  After I signed the sale papers, I drove by the house and there in the driveway was the car and camper my ex got in the divorce and had sat there for two years.  I texted him multiple times to remove them and yet today, when the new owners move in - they will be there.  In the past it would drive me crazy to see that he wouldn't take care of it and not having time is not an excuse when you have literal years.  But as I sat there last night saying goodbye to my home of 30 years, I thought "That's his problem.  He is a grown a** man and if they are still there then that's not my problem.  No my issue and legally, I can't do anything.  But most of all, I don't want to."  I am sharing this so you know that is your future - the ability to discern between you and her.  The ability to separate yourself and draw those clear boundaries.  To live free from the drama, trauma and abuse.

You got this.  Talk to your lawyer.  Know the law and just do it.  I was a shadow on this forum for years before I pulled the trigger.  And when I did, it was quick and clean.  In days he was served and it was all over.  Again, you got this.  We got you.

[escapingman]

Thanks for steering me back on myself. I am so tired and worn down, I am struggling to focus on anything and I am not really managing my job very well at the moment. All I want to do is sleep and hope this nightmare is over when I wake up. I am away for a couple of days right now and just having been no contact for 24 hours is making me feel a bit better, but I need 24 days (or more) of proper rest from her.

I feel a bit better for agreeing to do these couples therapies session, at least I now know and can't think "what if". She will not change and I am not prepared to be her caretaker so there is only one solution. As she has shown she is not going to agree to this solution I just need to file. End of. This is about saving my own life, if she gets hurt so be it.

Thank you all for taking your time to guide me.

[hhaw]

Sliding off the end of our rope isn't the optimal way to file divorce, but it happens, bc waiting for the right time, for enough energy.....for a good time never comes, ESP if we're living with the PD, ime.

I remember asking my T for ADD meds and he laughed at me.....I was just so tired AND struggling with unADD.  All the time.  And the PD had access to me, my space and our children.  The PD was interrupting my sleep, waking me at 3am wanting to pray or leveling calm threats about harming our young DDs or talking about gifting me a divorce if I'd "just be nice" to him. 

You don't think your wife is sharp enough to sabotage you and the divorce, but you acknowledge her access to you is taxing you, your relationship with your children and your energy levels.  THAT'S her plan.  She's been doing it and she'll do it till you break that cycle.

It's very difficult to file.....esp when we're  exhausted and feel the children will suffer more, but sometimes things have to get a little worse in order to get better.

This is the case when divorcing a PD, ime.

Living apart from the PD.... limiting their access to you in all ways will feel like opening a door to sunshine after living in a dark closet w/o oxygen, ime.

You'll find your strength again.  You'll find yourself.

[Simon]

Living apart from the PD.... limiting their access to you in all ways will feel like opening a door to sunshine after living in a dark closet w/o oxygen, ime.

[JustKeepTrying]

 

[escapingman]

Thanks again, all of you.

You are right, she keeps knocking me off my path by acting unpredictable. I need to make a plan and escape, I need to be out to think. She has been behaving the last month, or behaved better than she ever done, and that has probably given me some false rest. It's no rest when I need out. Even when she is not losing it and shout, she is still wearing me down with just being around me. The real problem is that I love her, or more like I love who I want her to be. But, I hate who she actually is, the bully, the victim, the you name it. She has done what I have told her she needs to do, but I am sure this is just a game plan from her and she is not genuine. I see her face when I say anything remotely touching criticism in the sessions we have, she does not agree. This is wearing me down. She say something and do something else. Doing MC and GR kills me from inside, I hate being this person. I am considering dropping it completely and see how fast she change.

Sorry for being so weak and not coming with any progress.

[JustKeepTrying]

escapingman,

You are not weak.  You are still partially in the FOG.  And we have all been there.

I still love my xOPDH.  Even as recent as a few months ago.  I sat across from him and signed the papers to sell our family home.  We had this lovely synced mind and were talking normally and getting along and it was great.  And in my mind fluttered the thought - should I return?  Could we go again?  I miss him and miss who is now.  And then after the realtor left, I asked a favor and he tantrumed.  I for a moment thought he would hit me but we were outside in the front driveway and he caught himself and I stepped back and the FOG cleared for me.  Again, in the space of an hour, I felt that swirl and pull and then pop, it was over. 

To keep your resolve, read over your posts here.  If you journal, read them over.  Try to read them as we see them.  From an outside perspective.  Without your emotions.  It may help with your resolve.

Also, be clear on your options for divorce with an attorney.  Make sure you answer all those questions.

And here is something to think about - something other people do in the world I was unaware of - Divorce and stay together.  I offered it to my x.  I told him I wanted to separate financially so I could control my own finances and if he stayed in therapy and worked hard, we could get back together.  I would be willing to do the same.  I told him I loved him but I could never be tied financially to him again.  And I needed him to work on his temper and honesty.

Of course, he didn't and we didn't reconcile.  But my offer was sincere and clear and I laid out my boundaries for him to be back in my life.  It was his choice not to accept.  It hurts but it's his choice. 

All of its is food for thought.   

[escapingman]

Thanks Justkeeptrying.

I have thought about something like that, at least offer her the option of staying together but live separately. I know it won't be accepted, and I know she would lash out. I just keep falling for it when she turns in to that little vulnerable child that needs looking after, only problem is that I want an adult companion and not a child that will behave like a child. I want to be able to have mature discussions, real intimacy and someone to enjoy life together with. Even if she stopped all her drama and shouting, I would still be left with a child. This is so hard, I just can't pull myself together and just go. I suppose I just have to get through Christmas and create a real plan to action in the new year, but always be prepared to just go if things turn ugly.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

I agree with the prior posts.  You may partially still be in the fog.   I found my heart and head had to be in the same place to make my move; when it happened, it happened fast.  Perhaps be kinder to yourself?  You'll move forward and it will be when your time is right.  Sure, I look back and wish I ended this marriage years ago.  But, years ago I was in the fog and not able.

Again, in agreement - read your prior posts, read the other ones, give yourself times of peace and quiet, find a hobby you like....

 

[escapingman]

Agree, I must still be somewhat in the FOG but with a clear view. I am worried about leaving her, I think that the obligation and then guilt about hurting her. But I know it has to be done, but I don't think I can stay in the same house as her as the will keep circling the IDD round me until she gets me again. I think my plan has to involve leaving, just get somewhere to stay and then go through the divorce from there. If I can get enough evidence I could not stay for mental abuse reason I would have hoped that could help with the moving out bit. I need to speak to my solicitor about this.

Lately I have had some really open talks with SG, she has initiated the conversations so I have had to validate her. She complains about how stbx projects feelings on to her, how stbx ignores her, how stbx shouts at her, how stbx makes her feel bad. I think all this is enough to force me to file. GC has stopped eating pizza, every time I suggest pizza she shouts and tries to turn stbx against me and complains all I feed her is pizza (stbx hates pizza). Yesterday stbx was out and I was eating on my own with the kids, guess what GC asked me to order? Pizza.... Another reason, I need to go. GC is so manipulated and tries to get stbx on her side against me or SG all the time.

Something that I haven't had for years has started to come back, the desire for a real relationship. I have thought never again, but I think as I am getting Out of the FOG my feelings and real emotions is starting to come back. The highjacked ones, the fleas are going and real life is getting back. I have tried to be apart from stbx as much as possible the last months and invented all reasons, it is working, but I need even less contact. Every time I am away from her life is coming back, slowly. I have started to go for massages, just to feel a hand on my back that is not there for control is amazing. I never spent money on things purely for me before, it feels awesome.

2022 will be my year, I promise myself it will be the year of freedom.

[escapingman]

I need to really change my mentality, focus should only be on me (and the kids). Whatever I decide, and whatever I do, should be done with my wellbeing first and not give stbx one thought. She has blown it and as far as I am concerned it is irreparable. So until I make my move, I need to concentrate wholeheartedly on stop thinking about her and how any decision affects her. This I would have liked to have a T to help me with, but without one (for now) I need to work on this with myself. I must be able to care for stbx and love her, but not caretaker her and live with her. It is a long time since we had a romantic relationship, and it was very much one way. I remember the exact moment I decided I had enough of that part, she asked me (demanded) to have a foot massage every evening we were watching tv. One evening, I asked her, can you please massage my feet as they are really hurting. She looked at me, laughed, and said no way I touch them. Since then I have never touched her feet, or done anything in affection towards her, it was like something died at that moment. I realised that it had always been the same, same when we used to make love, I was merely used as a tool for her (needs and control) and my needs were never on her agenda.

I have really started making plans in my head of how I want my life to look like, next step is to put it down on paper and start visualising it. Thank you all for supporting me and steering me in the right direction.