My attempt at going NC with parents

Concerned One · August 17, 2020, 06:11:19 PM

It's really my mother. The two brothers are out of the picture and father's soul was destroyed a long time leaving him just an empty shell.

She lays on the guilt pretty heavily so this was always going to be a difficult one.

However, enough research really leaves no doubt in my mind that she is guilty of dereliction of duty (if there is such a thing where parenting is concerned).

Yes they fed me (well), and clothed me and put a roof over my head. But so did the family dog and cat get all these things (save the clothes).

What they neglected was the soul. I had no voice. I had no persona. My opinions didn't matter. I didn't matter. I could not fight. I could not flight. I could not fawn. So I froze. Dissociated. Became a nothing and a nobody. A ghost. For many years. I liked Kafka.

TOday I called. She didn't answer so I called from a number she wouldn't recognize. She answered. I angered. Let it all out. She hung up/discards (the favorite family strategy).

She called back an hour or two later.

Mother: what that was all about. never mind. Let's just forget about it.
Me: no no, Lets not forget about it. Let's discuss this.
Mother: Are you free this week to come and visit?
Me: You destroyed my confidence and self-esteem...
Mother: What you need to remember is that you are (my age) and I am (her age + 3 years).
Me: What's that got to do with anything? It was your job to protect me...you did not do that. And you need to compensate me for the systematic destruction of my confidence and self-esteem...
Mother: Ha ha. I doubt you'll see that happen. What do you want?
Me: you figure it out.
Mother: Write it out on a piece of paper and send it to me.
Me: I'm not going to do that.
I can't make out what she's saying as there is some electronic buzzing going on (could be the doorbell), before she once again hangs up and opts for the discard strategy again.

The discard strategy in the past has been a very powerful strategy. It is also used in dating 'game', a niche I studied a few years back. It is a form of psychological manipulation intended to stir strong feelings in the target. I expect this from a prospective partner but not from a supposed primary caregiver.

To be continued.

nanotech · August 18, 2020, 07:43:17 PM

Welcome to Out of the FOG. It's a safe place to talk about family with personality disorders.
I also had no voice. I can identify. Take care, you are welcome here, just as you are. You have support on here.
I think it's brave of you to confront your mum. They never see it. I'm not sure I could even form those words to my dad ( mum is now passed).
I reckon he would either laugh or scoff, then discard.

The discard is a biggie in my family of origin. Either by phone (UNPDMUM) or by blocking on social media while in the middle of an interchange. ( BPDsister and UNPDBrother) Yes it is a psychological weapon.
Sometimes the discard is snubbing a party, or ignoring a birth in the family.
It's horrible.
They often do the snubbing ones in ways which are deniable. That's gaslighting. They will give you all sorts of reasons why your complaints don't hold any water. That's gaslighting too.
Have a look at the tools section. It will give you a lot of support.
Take care.

Concerned One · August 19, 2020, 05:32:52 AM

Gosh. I've snubbed many a party and wedding. From my perspective I didn't think anybody would be bothered because technically I didn't exist.

Adrianna · August 20, 2020, 06:53:05 AM

I think it's great that you've figured this out and see the dynamic. I too grew up not feeling that I mattered, what I said didn't matter, no one really cared about how I felt, and it was wrong for me to expect to be loved by anyone. I had a roof over my head, food, clothes etc. I felt like a tenant in a boardinghouse. No siblings. I felt I was unworthy of being loved, that I was defective, and it took a long time to see that I wasn't. They just weren't up to the task. For me or for anyone.

The problem is you're looking for validation from her. The nature of a pd is often that they will not take responsibility for their actions, no matter how obvious it is. You likely will not get an apology, ever. I tried this route and it backfired. I was guilted, shamed and blamed for even daring to expose faults in my father. Tears, frustration, anger on my end at just wanting him to acknowledge that he did some damage to me and to apologize. Wasted effort. Actually it made things worse. I no longer expect him to treat me with any decency, kindness or consideration. I only speak to him when really necessary.

Another ploy is the fake apology which my grandmother would use:

Yelling on phone "Oh I'm so sorry Adrianna for upsetting you!!! How about I never call you again if I'm so awful? How would you like that?" Click.

Back when I was in the fog it terribly upset me. I would call her back and apologize for what I now realize was ASKING TO BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING. Later once I was coming Out of the FOG, after this response from her, I'd reply "Good. You should be sorry." And in my head I'd think, great, don't ever call me again. Fine with me.

Regarding the discard, it's a common tactic in the narcissistic abuse cycle.

Love bombing
Devalue
Discard
Hoover

There's a lot of information about it out there and a lot of YouTube channels which explain it well. Romantic relationships are the ones often discussed, as a true narc will have this dating pattern down to a science, but it can be helpful to understand regarding family dynamics as well. There's a trauma bond there, keeping the victim tied to the abuser, at an unconscious level. Many children raised by narcissists end up dating other narcissists as the dynamic is familiar to them, and they had been groomed to think emotional abuse and servitude equals love.

nanotech · August 20, 2020, 07:32:05 AM

Quote from: Concerned One on August 19, 2020, 05:32:52 AM
Gosh. I've snubbed many a party and wedding. From my perspective I didn't think anybody would be bothered because technically I didn't exist.

No, 🤗you haven't snubbed anyone. You made a choice to keep yourself safe. Not going to parties and weddings was a boundary choice for you, NOT a snub.

Guess what? They actually tried to make a grand entrance later, but couldn't find the party!
They then tried to ring the venue, but couldn't find the number! My dad didn't have his mobile phone with him. Yep, they would have required a lift. Disruption, disruption. They love it.
They had their invitations ( did they keep them?) and could have jumped in a taxi, but hey no.
After weeks of saying a Big Fat No several times, beginning with an abusive phonecall which my sister clearly enjoyed, they then wanted my dad to leave my daughters party 🥳 in the middle of all the fun, and go fetch them to it so they could arrive with a fanfare. I seriously think they wanted to try to upstage the birthday girl.

Concerned, I no longer attend family meals. I JUST Don't GO. I say I've other plans that weekend/ day.
There's a huge difference between intentionally snubbing someone, and quiet, calm boundary -making for your own safety and the good of your mental health.

nanotech · August 20, 2020, 07:40:05 AM

Quote from: Adrianna on August 20, 2020, 06:53:05 AM
I think it's great that you've figured this out and see the dynamic. I too grew up not feeling that I mattered, what I said didn't matter, no one really cared about how I felt, and it was wrong for me to expect to be loved by anyone. I had a roof over my head, food, clothes etc. I felt like a tenant in a boardinghouse. No siblings. I felt I was unworthy of being loved, that I was defective, and it took a long time to see that I wasn't. They just weren't up to the task. For me or for anyone.

The problem is you're looking for validation from her. The nature of a pd is often that they will not take responsibility for their actions, no matter how obvious it is. You likely will not get an apology, ever. I tried this route and it backfired. I was guilted, shamed and blamed for even daring to expose faults in my father. Tears, frustration, anger on my end at just wanting him to acknowledge that he did some damage to me and to apologize. Wasted effort. Actually it made things worse. I no longer expect him to treat me with any decency, kindness or consideration. I only speak to him when really necessary.

Another ploy is the fake apology which my grandmother would use:

Yelling on phone "Oh I'm so sorry Adrianna for upsetting you!!! How about I never call you again if I'm so awful? How would you like that?" Click.

Back when I was in the fog it terribly upset me. I would call her back and apologize for what I now realize was ASKING TO BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING. Later once I was coming Out of the FOG, after this response from her, I'd reply "Good. You should be sorry." And in my head I'd think, great, don't ever call me again. Fine with me.

Regarding the discard, it's a common tactic in the narcissistic abuse cycle.

Love bombing
Devalue
Discard
Hoover

There's a lot of information about it out there and a lot of YouTube channels which explain it well. Romantic relationships are the ones often discussed, as a true narc will have this dating pattern down to a science, but it can be helpful to understand regarding family dynamics as well. There's a trauma bond there, keeping the victim tied to the abuser, at an unconscious level. Many children raised by narcissists end up dating other narcissists as the dynamic is familiar to them, and they had been groomed to think emotional abuse and servitude equals love.

This is a great post Adrianna has written and I agree with it all. The phone is a tool often used for abuse. Hanging up was/is a tradition in my family. Then a couple of days would pass and my mum would ring me and speak normally, as if it had never happened. The hoover following the discard.

Concerned One · August 20, 2020, 09:13:45 AM

Thanks guys/gals.

I just want them to leave me alone. I have no expectations of an apology or financial compensation.

The horror of what has happened is starting to sink in and I want nothing more to do with it any more.

Worthy One · August 24, 2020, 08:39:16 AM

My mother used to just talk over me, whenever I tried to voice my feelings. Her voice would grow louder, and she would keep saying my name until I stopped talking. I remember feeling miserable and full of anxiety. I've been no contact for 5 years, and what's helped me is studying narcissistic abuse on YouTube or reading books on the subject. I also make sure I surround myself with these things before holidays, so I'll be ready. Hope this helps. Stay strong! The beauty of no contact, is that without all those negative people telling you what you are, you're able to see the beautiful soul that is the real you. Good luck!

Concerned One · August 24, 2020, 09:57:22 AM

Ok so seven days after her hanging up on me last Monday, she just called me.

I answered.

Her voice was light and breezy as if nothing ever happened and nothing was ever said.

Mother: hello.
Me: hello?
Mother: just checking that you're ok.
Me: yes I'm ok thank you very much.
Mother: are you still working from home?
Me: no I'm working on the office.
Mother: ok. Just checking you're ok.
Me: ....
Mother: we're all ok.
Me: ....
Mother: give us a ring sometime.
Me: ok. Will do.
Mother: bye.
Me: bye.
End conversation.

As NC it was a total fail I know. But I was intrigued as to how that convo would go. I'm actually scared now.

Concerned One · August 24, 2020, 10:27:42 AM

Ps: lately her default response to 'how are you?' would be, 'I'm really not well.' Today it was, 'we're all ok.'

Concerned One · August 24, 2020, 10:53:37 AM

Even though I didn't ask her how she was.

Andeza · August 24, 2020, 11:06:41 AM

Because she's not really listening to you, and how she and the rest are doing is more important to her. At least, that's how it comes across. I'm a bit of a smart ass, so I probably would have shot back with "yeah, I didn't ask" but I do NOT recommend it. It worked in my case because my uBPDm had no idea how to deal with that class of humans that fit the "smart ass" label.

In your case, though, do you want to be no contact? Do you want to give it a try for a bit and see how you feel about it? I've got a checklist of you do and I'll pop it at the bottom. If vlc works for you that's fine too, but I'm definitely seeing the ignoring, rug-sweeping of a personality disordered individual in your post.

Wanted to add, never feel bad about yourself for breaking nc. It's not a cardinal sin or anything. It's not going to undo all your work although it darn well may hurt. A lot.

How to go nc:
Block them on your phone.
Block them in your email.
Block them on social media.
Decide whether you will read, have a SO or friend read for you, or straight up toss pd mail.
If you move, do not give out your new address to anyone that may give it to your pwPD.
Have a line prepared in case pwPD send police or social workers for a welfare check.
Save any previous written communications that reveal mental instability as an insurance policy.

That covers mild pwPDs, and the more extreme ones.

Concerned One · August 24, 2020, 11:28:03 AM

@Andeza - I've been doing vlc for quite a few years now. It's only now that there is no illusion as to where these people stand that nc or extreme vlc I think is required.

Unfortunately they know my new address. And in some lame attempt at getting them off my back I WhatsApp Ed my bro a month ago saying it was me who was the problem and that it was me who was crazy. And called mother and told her too that I had been diagnosed as schizophrenic (to which she responded: 'I thought so.') so I kinda fucked myself there.

She's threatened me with police before when I told her I'd be disappearing to get psychiatric help - clearly me getting better didn't appeal to her.

So yes. This is why I'm a little scared now. These people commit their abuse and call it caring.

Andeza · August 24, 2020, 11:57:13 AM

You're right, they do, and they don't see a darn thing wrong with it either. In their minds they're caring, they're looking after you, for whatever reasons they use as justification. But I'll tell you a secret.

Whatever you've said in the past to them, it doesn't matter. Lots of people here have been threatened with the police, and I think a few even had them show up. Once they see you're all right, you express that your FOO has "issues" and you're keeping your distance and they just went off the deep end, they're usually pretty happy to note it down and carry on with their day. In fact, if your M does call the police, they keep records of that, and after enough false alarms she'll get a warning or citation or something. I'm not sure of the exact protocol, just that its considered wasting resources.'

Point being, you don't have to be afraid. You're an adult. As Woman Interrupted so eloquently puts it, they can't ground you, they can't take away your keys, they can't employ the punishments they would have used in the past. Their most powerful weapons now are the FOG, the fear, obligation, and guilt. And you have the power to deny them those as well.

We're here to help you with your journey, whatever it ends up looking like.

Concerned One · September 10, 2020, 07:53:22 AM

Today I received a WhatsApp message from a distant relative who lives in another country. She said 'hi, long time. Give me a call when you're free.' This immediately got my alarm bells ringing because:

1) it hadn't been a long time. I'd only texted her a month or two ago.
2) she never asks me to call her.

So I called her. As predicted she's asking how my parents are and when I plan to see them. I tell her nothing of what's going on (because I doubt she would believe me if I did) apart from I need time to heal and will be in touch when I'm ready.

My parents never bother staying in touch with this distant cousin of mine so they must be getting desperate.

Concerned One · September 27, 2020, 08:48:23 AM

wednesday 23rd September: receive a call from an area code I do not recognise. I answer with a fake Nigerian accent. Whoever it is hangs up.

I google the area code. It could be my brother's estranged wife. If so they are really bringing the big guns out.

TBC

Concerned One · October 09, 2020, 01:14:21 AM

6th October 2020 was the last caller ID withheld call I received.

I notice they leave no messages. This is probably because to leave a message would seem like begging to them and they cannot bear the fact that they might have to beg me to come back.

In this sense, their vanity is my gain.

nanotech · October 11, 2020, 04:16:35 PM

Quote from: Concerned One on October 09, 2020, 01:14:21 AM
6th October 2020 was the last caller ID withheld call I received.

I notice they leave no messages. This is probably because to leave a message would seem like begging to them and they cannot bear the fact that they might have to beg me to come back.

In this sense, their vanity is my gain.

Mine are like this too. Except they don't even call. I'm meant to do the calling. So now, I just don't. They've never learned to initiate contact, and their entitlement gets in the way of them ever changing.
The result is peace, perfect peace.