Daughter . . . what we do is never enough

[Adria]

Hi all,

I don't come to this particular platform often on the forum because it can be very triggering for me.  I hope everyone is doing well. 
I think because of my narc family upbringing, I never know when enough is enough when helping people. I always over do until I'm completely wrung out and exhausted.  I've read the boundaries book three times, but, my daughter . . .

We live three hours away from my daughter and her family. She has a loving, supportive husband and three darling little kids.  When they come to visit, it is usually a disaster, so we bought a trailer a half hour away from their house for vacation time for us, and if the kids occasionally want to spend the night, we don't have to worry about our home being destroyed.

Dh and I have gone down for vacation the last couple weekends, having ourselves a blast. Daughter can't seem to stand it that we have finally gotten time for ourselves away from one disaster after another regarding our children over the last three decades, ie dealing with step children, exes, horrifble extended family situations and a son who came down with mental illness who we took care of for ten years.  We are quite frankly exhausted.

Problem,  now that daughter knows we are coming down every weekend for two days, she is planning our trips home with children that I need to take to their doctor which is up by us, so when dh and I are on our way home from a nice weekend, she wants us to take her kids to doctor appointments and then drive half way down to meet the parents to drop them off or keep them for a week until we drive back down to our trailer. 
Daughter even told a complete stranger to us (friend of hers) that lives five hours from us that we would pick her and her kids up if she got scared of the political situations brewing because her husband is in the military and out of town.  This is what dh and I have spent our whole marriage doing. Rescuing everyone! No one ever rescues us or wanted hear when son came down with a serious mental illness.  My daughter is very manipulative and constantly catches me off guard and is always two steps ahead of me.  She constantly acts like we owe her, whether it be, asking me to pick stuff up at the store and not paying me back or whatever else she comes up with.

Is it me? Am I being funny?  It's like dh and I never have peace. Even our counselor said we have never had a chance to have a marriage because we are always putting everyone else's fire out. Dh is still working extremely long hours with travel. The trailer was supposed to give us a break from everything. Thought it would be a great solution to a lot of issues and now their seems to be even more. Help, we feeling like we are drowning.

[notrightinthehead]

I can totally relate. Sounds like you are getting ready to implement what you read three times in the boundary book.
I progress in my healing and get better at saying 'no'  but I have yet to say 'no' to my daughter. So much more difficult with a child, even when one is fully aware of being taken advantage of, or manipulated. I have started to do medium chill and that seems to help a bit.  Babysteps. You are aware of what is happening. Now you will implement minute changes that will eventually to your first "No my darling, I cannot do that." Don't despair. Keep moving.

[Adria]

Thank you NotRightInTheHead for your empathy and encouraging words.  I'm starting tonight.  She called, I didn't answer. I'm always really quick to answer her calls.  I'm going to start backing off and not be quite so available. It is hard, but I'm gonna do it.  I think I will read about the medium chill again as well. 

I hope it goes better for you too.  Geez, ya think they are out of the house and they bring back five more with em.

[hhaw]

Adria:

It seems to me you've started asserting your boundaries and taking control of your life back.  It seems you KNOW how to DO that, but your dd blindsided you.

I invite you to practice a few phrases to respond with... while you think about what you truly want to do... what is BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR DH, instead of reactively DOING what your DD instructs you to do, with you feeling put upon and used.

The frustration I felt was what clued my Therapist into codependent behaviors... and lots of research about it, how it works, and how to undo it.  Learning how to gain emotional distance, release outcome, and RESPOND, rather than REACT with old patterns and behaviors that no longer serve us.

I have to say.... learning how to do that, DOING it.... we're modeling it for others in our lives too.  People around us benefit, bc they SEE it can be done.  They learn how to do it too.

So.... maybe practice responses like....
"I'll get back to you about that..."\
or....
"I have a conflict, but will see what I can do.... I'll get back to you if anything changes."

You don't have to do your dd tells you to do.   You don't have to react and be frustrated either.

You certainly don't HAVE to say NO, straight out.  You can take your time, think about how you'd LIKE to respond when you're calm and know what your ability is.... then get back to her when your head's right. 

You've already started doing things to improve your life.  This will get easier the more you practice, and it IS practicing. 

Before you know it, it will be second nature, then your default setting. 

Remember to breathe..... and don't let your dd push you into responding before you have time to process.

It's time to nurture your marriage as a priority.  Self care goes to the top of your list, perhaps?  I think, YES: )

Good luck... your dd will struggle a bit, but eventually she'll know you won't be pushed around any longer. 

[Adria]

Thank you Hhaw,

So.... maybe practice responses like....
"I'll get back to you about that..."\
or....
"I have a conflict, but will see what I can do.... I'll get back to you if anything changes."

I love these. I really love the second one. I'm sending your post to dh to help him as well.

Dh and I decided since, I already said yes, that we would get grandchild this one time and take him to the doctor and drive him back.
Then daughter called this morning and said, (after dh scheduled time off of work) that she needs to reschedule his appointment for next week.
I was already psyched up for this run, now it is delayed and I have to think about it for another week.
I don't want to do it all. But, since we said we would do it this time, do I still need to do it next week, or can I find a way to bail?
She just seems to keep us on a never ending roller coaster.  We get better on one end, and she comes at us with a new angle.

I told dh, this has nothing to do with child being ill. It is about control and to see how high we will jump.  Daughter has been gracious about helping us with our little vacation home, but I think she uses her help as leverage to make us jump for her. I've never put upon her like that. Never at holidays, or anything, always say, do what you can, if you can't make I understand, etc.  She has told us don't expect her to be available every time we come down. But, that doesn't go both ways.  We don't expect her to be available, and quite frankly don't want her to be.  This was something dh and I did for us. We wanted to be closer to have some fun with the grandkids, but not all the time.  I hope we can navigate this without being sorry we bought this place. Dh is already talking about selling it in six months. Sometime, it seems ya just can't win.

[practical]

You can absolutely say NO to that doctor's visit. You were nice enough to agree the first time around, she moved it without checking whether you would be available the following week. Your DH actually took time off for this and she didn't think it necessary to check with you first, so this is her problem not yours. If she cannot drive her son to that doctor's apointment on that date, she can reschedule again - and again you won't be available.

You are right, she is trying to see how high you jump and she will keep on moving the goal posts. If you take the kid to the doctor, next time it will be something else even more disruptive for you. You have earned the right to have time for each other and just for each other, to not be burdened with child care duties. The position of a grandparent is supposed to be fun, you get to hang out with them, spoil them, maybe babysit them occassionally, but it isn't supposed to be mandatory and work. You have done your work, you raised your family. Yes, it is nice when you can help your kids, but not when you are taken advantage of. None of this sounds like any kind of emergency, so no need for you to jump through hoops. Her volunteering you to pick up a total stranger in case of danger, which also means she has no qualms to send you into danger, shows she either has no clue about boundaries or doesn't care or respect them. Especially the latter isn't even a boundary you should need to verbalize, it is obvious, it is like a natural boundary, you don't order people around or "volunteer" them  .

The recommendations by Hhaw are excellent. Make yourself a list of non-committal statements. If you don't pick up the phone, will she text you? Or would you feel comfortable rather than returning her call, - if you feel you have to at all -, to text her? Texting gives you time to think about your answer, you also cannot get ambushed as easily as you control when you will respond.

As a goal pratice the sentence "We love seeing you and the kids, this weekend is for us only. We'll see you on another trip again." and then roll up the welcome mat and enjoy your weekend with DH. It sounds you and DH really deserve some peaceful time with each other 

For full disclosure and so you don't think I'm some kind of wizz at boundaries, I'm not. I'm still very much a work in progress especially when it comes to family. I'm much better at it than before I came here, when I was a wellworn doormat, still, I have to always check myself. Buying myself time with sentences like Hhaw suggested is one of my key strategies to maintain my boundaries, not only with regard to when I'm asked to do something but also when I'm considering doing something out of my own volition for somebody else. It gives me time to look at my motives, possible consequences and especially whether I'm falling back into old doormat habits.

Seeing the problem is the first and very huge step, and you took it! And no, it is really not you or DH, you are not being funny or difficult. You want something theoretically very simple, time for yourself and DH. In an ideal world your daughter would be happy for you and give you space to have this time, unfortunately it sounds like you need to built a virtual picket fence with boundaries around your weekend home and your time.

Cheering you on! 

[Adria]

Thank you so much, Practical, for your thoughts and advice. I really do appreciate it.  I like what you said about texts. That is a good one!
I so much want peace in my life, but sometimes it seems like it's too much to ask.  I will try using what you and the others have suggested. I feel the ideas will be very helpful in setting up boundaries.  Looking forward to making the changes. And, thank you for saying we are not being funny. Sometimes, it's hard to know.

[Hepatica]

Adria,
I really read/hear your wish for peace in your life. Of course it's not too much to ask. We are meant a life of joy and you've done the hard work of raising your own children. Now it's time to rest and enjoy your grandchildren in joy.

The fact that you've been feeling frustration is an important message. That's your soul/spirit telling you that you need boundaries. And I love the suggestions by hhaw on how to respond. I think it's great that you're not picking up your phone right away when she calls. That's the first step. Next one is using the phrases hhaw suggested when something does not work for you.

I have a feeling that we as parents can continue to model good parenting and good life skills throughout the phases of our lives. Modelling peace and boundary setting to your daughter is ultimately a gift to her.

I think you can back off slowly and gracefully, with no guilt, by helping your daughter when it is right for you and your dh, so there is no resentment to build. If she doesn't handle it well, then that's okay. Any time we set boundaries with our children they can take it badly at first. But it is always a learning lesson for their own good.

[1footouttadefog]

So she rescheduled the appointment after you bent to her needs?

Sounds like it was no longer serving her hidden agenda and she needed to move it.

This is not reasonable for her to assume you are perpetually available.  Let her know you need more notice than that, and she will need to drive kid to Dr due to the appoinment change.

It might be time to move the trailer further from her and closer to fun and relaxation.
My parents made it clear that they would not be our baby sitters  we all accepted the boundary. 

[WinterStar]

Adria,

I'm kinda in the same boat as your daughter. I've got a few kids and a supportive husband, and, frankly, I'm exhausted. The number of doctor's appointments is insane! There's always something I need to do that I don't have time to do. Is it possible your daughter is overwhelmed?

Also, do you think it would help to talk to your daughter directly about your availability? Like, how much notice you need for non emergencies or how much time in a month you think you can do. Maybe say that you feel like you've overcommitted yourself in the past and need to scale back a bit so you don't get overwhelmed. You know better than I if that would help with your daughter.

If your daughter is overwhelmed and/or used to more help from you than she's getting now, she may be a bit put out. She can sense a dynamic shift but may not understand why it's happening. She certainly should be more considerate but maybe because she's used to behaving this way and having you still help out, she thought you were fine with it.

Good for you for having boundaries and not overworking yourself. That's awesome and a great example for your daughter!

[blacksheep7]

Adria,

My heart breaks for you.  I don't have any advice, I just want to give you support.  You have been given advice from the same people who were there for me.   
I can understand that enough is enough.  At this point in life we need to be stress free.  Isn't it what it's all about being a grandparent.

I could understand your pain as I am still living pain from my dd who ignores me emotionally.  I could write and she won't respond...only when it's about her.  Oh gosh, we don't deserve this.

Keep applying your boundaries, it will get easier with time.

Hang in there