Boundaries, my aha moment of the day

[Spring Butterfly]

Writing a post in response to another member about boundaries I came to a realization I want to share. Some of you here may remember I have never outwardly stated my preferences with boundaries to my uPDm and this morning I suddenly realized why.

There is no reason to state the basic human right of being allowed my own thoughts, my own opinions, the right to be spoken to without abuse, condescension, or other 'attitude' and tone. It's my basic human right so why does it need stating as a preference ?!?!?

Submitting to anything else is unacceptable end of story so off I go = boundary.

Thoughts?

[Liza]

Yes I caught what you wrote on the other thread. Good stuff!

There is no reason to state the basic human right of being allowed my own thoughts, my own opinions, the right to be spoken to without abuse, condescension, or other 'attitude' and tone. It's my basic human right so why does it need stating as a preference ?!?!?


Who are you stating this to, yourself or another person?  If it's someone else is it JADEing? 

[WomanInterrupted]

Most of the time, I didn't state my boundaries to unBPD mom because she just wouldn't GET IT:  it wasn't about what *I" wanted - it was about what she *expected.*

The few times I did state boundaries were met with meltdowns, tantrums and threats to kill herself (either separately or at the same time):

1.  To not question my decision not to have children
2.  To not expect me to drop everything and take her or my dad to the doctor/hospital
3.  To not expect me to drop everything to take her to visit dad in the hospital
4.  To not expect me to drop everything to be her servant while dad was in the hospital

That doesn't sound unreasonable, does it?  But to unBPD mom, it was tantamount to TREASON - and only made her up the ante.  "You're gonna do that?  Watch this!  You ain't seen nothing yet!  Just WATCH me waif out and become even more demanding!"

Um...no.  Just...no!  As you said, all I wanted were my basic human rights, but unBPD mom didn't seem to think I was *allowed* to have any.

Medium Chill, Low Contact and avoidance were just *so* much easier.

[napyhed]

There is no reason to state the basic human right of being allowed my own thoughts, my own opinions, the right to be spoken to without abuse, condescension, or other 'attitude' and tone. It's my basic human right so why does it need stating as a preference ?!?!?

[Rosaleemarie]

Writing a post in response to another member about boundaries I came to a realization I want to share. Some of you here may remember I have never outwardly stated my preferences with boundaries to my uPDm and this morning I suddenly realized why.

It 's why I like the Pete Walker Bill of Human rights so much.  I need the reminder.  My FOO neither gets it or cares so I am not having that discussion with them. 

[Spring Butterfly]

There is no reason to state the basic human right of being allowed my own thoughts, my own opinions, the right to be spoken to without abuse, condescension, or other 'attitude' and tone. It's my basic human right so why does it need stating as a preference ?!?!?


Who are you stating this to, yourself or another person?  If it's someone else is it JADEing? 

I'm not stating it to anyone but say that because so often we talk about stating boundaries but what's really under discussion is communicating a preference. To me the boundary is leaving toxic situation, not defining for someone else what toxic is but beyond that even with preferences three are not preferences.

Telling someone 'if continue to yell I'm hanging up' is a boundary (hanging up) but not being yelled at is a basic human right, it's beyond a preference. Telling someone 'I only respond to emails once a week' is a preference with a boundary attached. The number of times one chooses to email is a preference and it's their human right to have the freedom to make that choice.

When we think in terms of standing up for ourselves i think we need think beyond basic human rights as simply restating the right but to have the strength to possess these rights, to feel we have a right to them in the first place because we were raised not only to be unaware they exist but to feel we don't deserve them in the first place when we find out they exist.

For me I don't think its wrong to quietly and with much strength take and possess my rights. I don't need to get in my uPDm face and tell her I have the right to my own opinion. This is something I need to feel from deep within and simply do it.

When I do need to verbalize its when uPDm tells me 'you don't feel that way' and I calmly tell her 'yes and I do and you don't get to tell me how I feel' and walk away.

[bloomie]

Spring Butterfly - Thank you for articulating so well this profound distinction for us! I have so often lived and communicated from a place of having no rights instead of standing on the foundation of having the right to be treated with respect and dignity, the right to my own opinion and to choose my own lifestyle, friends, how I celebrate, how I spend my time and money, who I allow into my circle.

I understand I was groomed to not understand this and act from a more defensive posture that is when I declare my rights to be treated with consideration. Thankfully, I am a grown up girl now and am learning to act on those rights by choosing behaviors and words that reflect those core values for myself and others.

Thanks for a great discussion! 

[kande]

I was told not to state boundaries, just to HAVE them!
"I don't like the shouting on the phone so I'll call you tomorrow when things are calmer" then say bye and hang up.
"I'm really busy with my own housework today, perhaps you should look into a cleaning lady, I'm noticing that you're calling me every day now, unable to do things"

I started the boundary setting but it didn't get a good response!

[napyhed]

We no longer get along now that I have boundaries.  It is not too much to ask that she stop telling me of how she abuses other "bad people" because it hurts and no I should not have to bear the pain because I am a bad person too.

[kande]

We no longer get along now that I have boundaries. 

Me too! as soon as I had boundaries the distortion campaigns started, as did the flying monkeys, silent treatment, all of the pd behaviours just came out full hit!

[napyhed]

We no longer get along now that I have boundaries. 

Me too! as soon as I had boundaries the distortion campaigns started, as did the flying monkeys, silent treatment, all of the pd behaviours just came out full hit!

It makes me wonder how much I put up with before.  Did they get worse or did I take the rose colored glasses off.  It seemed so normal and okay but obviously it was okay at the cost of my emotional well being.

[kande]

I think they got worse because WE got stronger! I think the rose coloured glasses were always there, some other factor (ill health, realisation, a wooh moment) made us question things, we question the dynamics with our pd, start setting boundaries as we realised we had NONE. They pick up that you are changing and getting stronger, and they try harder to stop you gotting Out of the FOG, they do more and more of the PD behaviours and at the same time we are reading up more about it and are actually seeing it for the first time with an understanding. Before it was just odd or hurtful. only when we find forums like this and share our stories to the glasses come off!

[napyhed]

    Yup.
Mine gets REAL NICE until she hooks me then the PD flares up again. 
Funny how it seems so complicated yet we all generally share the same story.  The PD's think they are original but no they are just like all the others.  They are not so complicated after all, easy to predict. 
The last time I fell for her DH warned me and yes he was right.  I hoped for too much once again.

[kande]

They are not complicated now we understand it, there are so many books on PD's which tell us everything about them in text, if we read up on them we Will know what to expect next! with normal people everyone is different and you can't write a book, that tells me something lol.
I think we hope someday they will change, every glimmer of hope we hold onto. We have these week moments and try for something different but it never happens. I think we just have to accept that it is how it is and educate ourselves more so we know or can predict their next move.

[Liza]

There is no reason to state the basic human right of being allowed my own thoughts, my own opinions, the right to be spoken to without abuse, condescension, or other 'attitude' and tone. It's my basic human right so why does it need stating as a preference ?!?!?


Who are you stating this to, yourself or another person?  If it's someone else is it JADEing? 

I'm not stating it to anyone but say that because so often we talk about stating boundaries but what's really under discussion is communicating a preference. To me the boundary is leaving toxic situation, not defining for someone else what toxic is but beyond that even with preferences three are not preferences.

Telling someone 'if continue to yell I'm hanging up' is a boundary (hanging up) but not being yelled at is a basic human right, it's beyond a preference. Telling someone 'I only respond to emails once a week' is a preference with a boundary attached. The number of times one chooses to email is a preference and it's their human right to have the freedom to make that choice.

When we think in terms of standing up for ourselves i think we need think beyond basic human rights as simply restating the right but to have the strength to possess these rights, to feel we have a right to them in the first place because we were raised not only to be unaware they exist but to feel we don't deserve them in the first place when we find out they exist.

For me I don't think its wrong to quietly and with much strength take and possess my rights. I don't need to get in my uPDm face and tell her I have the right to my own opinion. This is something I need to feel from deep within and simply do it.

When I do need to verbalize its when uPDm tells me 'you don't feel that way' and I calmly tell her 'yes and I do and you don't get to tell me how I feel' and walk away.

I get it now. Thank you for the clarification Spring Butterfly. 

[Inurdreams]

Great post Spring Butterfly!  You have managed to put into words feelings I have had for a long time but was unable to pin down.

You are absolutely spot on.  It is our human right.

Thank you!

[fleerahab]

I agree with everything Spring Butterfly  said. I would add that there are some times in common sense you need to put into words exactly what you need.

"I need some space right now." It tells someone that in a situation where they could pursue conversation or not, the better choice is not. Sometimes we have personal preference boundaries that need stating. It would make no sense for me to get angry with NM for sending me texts one after the other when I never told her outright that I was wanting alone time with myself. PD or not, she is still finite (even more so) in her ability to know others' specific needs. Human rights are a given, but some things aren't.

It's like getting mad at a friend for buying you sweets for the holidays when you never told her you were on a diet, or your husband going away on his own for an evening and you getting upset when you didn't tell him you desired to spend time together that night.

[discarded]

To be honest I had terrible boundaries because I used to be afraid of getting much worse abuse if I said no. If I just made them happy that was all I could do. This made me terrible at setting boundaries at work, in relationships. I tolerated so much and feared saying no because of the possibility my no would be received very badly.

I started having anxiety about going to see my family. I just felt on edge. I gave myself time away. I let myself relax. It seems kinda dumb but a part of me told myself my anxiety is just out of control, so I blamed myself, without exploring the element that they often made me feel like I was going crazy on purpose. Telling people no made me realize that I could make space for myself and it felt so much better to recognize that I don't have to give someone the time or the energy if they're likely to mistreat me.