Problems with abusive spiritual community

[MGabriel]

Hi to all,

My spiritual community has been very abusive to me over a period of many years. Decades, to be honest.

Early in the 2010's I met a spiritual leader who tried very hard to be kind to me. He said that he understood what I had been through, and felt that it was wrong.

Over the years, he has been there for me to the degree that he can. He has taken the time to listen to me and try to help me get through difficult periods. That said, I no longer talk to him that often, nor do I see him as I now live in another state. But we have kept in touch and he has helped me via the phone.

A few months back, he told me that two weeks after he met me, all those years ago, he "learned" that I had been abused by a spiritual leader (which at the time was a very well known case.) He said that he thinks this "information" was spread to people, and it lead to the way I was treated (which was bad). He said that he would not want to help someone like that either (his community restricts the level of help that he can give me). He said that this abuse victim, "got that person (another spiritual leader) in trouble."

I told him this information is a clear lie, especially as I never even knew the spiritual leader who was involved, but at first it seemed like he did not believe my denial. I insisted, however, and he finally seemed to believe me. He gave me some advice on how to handle it.

We talked sometime later about handling this, and in the course of giving me advice, I asked if he thought clearing this would change the way I am treated, and he said no. This left me so hurt that I could barely speak, and was fighting not to cry. Why go through all the stress of trying to clear my name and dealing with these people who probably will not care and leave me feeling worse if it will change nothing?

I immediately must have gone into some sort of PTSD, remembering all the horrible treatment I had received, and tried to share with him how I was feeling - especially now that on top of it, I was dealing with the reality that all these years people had thought I was an abuse victim by a spiritual leader but refused to help me BECAUSE they thought I was one such abuse victim!

Instead, he got curt with me and said, "let's not go over the same thing that we have gone over many times before."

At this point, I could hardly talk, because talking would have resulted in crying, and I think I could hear him saying, "hello?" but I could not respond right away for fear I would sound like a bawling nuisance and not be able to hold in the tears. So a little bit of silence ensued and then he said he was going and I managed to get out the words, "ok" or something like that.

This was around the middle of July. Over two months ago. We did not talk since.

A number of days ago I was going through a particularly difficult time, and was not sure how I could make it, so I tried to get up the courage to lead into telling him something that I do not think he entirely understands the full extent of. Our short text conversation went like this:

Me: "Why do I have to keep going through sexual abuse every day of my life?"

Him: "Very sorry for you. Your____ (identifying word here)____?"

I actually felt worse by his response, because given the gravity of what I was trying to share, "very sorry for you" seemed terribly curt.

I tried to call him, but he did not answer. Usually, he would call me back later, or send a text asking when is a good time to talk, but this time nothing came through.

Nothing.

So that evening I tried to send a text explaining the level of hurt that I was going through, because I felt like the gravity of my situation was not getting accross:

"More than anything, the coldness and indifference of so many who could easily help me (for the record, the community claims to be able to 'easily' heal people) but refuse to, thereby only worsening my problems and leaving me to feel consistently abandoned on a cliff-edge of despair, while professing how much people matter and are loved. I face this cliff edge so often. It has become a fixture of my life, and every day that passes I face the endless coldness of a spiritual community that has hurt me so much. They never come to help, and they never will. That hurts more than anything else. The fact that I do not matter enough to heal and help find a normal life."

He never replied. Not a word.

His reaction was incredibly hurtful to me. It seems to me like something was wrong with it, and that it is not how someone should respond to such a serious situation.

That is why I wanted to ask, do others think that his response is strange and hurtful given the context, and how should I reply in return?

I want to explain to him how hurtful his kind of curt reactions have been lately, but I do not know how. I just feel confused that he has become so suddenly cold and distant when I am personally having all of these extra things placed on me - realizing so many rumors have been circulating, and the fact that people thought I was an abuse victim of a spiritual leader but actually denied me help BECAUSE they thought I was an abuse victim of a spiritual leader. I also do not understand why it took him all these years to tell me this, but stayed silent about it for so long.

I appreciate all of your thoughts! Thank you so much for your time and help. 

[Starboard Song]

He never replied. Not a word.

His reaction was incredibly hurtful to me. It seems to me like something was wrong with it, and that it is not how someone should respond to such a serious situation.

That is why I wanted to ask, do others think that his response is strange and hurtful given the context, and how should I reply in return?

There is a lot strange going on.

I emailed someone yesterday regarding a mistake that was made announcing a death: they called me immediately. Of course they did. Texting back, even, seems beneath the standards I expect of a minister. I would have picked up the phone and called you.

You asked this leader, "Why do I have to keep going through sexual abuse every day of my life?" If you are going through sexual abuse every day, please take immediate steps to seek help and protection. Promise yourself that it ends today: you are too strong and wonderful and important. There are Emergency Resources that can help.

If you are not enduring frequent sexual abuse, but are having to live with memories of it and living in an unsupportive community, please know their behavior is not normal and you deserve better. Far better.

I do not hear that there are any personality disorders involved, so our community may not have the best answers for you. But some of the tactics we use to manage a disordered person also provide strength with other challenging social contexts. So check out the Toolbox.

But make a change. Promise yourself.

So much good strength to you.

[MGabriel]

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful reply. 

Your response has helped me to not feel like I am wrong in thinking that the responses I received were inappropriate.

How do I explain this though to the person involved? How do I get across that their responses are hurtful and seem very cold given the situation?

Thank you.

[Starboard Song]

Gabriel,

This is so very hard and personal. SO my approach may not be best for you.

I see two things going on: one is that you want your minister and maybe others to understand that you feel hurt by their behavior; the other is that you are still in need of positive and helpful feedback. You still need support. If, starting now, your minister can help you move forward, that may go a very long way towards healing the secondary feelings of hurt that you are processing.

From what you've shared, you want support and maybe even protection. You texted your minister to ask "why do I have to keep going through sexual abuse every day of my life?" I want to answer that question for you first. There is no why: you ought not go through sexual abuse. If that is ongoing at this time, you should take immediate steps to safely end that experience.

You may also need someone to provide you emotional comfort and moral strength as you end this abuse, or as you heal from it. I encourage you to ask your minister for a one-on-one meeting. In your discussion, I think  the minister needs to understand exactly what behaviors you are trying to address. And I think you need to provide the minister an understanding of what you need: I need, I feel, I must.

I don't want to propose or encourage a schism between you and your religious community. I do want you to feel empowered. If your minister sees nothing wrong with ongoing abuse, he is deeply mistaken. If your minister tells you to just let go of old injuries, I'd encourage you to return to those "I  statements," and -- if he is obdurate -- turn elsewhere soon for the moral support you deserve.

If you are young, and being abused currently by an older person, please understand that outside of your community this is flatly rejected and unacceptable behavior. If you are older, please know this is no stigma to having been victimized, though your feelings of trepidation are not unreasonable.

Please consider a role-playing game. A person just like yourself has come to you, scared. They confide in you  as you might to your minister. They tell you they need all the things you might tell to your minister. They are pleading, and they get quiet. Look at you. Expecting, and waiting. What would you tell that person? What do they deserve? How can they get it? What next step will make that person happier and safer, however hard it might be?

Those are the words I want you to hear.

Good luck. Be good. Be ever so strong.

[MGabriel]

Gabriel,

This is so very hard and personal. SO my approach may not be best for you.

I see two things going on: one is that you want your minister and maybe others to understand that you feel hurt by their behavior; the other is that you are still in need of positive and helpful feedback. You still need support. If, starting now, your minister can help you move forward, that may go a very long way towards healing the secondary feelings of hurt that you are processing.

From what you've shared, you want support and maybe even protection. You texted your minister to ask "why do I have to keep going through sexual abuse every day of my life?" I want to answer that question for you first. There is no why: you ought not go through sexual abuse. If that is ongoing at this time, you should take immediate steps to safely end that experience.

You may also need someone to provide you emotional comfort and moral strength as you end this abuse, or as you heal from it. I encourage you to ask your minister for a one-on-one meeting. In your discussion, I think  the minister needs to understand exactly what behaviors you are trying to address. And I think you need to provide the minister an understanding of what you need: I need, I feel, I must.

I don't want to propose or encourage a schism between you and your religious community. I do want you to feel empowered. If your minister sees nothing wrong with ongoing abuse, he is deeply mistaken. If your minister tells you to just let go of old injuries, I'd encourage you to return to those "I  statements," and -- if he is obdurate -- turn elsewhere soon for the moral support you deserve.

If you are young, and being abused currently by an older person, please understand that outside of your community this is flatly rejected and unacceptable behavior. If you are older, please know this is no stigma to having been victimized, though your feelings of trepidation are not unreasonable.

Please consider a role-playing game. A person just like yourself has come to you, scared. They confide in you  as you might to your minister. They tell you they need all the things you might tell to your minister. They are pleading, and they get quiet. Look at you. Expecting, and waiting. What would you tell that person? What do they deserve? How can they get it? What next step will make that person happier and safer, however hard it might be?

Those are the words I want you to hear.

Good luck. Be good. Be ever so strong.

Thank you very much for your reply.

I apologize that I did not say thank you sooner, because I really am grateful that you took the time to respond and say what you did. It is very nice to know that there are thoughtful, helpful people out there. So, thank you - even if it is a belated thank you!

I often thought that part of my problem was that I did what you suggested; which was to hope that people would respond as how I imagined that they could, or how I would like them to. They usually seem not to. I have often wondered why that is, and thought to myself, "if it was me on the other end, I would hope that I would handle it like this.....(example here).....so why can't they do the same?" I finally came to the conclusion that most people are just really lacking in the ability to empathize and truly care. (Not that I am some stellar example of that myself though! Just that they often seem to do or say things that seem so completely lacking in empathy that it just completely puzzles me where their minds [hearts?] are.)

In fact, the person that I was referring to in my original post has told me in the past that that is exactly my problem; that I want people to respond a certain way, and that when they do not, I get hurt. I thought it was ok to want people to respond charitably and normal to be hurt when they do not, although not ideal.

It seems to me that many spiritual communities suffer from a sort of "collective personality disorder." What I mean by this is that while there may be nice people there, and I do NOT in any way mean to discredit that (it is very important to be kind!) niceness is not the same as true empathy, compassion and caring for those who are suffering.

Nice people can easily become stonewallers, re-victimizers, and even abusers themselves the moment that they come into contact with someone who is suffering and they choose to turn their back, often placing concern for their groups reputation over the care of others.

In this sense, I think that many, many, many spiritual communities have a sort of deep, underlying "collective personality disorder" that they are not aware of, and it comes out when things are not the ordinary niceties of the day.

It is rare to find truly empathetic, compassionate people in life no matter where you are though, spiritual group or not, as this failing seems to be apart of the underlying "collective personality disorder" of humanity. Like the old saying goes, if you have one true friend in life, you are very blessed. I think that holds true.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond. I really do appreciate it, even though I was slow to reply. I wish you the best!

[Starboard Song]

Nice people can easily become stonewallers, re-victimizers, and even abusers themselves the moment that they come into contact with someone who is suffering and they choose to turn their back, often placing concern for their groups reputation over the care of others.

In this sense, I think that many, many, many spiritual communities have a sort of deep, underlying "collective personality disorder" that they are not aware of, and it comes out when things are not the ordinary niceties of the day.

I hope you feel you have made progress. You are exploring very deep concepts. And I get what you are doing here: saying that even -- maybe especially -- "nice" communities can fail us at the most critical moments. True enough.

As you do this exploration, I'd encourage you to think carefully about why we use a word like "personality disorder." It indicates a pathology, not the common human experience, nor any common foible. In that sense, the real one, no spiritual community has a collective personality disorder. They may provide you less of what you need, as a group. They may sometimes or often let you down. Like your neighbor might. Or your parents. Or your spouse. Or your best friend. In that sense, everyone on earth and every subset could be said to have a collective problem of sort. I'd avoid talk of collective disorders. In any such group there are lovely, decent people who do not turn a blind eye to abuse.


It is critical that you find the the support and protection you need. I encourage you to be pragmatic: are you consistently getting it within this crowd? If not, find the support and protection you need. You do not have to abandon your faith to do so.

[Penny Lane]

I agree with Starboard that this is a time to be pragmatic. These people are not meeting your needs for a spiritual community. They will probably not change. Is it worth it to you to stay, knowing that the situation will not get any better? Or would your life be better away from them?

I think I hear what you're saying about religious groups with sort of collective personality disorders.

The reality is that anywhere there is power, there is potential for abuse of power. Religious leaders have incredible power, emotionally, over their community. Many leaders use this well, they encourage kindness and love between their followers. But certainly, like anywhere else with power, there are those who don't use it well. And because of the unique nature of religion, being in such a community with a toxic leader can be very damaging.

This might be "many" religious communities, I don't know. I don't think it's most. I think there are lots and lots of really great helpful religious groups. If you feel like you can get something out of religion, but this group is not right for you, you don't have to give up! If you feel like organized religion isn't for you, that you've had too bad of an experience or that you simply don't get out of it what you put into it, then that's OK too. I hope you can find a situation where you can get what you need, without having to put up with people who are toxic or damaging to you in these really serious ways.

[bloomie]

Hi MGabriel - my heart goes out to you as you grapple with how to move forward after years of what sounds like spiritual abuse and osteracization from a group that you believed would support and love you. A group of people you thought held common beliefs and lived by loving principles. A group of people (and one person in particular) you believed would help you when you are hurting and that is important in your life. How incredibly hard! I am so sorry.

I only have a snap shot of the situation and cannot possibly know all of the context of what you have been dealing with, but it is a concern if a member of a faith based community is constrained to help another, or if members are encouraged to ostracize someone who they believe has been abused within their community.

Having experienced spiritual abuse myself and having been ostracized by a group of people I believed were my family of choice when I spoke up about very serious and inappropriate responses to abuse that came to light within that community, I can say that the very best help I received was from an advocate and therapist who could offer unhindered and unbiased support and from resources from experts in the area of spiritual abuse.

I could not find healing and hope within that particular group of people. I learned very painfully that the system was not healthy enough to appropriately handle abuse in their midst, and in fact by rug sweeping and covering up they put other vulnerable people at risk. That realization was intolerable for me.

When we experience this type of abuse and see the malignancy it can reveal in a community of people we love it is devastating. The need to be heard and believed and vindicated is strong and I certainly understand the angst of having been wrongly accused or characterized to others. The revelation that help is withheld because others believe you had experienced abuse from this particular leader has to be a terribly confusing and gut wrenching.

It is difficult to trust and believe anyone going forward and this kind of abuse can damage the connection to our best hope of healing and restoration - our connection to God. It is a terrible wrong and I admire you for pushing through and finding the help you need to heal.

I gently suggest redirecting your energies away from this man who has stopped responding, away from this community that has been harmful for you and toward a few trusted sources of support.

A truly great resource I encourage you to explore is found here: https://www.nacr.org/?s=spiritual+abuse

Trusting you will be able to lay down what you don't understand, cannot change, and have not deserved and that you will find rest and renewal as you build a support system for yourself that is reliable and trustworthy!

Much good strength to you!