Discussion with spouse before filing the divorce petition

[findingmypath]

I've been interviewing potential lawyers for an eventual divorce.   I just wanted to ask other people here how they've handled the situation with their spouse.  My uPDH is very unpredictable and tends to lose control of his temper easily.  He is also very very tenacious about getting his way - meaning, he will talk and talk and talk and talk and campaign and campaign, etc about a topic until I give in.  The discussion can go on for days.  Weeks.  Until he gets his way. 

So, I'm thinking about just filing for divorce and not discussing the topic with him.   It seems like a terrible way to end a 17 year marriage - without any discussion, etc, but I really just want to serve him papers and start the process.   I don't want to engage at all with him about the topic.   How have other people handled this?   

[Rebel13]

findingmypath, you absolutely have the right to do what you need to protect yourself from abuse. You don't owe your husband any discussion or explanation that you don't feel like having, especially if you know from experience it will not be productive. Others here will chime in with their thoughts and wisdom, but please handle the situation in the way that you know in your mind and heart is best for you.

[square]

In my opinion, just filing is the only way to go.

He will claim that you "owe" him whatever, but that's his twisted thinking. You have already tried everything you can think of to fix things. Of course he thinks you are required to be subject to his threats, control, wearing down, etc.

You can fight this feeling in your own mind by asking yourself what HE owes YOU. Hiw many times have you tried to talk to him? How much effort did he make? He sees it as a one way street where you owe him unlimited chances, perfect behavior, total empathy toward him. Has he given you perfect behavior, total empathy, unlimited effort?

You don't have to be perfect to be done.

What are your plans for when the papers are ready? You need to be safe. This is not a "conversation" you need to have at all. You'll need to have a place to go and all your (important, anyway) stuff out. Maybe you will try to keep the house but just asking him to leave is not in the cards. It's best to be gone and let him find the papers on the table.

[MaxedOut]

I handled the situation from an undisclosed location, LOL. It can be super weird to think about thinking about just filing, or separating without talking. Most of us have never done such a thing and are used to having conversations, valuing in-person talks as part of respect and such. But those endings in other relationships (whether we or they or both made the decision) were maybe not in an abusive dynamic.

My separation was actually unplanned and played out while I was staying at a hotel due to my ex's anger/blow-ups. I was trying to have some serious talks about abuse and what needs to happen to continue and she just started talking over me, demanding to know if I was leaving, yelling the question over and over. I had not intended on it at that time, but the verbal abuse steamrolling me while literally trying to address abuse and the cutting me off each time I replied with anything other than a yes or no... well, that did it!

I get that it seems like a terrible way to end a 17 year marriage, but it's your H creating a dynamic where other options open you up to continued abuse and manipulation. It sounds like you know his playbook pretty well. The range of ways to handle things are those where he doesn't get to subject you to that. Where his unpredictable anger and behavior does not put you at risk. So yes,  just serving papers while you are safely out of the house is a great option.

The book Splitting helped me think through things and I had done some safety planning beforehand. Months prior I had also removed a number of important papers and things to a safe place (friends house or area I could access without entering the house). I made sure the legal filings used a PO Box and any other stuff needing an address, so that email and phone were the routes available (I later blocked calls).

Square is spot on, you do not owe him time, attention, explanations, presence, closure, hearing you out, etc.

I was so habituated to JADEing that it was hard to not think in those terms or to hear her voice/perspective louder in my head than my own thoughts. But far from the impossible bars PD spouses set for us (and their failures to treat their spouses with respect and caring) simply not wanting to be in a marriage any longer is enough to end it in whatever ways you need to for you.

From reading a lot of stories about how folks did stuff, many regret not being more absolute/distanced from the beginning (whether in terms of process or going no/low contact, or how they dropped the news). I do not recall forum members regretting being too absolute/distanced (like I should have talked to him instead of having him served).

Safety (physical and emotional and mental) first. And it sounds like you are Done, so it serves no purpose engaging in back and forthing. Your will likely have to navigate attempts no matter what, so prioritize and protect what you want from this transition.

[SeaBreeze]

I consulted an attorney before I left. The original plan was to file, leave while ex was out somewhere, and have him served the papers a few days after I left.

What actually played out: I left a month sooner than planned. I had to leave while he was home. I told him I "needed a break". (Thankfully his surprise worked in my favor and I left safely.) I waited a few days to tell him I wasn't coming back. Another few weeks before I said divorce. It was a whole year after I left when he beat me to the punch and filed one week before I was finally going to file.

In spite of the process playing out differently than I had planned, the end result is the same. I got out, safely. And we are now divorced. So my advice is, make a Plan A, and a Plan B, but be ready for a possible Plan C. The important thing is to be safe and do what you need to do.

[MaxedOut]

Good point of emphasis SeaBreeze. I prepped some stuff in case of unexpected split, figured out other stuff for planned exit, had a few things planned specifically for emergency safety issues, etc.

What actually happened was a mix of things (plans b and c I suppose). Having prepped for various scenarios really helped. I was a total mental mess the day it happened, and was getting rapid fire texts/calls/emails from my ex. I was totally in sympathetic nervous system state (flight, freeze mostly or flight, freeze, freak the f out!).

Then I remembered I had a checklist of stuff to do early on  (stored on google drive so I could get to it in whatever situation). I was still scrambled mentally, but that helped a lot. It included a number of things from this list: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=66.0.

[IsleOfSong]

This is all such good information! I am hoping to pull the plug on my marriage in the coming months, but it's so hard to know what to expect — will she be cool, will she be irate, will she be blindsided, will she expect it? At the end of the day, I can't control her reaction, but I can control my readiness for anything, and this is a good reminder of all that.

Having two kids together and 26 years of marriage with her, I feel like a wordless disappearance is a bit harsh. But then again, why try to have a civil conversation and basically volunteer for more bullshit, gaslighting, and abusive twisting of the truth if I don't have to?

Findingmypath, please keep posting and let us know how it goes for you. Best of luck!

[newlyawakened]

IsleofSong and Findingmypath, wish you both good luck and clear minds in making and sticking to your decisions.

I share my own experience here: when I filed, I decided to stay and tell my uBPDw in person and the drama quickly overwhelmed me. The ensuing flip from abuse to apologies/promises/love bombing sent me right back into the FOG. My attempt failed. I advise the same as others here to not do it in person and maintain NC/LC after you have delivered the news remotely. IMO, if you want to respect the length of the relationship you can choose to be authentic in your message on why you decided to end it - but how you deliver the message is not relevant especially when dealing with disordered partner. it is safest to be delivered remotely via text, letter, voice or video message.

[losingmyself]

I left 2 years ago, a week after Mother's Day. I had spent nearly a year drawing up my divorce papers from the safety of my work, and my daughter's cell phone, and I was lucky enough to have sisters who loaned me the money I needed to pay the lawyer. I was also very lucky to have an employer who understood when I needed in person meetings with my lawyer. Things just fell into place. The divorce was finalized August 28th of that year!
I knew, because I had tried for nearly 15 years to explain how his behavior hurt me and the kids, with no change, that talking would be fruitless. So, with none, or very little guilt, I left work early on a Friday, ran home with my daughter and filled my car with everything necessary for a couple months, then moved in with my sister a town away. I left the divorce papers on the coffee table, & instantly blocked him on everything on my phone, so I have no idea what he tried to say to me. Don't care. The only personal thing I said was that we had nothing to talk about, so don't try, and leave me, my family, and my work alone. And also, get yourself and all your shit out of MY house. He knows. And I don't need the drama. There's been a fairly relentless smear campaign against me, but I don't care. Anyone who matters isn't buying it. It's mostly his family.
I know I was and still am very blessed to have an army of angels around me, but I wanted to let you know that everyone does. It takes opening up. That was my first step. No more hiding my abuse.
Make a plan
Find a good lawyer who can deal with this kind of personality, and won't buy the BS. Hopefully the financial part will fall into place. You might get help from your local DV center, if necessary.
Act normal. If they see that something is different, things will change. They'll go back to hoovering to pull you back in, or deepen the financial abuse. I wasn't able to save money, because he called it my "running away money" WTF. He didn't consider that I could borrow it.
Write your ICK list, and visit it often.
Get your documents and important things together. They can just be in a pile, just so you know where they are, so you can grab them.
This is all in that post referenced earlier, so I'm not telling you anything new.
Just, don't feel guilty about leaving the divorce papers on the coffee table and leaving. There's not going to be closure, just more empty BS.
And you don't need to know what he says after you leave. None of it is true, so block every way he has to contact you. If it's important, he can relay it through your lawyer.
This is long, and probably unnecessary. I haven't spoken a word to him since that day, and it feels great!
I'm in my home, finally, I'm working two jobs, but that's ok, it helps me to afford things like gifts for my adult kids, and a great trip we just took together on Labor Day weekend!
Life is good for me.
I can't help him. He was pulling me down. Drowning me. I had to let go before it was too late. 
Good luck and God's blessing to all of you.
And thanks to all the warriors here. This is where my fight started. And I won.