ST from DH about visiting PDmil

[Pepin]

DH is giving me the silent treatment about visiting PDmil.  I agreed to the visit if we social distanced outside while doing an activity and he became irate.  He felt I was being insensitive about not wanting to go inside.  I haven't even been in the homes of my close friends to date since the pandemic began.  Seems that DH thinks PDmil is above social protocol despite her being elderly.

I feel that DH is being unfair but maybe I am also being unfair?  He is also taking it out on our teens since they seemed reluctant to tag along.  I'm so tired of PDmil being the center if everything.  And I'm tired of DH and his expectations of us and loyalty to her.

[Pepin]

Well, now he is angry with me and left the house.  I'm left reeling...I don't know what to do.  I feel very bad about what happened and I did apologize but my apology isn't enough.  I know that it is going to be extremely uncomfortable for quite some time now...and I feel sick to my stomach about what I created.  The situation could have been avoided if I had just kept quiet and agreed with him....but it is clear now that he knows that I don't care for PDmil...as do our kids.  I just can't explain it anymore other than to say that she isn't a joy to be around anymore.  She's never liked me that much and has always behaved from a place of cordialness.  I know she is disappointed that I am the wrong race and culture and that I only know English.  I know she is disappointed with me because I am not successful or really anything she can be proud of or boast about.  All I have done is let her have DH when she needs him...and it wasn't enough. 

I'm still reeling from being yelled at and our kids heard everything. 

[Leonor]

Oh Pepin, good for you!

You didn't just say oh yes of course please!

You didn't even say no way Jose are you crazy?

You just paused. Paused for a second, to ask a question. To suggest a boundary. To stand, just for a moment, and consider what you want, or might want, or accept.

That's what's got dh upset. Because he can only do this ridiculous charade with his mom if you and your kids go along. Well, the teens are teens. They don't want to go along with any thing.

But *you*? Pepin? To even take a moment to consider yourself as a fully worthy human being who gets to make her own decisions on how and where and with whom to spend her time?

Of course that's going to freak out dh. Not because he's abusive or domineering. But because he does not have that right with his own mother, and your taking time to decide for yourself just made that crystal clear ... For him. You are doing in that brief moment what he wants desperately but is terrified to do: hear his mom's voice, and not jump to attention.

In short, he's triggered.

It's really hard to be triggered. It's awful to get that first horrible glimpse of the truth about a parent.

But you standing in your own truth is the only way to not abuse yourself and show dh the way. "I see your upset, and I'm sorry. But I don't feel good about these plans."

So dh is in a panic and triggered, and taking it out on you because you are safe and are not going to abuse him (remember, he's very young right now.)
He's going to pull every trick he learned from mom and dad to change you back because then he doesn't feel.so torn up inside.

You didn't do the tearing up. That's on him and his mom. You stay calm and human and in your truth. "When you don't talk to me I feel sad. When you slam the door I feel scared. But these plans don't work for me."

You did it, Pepin. You broke the magic spell of mil is a mean old witch who casts spells on us to make us dance around to whatever nonsense she's singing today.

It wasn't violent. Or mean. Or cruel. Or condescending. It was quite reasonable and human and kind.

That's what it is. That's coming Out of the FOG. It's Alice saying, wait, I'm fine. It's y'all are messed UP!

Oh, pooh!

You keep on being you from this reasonable and human and kind place.

You're a great you.

[BettyGray]

Hi Pepin,

It’s exhausting isn’t it? The pandemic surely has brought out people’s true colors. It’s unfathomable to me that anybody thinks it’s ok to be at a gathering without wearing a mask, especially inside. Why any elderly person wouldn’t take proper precautions just  defies all logic. You have every right to turn down the invite - jeez, there are even articles written on why it’s ok to say no. Your husband has no right to ask you to put your health at risk (or your kids’ health) and then get mad when you do the right thing to protect them.

Well, now he is angry with me and left the house.  I’m left reeling...I don’t know what to do.  I feel very bad about what happened and I did apologize but my apology isn’t enough.  I know that it is going to be extremely uncomfortable for quite some time now...and I feel sick to my stomach about what I created.  The situation could have been avoided if I had just kept quiet and agreed with him....but it is clear now that he knows that I don’t care for PDmil...as do our kids. 

It saddens me that you think you created the situation and wish you had kept quiet. This is the “go along to get along” mindset. It seems harmless - avoiding confrontation, peace at all costs, cordiality. As long as we keep things on the surface and feel we are supporting our spouses how harmful can it possibly be?

A lot, as it turns out. Until something snapped in me and I just couldn’t play the game anymore, I had no idea it was affecting me in deep ways . Death by a thousand cuts. I was not being true to my beliefs, values, gut instincts, and was also getting nothing positive from faking it. The amount of energy put into trying to make everyone happy and keep peace at all costs is a waste in the long run. Because it’s draining you, even if you can’t detect it. The slow drip, drip, drip of going against what you need for in service of what they want eventually wears down your self esteem and makes you fearful to rock the boat.  Peace at any cost is not worth sacrificing your mental health.

Leonor is right. Your husband has the obligation and most likely resents not being able to say no. But even though he may not know it or feel safe saying no, he is still a grown man who has a right to put himself and his family first. MILs like his never really accept or get over the  fact that they’re no longer #1 in their son’s life, so they sneakily find ways to needle and manipulate through FOG. And when our DHs take moms side and not ours, that should anger us. Not a good choice by him.

Proud of you though for standing your ground. I know from your past posts that this woman has been a thorn in your side FOREVER. Each step you have taken to distance yourself from her toxicity has been taking her power away. NPDs cannot stand being beaten at their own game. As you stand firmly, you will gain that power back over time and she will no longer be a threat. She will just appear a weak, small, sad old woman whose depths of unhappiness have nothing to do with you. Let her deal with her own chaos. I just wish your DH would stop letting her steal his power.

[Medowynd]

I suggest that you ignore your husband and pursue whatever your plans are for the day. I decided many many years ago, that I would not be intimidated by the silent treatment.  It started with my mother and I have encountered it through the years.  My current husband specialized in the silent treatment until he realized that I didn't give two cents for his tantrums.  I would pack up my girls and do the activities that we planned. I spoke to them in a normal tone of voice and made absolutely no effort to include the pouter in the conversation.  You want to pout, you want silent treatment, you got it.  I will admit that I am no empath and refuse to put up with this malarkey.  I have had ruined vacations and special occasions, until when local I take my own car.  When on a vacation, I leave the pouter behind when we plan an activity or a meal out.

Let your husband storm about, ignore him and continue on with your plans.  When the pouting and silent treatment no longer is effective, it is amazing how they learn to drop that behavior.  There is still an occasional silent treatment at my house, but my girls are grown and I just leave or go to my room and close the door. 

[BettyGray]

Medowynd - that is solid advice. It took me awhile to get to the point where I could separate myself from DH's moods. I believed for a long time that I could help him if he would just let me. So I stuck around and let his moods trigger and effect me. When they can't find a way to deal with their emotions in their own, they can sometimes project them onto us. We empaths absorb all the pain for them, then end up feeling horrible and helpless.

One day I just realized I could ignore the sulking, do my own thing, and let him deal with his mess by himself. And then I did it again. Even if I just left the room, went for a walk, or wasn't here when he got home it helped me shield myself from his bad feelings & negatory. I had finally found a technique that worked. It changed the dynamic in our marriage. As soon as they learn they can't create chaos at will or dump on us, we get stronger and they (hopefully) get the message and treat us with more respect.

People in pain want attention. Some want to wallow and take their pain out on others so they don't have to face it themselves. Best way of dealing with it is to take care of ourselves first and no react or allow ourselves get sucked in.

Oh, and yes, I have had many, many birthdays ruined by his grumpiness and drama. I think some folks don't like us being the center of attention, so they (perhaps) unconsciously sabotage OUR day. No longer - I would rather spend time alone!

[Lauren17]

Pepin,

I recently had a similar episode with a MIL visit. I said we could meet for dinner only if we were to eat outside.  I offered several options for places to eat including restaurants halfway between, picnics and our back yard.
H decided on one restaurant that is almost 2 hours away from us but only 5 minutes for MIL. He waited until the last minute to make a reservation on a Saturday evening. The place was full. I reiterated other options. But, no his choice was the only acceptable one.  He offered to come alone to meet her and she said not to bother.
At first, I had that terrible guilty feeling. But I stopped and thought. I offered many options that would work for all parties. I'm not responsible for H and MIL refusing all of them. And I let the feelings go.
From what you've posted, you did the same. You considered MIL and H wishes, your own desires for safety and offered a reasonable solution. You're not to blame if that solution wasn't accepted.

[Hilltop]

Pepin I am thinking your DH is upset because he is triggered.  He is in a position of doing what you want or doing what his mother wants.  Your MIL is going to insist on being inside if she knows you want to be outside.  Your DH cannot say no to his mother, it probably makes him feel sick inside to even think about saying no to her because of the way she has trained him. So DH is in the middle, placed there by his mother.

Its easier for your DH to be angry with you and get you to change your mind than his mother.  Its not right, you have done nothing wrong, you are in the right but DH still can't stand up to his mother.

Do not feel bad, you didn't cause this, you asked for something that is beneficial for his mother and her health.  As Lauren17 says you offered up a good solution, if they reject that, that is on them, not you.

It sounds like a difficult situation.

[Leonor]

Hi, yes, I totally agree, and I would add that dh is actually not in the middle of anything ... He is not in a position to do or what Pepin wants or what MIL wants *if he were to empower himself* to think about what *he* wants.

Then the situation would be a coming together of adults to decide where to gather as opposed to this tug of war.

I think it would be interesting to actually ask dh what he wants to do
He probably doesn't even know because he's been trained to not be aware of his own feelings when it comes to mil.

[Pepin]

Hi, yes, I totally agree, and I would add that dh is actually not in the middle of anything ... He is not in a position to do or what Pepin wants or what MIL wants *if he were to empower himself* to think about what *he* wants.

Then the situation would be a coming together of adults to decide where to gather as opposed to this tug of war.

I think it would be interesting to actually ask dh what he wants to do
He probably doesn't even know because he's been trained to not be aware of his own feelings when it comes to mil.

Yes, yes and yes.  DH hasn't given himself the freedom to decide what he wants to do because he has been trained.  In fact, just yesterday, he went to PDmil's house to make a repair for her rather than her picking up the phone and hiring a plumber to do it.  While she paid for the parts, DH's labor was of course free.  Anyone else in this situation would pick up the phone and make a call....but PDmil wants to save the money, see her son and have an excuse to pass this saved money on after she passes.  The logic in that is something I cannot understand: why wouldn't you pay someone to fix something for you and then just spend time carefree time hanging with your son instead?  Why must he always be tasked with doing something as a way of interacting?  Their relationship is nothing more than a series of transactions.  I hate seeing him be used like this all because she wants to save money.

I know DH doesn't want to go BUT he doesn't want to listen to the whining from her....and of course the "whoas me" lines from her either.  To appease her, he gets stuff done -- mostly.  That is what everyone has been trained to do -- especially DH because he is the favorite and highly reliable.

[Leonor]

Hi Pepin,

Yes I do get that, my dh is the golden child too.

It's infuriating to observe, because that role is so horribly, corrosively abusive: to *use* your own child to your own manipulative ends.

And heartbreaking, because it's so sad to see a loved one try so hard to make his abuser finally "get it" and love him for who he is after all he's done for the abuser.

All you can do Pepin is stay in your healing self. What if you actually ask your dh what he would like to do? And if he starts with the whole "but mom will but you don't but I can't" to just stay with him in that moment, "I totally get that it's difficult, but just out of curiosity, what would you like to do?" That might be a really interesting conversation!