Sexual abuse - weird sexual behaviour

[Triniity]

Hi,
here are two things I don't know if I can or should "work on".
I was quite unlucky healthwise the last couple of years. I had multiple disc slips in my back, requiring multiple spine surgery, until I got infected with a hospital bug, had a sepsis and an osteomyelitis of 8 spine bones. They had to do surgery for stabilization and to remove the inflamed infected material (surgery took 14 hours  ) that was last year august. Since than I am fighting myself back into life.
I have chronic pain, be still not able to walk unassisted and am basically not back to normal. We have four kids, two have adhd, one has a panic disorder.


Trigger warning (sexual abuse)



































Now the problem. My husband forced me to have sex while under medication (pain and sleep medication, plus medication for the nerve repair that make one drowsy) - I did not understand what happened and could not vocalize anything or move away or something like that. first time I thought I had a nightmare, but I was bleeding from my anus afterwards. Plus it happened again, I was slightly more awake to realize it was indeed happening.
We, as a couple, never had anal sex. I would have not agreed to it. ever. (sexual abuse in my childhood) but I guess it was the easiest way for him... i don't know. Three kids were in the room, two in our bed, one on his own mattress. (I would not agree to sex while the kids are in the room)

I told my husband what he had done to me, and he said he was sorry, he never realised that I was not awake and that i did not want it. (which is weird...would you have sex with someone who does not move at all and doesn't speak? I could not move behind it, though, at least not fast. But I worked on it, trying to accept that it was some kind of accident.

And now he tried it again. Since the first time a couple of month have past, and I am weaned from a lot of the medication (but still taking some) - this time I was awake enough to stop him. But - I don't know how to react now. We usually don't sleep in one bed, due to the kids and the weird sleeping pattern of my husband. So he was their on "visitation" for a back rub, that was necessary or at least helping my severe backpain. - Who tries to force himself on someone if he knows for sure and totally clear that she has severe backpain at this moment? Can you claim that you love such a person?
If I try to talk to him he tells me he does not get the sex he needs, so "suck it up" basically. I am not happy with this response, obviously.

If I would be healthy and able to just take the kids I would have moved or thrown him out long ago. 'But I am really, really afraid that I cannot cope without him. Especially since I have a autoimmune disease as well (lucky me) - causing fever spells which kind of knock me out. My kids are 14, 12, 8 and 6, all going to school now.
I feel I cannot talk to anybody in the "real world" - because I would be afraid that someone takes my kids away. It's not that my husband is helping anyway, but I am so afraid. We don't live in the u.s., and we do have a lot of laws and things to keep woman and kids save, I just don't know if I could ever cope like in a shelter or anything.

I told him to leave. We have a big house with a little flat, so he could live there. at least for the beginning. But he does not accept the separation, he would always come into the house, doing stuff, getting stuff, talking to the kids or whatevre. If I would say something like: please stay outside! - he would get angry and loud and would frighten the kids and me. And since I could not make him leave anyway, I just let it go. But I don't think I can live like that anymore.

Help?

Plus: My 8 year old daughter came to me after having a bath with her brother. Her father was supervising them. She told me, that Daddy was watching weird videos, with people with weird things between their legs and jumping onto each other. She never saw anything like it. - So I guess we are talking porn here. I told my husband how NOT acceptable anything like this is. - DD is quite traumatized from the videos, thinking about it and stuff. And she is the one with the anxiousness anyway.
I am not sure how to cope with this. I don't actually think that there is a risk of childabuse. I don't think that my husband has any sexual interest in young girls, at least he never showed it. He laughs about these "young goose" if there are any on tv or in the park or anywhere. But still - can I be sure? Is there a way to find out?
How can I be sure does he never ever wathces porn with the kids around? Can I ? Is it already an offense to do this? I am frightened to talk to "our" professionals, again, for fear that they would take the kids or anything. on the other side I obviously don't want any harm happening to them.
I don't know what to do, and am like a deer in the light, unable to move or to do anything.
If you have any ideas, please share!

[1footouttadefog]

Sexual abuse against your children has already taken place.  You have been sexually assaulted in front of your own children.

He is objectifying both you and the kids and has seemingly no sexual boundaries, i would be very afraid for you all.

Any sexual activity or assault that takes place in the presence of children is involving those children. 

Watching sexually gratifying material in the presence if children is sexual abuse.

Watching porn while bathing the children is abuse.

Making an 8 year old be naked in the tub with her brother is likely abusive to the kids. Most want privacy at that age and need gender separation especially from family members. 

I am sorry you are having so many health challenges, I hope you heal so you ca  protect your children from worse.  I would feel safer in a tent without your husband if it were me. 

[notrightinthehead]

You might find it helpful to start documenting all the abuse, dates, times, facts.
It seems that you think it best to stay in this situation for the time being - can you investigate your options? Get information about the financial and legal options you have, get support from family, friends, support groups?
It must have been very difficult for you to open up about what happened to you. You are very brave! Be assured that here is a safe place for you to do so. Breaking the silence is such a brave step and it makes what happened more real. Is there anyone in real life, where you could open up safely too? A group for abused women for example? 
Please read up what to do in an emergency. And stay around!

[Triniity]

Thank you for your response.

Making an 8 year old be naked in the tub with her brother is likely abusive to the kids. Most want privacy at that age and need gender separation especially from family members. 

They still want to bath together, they spend the whole summer in the pool together. I would not allow it, if they would not both be happy in the bath, playing with their boats. I still rememer quite vividly how I felt when my boundaries where overstepped, I would not allow something like that.

Thank you for stating this so clearly. Sometimes I feel like going mad, because I don't know anymore what is normal and what not.

You might find it helpful to start documenting all the abuse, dates, times, facts.

I am trying to, I have a special diary app.

I am sorry you are having so many health challenges, I hope you heal so you ca  protect your children from worse.  I would feel safer in a tent without your husband if it were me. 

I would probably, too. Problem is, I would not be albe to move. I am really working hard at my recovery, and everybody who is involved medicalwise tells me I am doing really good. ('The other day the orthopedic surgeon told me that this healing process is kind of a miracle, it could have really ended differently.

I don't know how I got in this position? and to the outside world he is the hero who is looking after his sick wife, even though in reality he does not help much at all, and i cannot trust him, because he constantly forgets things or "falls asleep" -
But I do need to keep the kids safe. At the moment I need them to be safe without getting him too mad.

(Is there actually something like a journal option here on this site?)

It must have been very difficult for you to open up about what happened to you. You are very brave! Be assured that here is a safe place for you to do so. Breaking the silence is such a brave step and it makes what happened more real. Is there anyone in real life, where you could open up safely too?

I don't think there is anyone. But I don't give up hope.

We had a housecleaner for a couple of month, from the insurance company, because I was still in bed most of the time. And she told me that she thinks my husband is really rough and  mean towards me. I did not even realize what she meant, because it gets so normal so fast.

Is there something like a "get out safely" checklist? (i love checklists...)

thank you for your help y'all, I would be so lost without you...

[Triniity]

and what i did not really mention, I suffered a ptsd in/after the hospital stay. I was helpless and in severe pain (like i could not move even to turn around a couple of centimeters. If the call button was five centimeters from my hand I could not reach it) The doctors told me it was all in my head, even though i had clearly a woundinfection and sepsis. When they did an mri they could see how severly my bones were infected and inflammed, not at all able to support any weight at all.
Suddenly it was not so psychosomatic anymore...

the things my husband did made this worse. Now I am really tense when I get physiotherapy and afraid at night. The kids sleep around me like puppies, and I am afraid that they feel the need to keep me safe, which i totally don't think is their duty at all.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I'm so sorry for what you're going through, Trinity.    I hope your "miracle healing" continues.

It sounds like you are hoping your PDh is not sexually interested in kids, but you're not sure:  "I don't think that my husband has any sexual interest in young girls, at least he never showed it. He laughs about these "young goose" if there are any on tv or in the park"

I do know from personal experience that such an adult can say many things to make others believe he is not a predator -- even railing to others about how pedophiles should be shot, etc., when they themselves are abusing.  So I wouldn't feel reassured by his way of talking.

Also, showing porn around children can be a first step in sexually grooming a child,  getting them used to the images.  It's enough of a red flag that he was watching this stuff while supervising the kids in the bath . . . but he also didn't shield them from seeing it.

One Q I've found useful for situations when you feel stuck relying on one person:   What would you do if that person suddenly disappeared, dropped dead, etc.?  Really think that through.  If he were suddenly completely unavailable, what would be your next step -- and then consider that now to see if it's a possibility.

You found us.  (So glad you did.)  What about online help agencies for abuse & family crises?  Perhaps you could chat with someone trained in this area without having to reveal any of your personal information, or give a pseudonym.  This kind of behavior tends to escalate, so I hope you find help soon!

[Fulcrum29SMT]

Another worrying factor is that, around the kids, he felt the need to watch porn and must have enjoyed it, or he wouldn't have done it. So, having kids around and being aroused by porn aren't mutually exclusive, while they should be. That's definitely a dangerous situation for you and your children, especially since he proved he's not aware of these things called "boundaries" and "consentment".

[bloomie]

Triniity - I want to support you as best I can with some resources and even a checklist! Before I pop those things in here, I want to say that without question the things that you describe happening are terribly wrong on every level. The best thing I can think of for you to do is to talk in person with a domestic violence (DV) counselor and get some clear insights and in real life support as you find a way to get yourself and your children to safety.

I say this gently... this is far more than weird sexual behavior on your H's part toward you, around you, around your children. This is creating an atmosphere of risk for all of you. The only way I can see you knowing how to best protect your kids is to know your options and that is what a trained professional DV counselor can help you with as they connect you with resources and help in your area.

Emergency links: https://outofthefog.website/emergency/
There are international links for help with Domestic Violence issues in the above link

Leaving check list: https://outofthefog.website/separating-divorcing/2015/12/5/leaving-checklist
Put Children First: https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/put-children-first
Sexual Coercion: https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion

We can and will support you as you find the safe and best way forward and at the same time there is a limit to what an online forum can offer you. Please take advantage of whatever services are available in your local area and let us know how you and your kids are doing when you are able as this sounds like a potentially dangerous situation and decisions are best made with those who know best how and when to make a move.