In a slump and can't tell if I'm being hoovered

[DistanceNotDefense]

Hello all you lovely Out of the Foggers  Been a while since I posted last, been checking up on posts here, and been feeling guilty I haven't offered my own support while continuing to glean such good wisdom from here on the regular... I need to get back into the healthy rhythm of both seeking and offering support equally....

My younger enabling sibling has reached out to tell me they're thinking of me and hoping I'm doing well. At this recent stage of things I have not been doing well. Dealing with intense exhaustion from chronic illness and her message has just thrown me off on top of it all.

One could do all the labor of reading my posts and my history but I'll save you that a little. Me and this sibling were incredibly close but it all came crashing down when I caught wind that my uNPD sibling got her hooks in her. I think (I don't have proof, or confirmation, only strong gut feelings) that this enabler sib was convinced by PD sib that I use her and that I'm lying to her about my experiences and childhood abuse, and that I've used her like a therapist. Also likely convinced her at some point to wonder and confront me about if my spouse beats and controls me (he does not). It's a dark imagining my uNPD sibling came up with to invalidate my choices in life, I am sure. And uNPD sibling has long showed some jealousy of our close relationship and I think she wanted to wreck it, my enabler sib fell for it.

I'm just feeling weak and like I should respond and answer, when I've pretty much decided to go NC right now. I had her blocked a while then unblocked. Just to see if at any point there was a communication that opened up any discussion about this, to give her and other FOO a chance. I confronted enabler sibling about this smear campaign months ago and was pretty much deflected onto by her and my confrontation was not responded to, she just made it seem like everything I was trying to communicate to her was to make her feel like a terrible sister and friend, which is not true....and to make it all seem like my fault.

I just haven't responded at all but my guilt and love for her makes me want to. I blocked her and she could have sent messages to me during that time to communicate things about the issue more with an open mind (doubt it but I don't know for sure) but I just couldn't handle it at the time. It became clear to me at that period of time that my whole FOO was kind of distancing from me and pressuring me with a lot of passive aggressive tactics, including hers.

I think it's just hoovering but am I just wanting to see more and hoping for more that will not come? I haven't got anything good from her before NC. Based on past communications my gut tells me it's nothing good but having the NC door slammed on you probably isn't fun either....is my empathy just being played with right now ...thanks in advance everyone....

[blacksheep7]

Hello all you lovely Out of the Foggers  Been a while since I posted last, been checking up on posts here, and been feeling guilty I haven't offered my own support while continuing to glean such good wisdom from here on the regular... I need to get back into the healthy rhythm of both seeking and offering support equally....

My younger enabling sibling has reached out to tell me they're thinking of me and hoping I'm doing well. At this recent stage of things I have not been doing well. Dealing with intense exhaustion from chronic illness and her message has just thrown me off on top of it all.

One could do all the labor of reading my posts and my history but I'll save you that a little. Me and this sibling were incredibly close but it all came crashing down when I caught wind that my uNPD sibling got her hooks in her. I think (I don't have proof, or confirmation, only strong gut feelings) that this enabler sib was convinced by PD sib that I use her and that I'm lying to her about my experiences and childhood abuse, and that I've used her like a therapist. Also likely convinced her at some point to wonder and confront me about if my spouse beats and controls me (he does not). It's a dark imagining my uNPD sibling came up with to invalidate my choices in life, I am sure. And uNPD sibling has long showed some jealousy of our close relationship and I think she wanted to wreck it, my enabler sib fell for it.

I'm just feeling weak and like I should respond and answer, when I've pretty much decided to go NC right now. I had her blocked a while then unblocked. Just to see if at any point there was a communication that opened up any discussion about this, to give her and other FOO a chance. I confronted enabler sibling about this smear campaign months ago and was pretty much deflected onto by her and my confrontation was not responded to, she just made it seem like everything I was trying to communicate to her was to make her feel like a terrible sister and friend, which is not true....and to make it all seem like my fault.

I just haven't responded at all but my guilt and love for her makes me want to. I blocked her and she could have sent messages to me during that time to communicate things about the issue more with an open mind (doubt it but I don't know for sure) but I just couldn't handle it at the time. It became clear to me at that period of time that my whole FOO was kind of distancing from me and pressuring me with a lot of passive aggressive tactics, including hers.

I think it's just hoovering but am I just wanting to see more and hoping for more that will not come? I haven't got anything good from her before NC. Based on past communications my gut tells me it's nothing good but having the NC door slammed on you probably isn't fun either....is my empathy just being played with right now ...thanks in advance everyone....

Hi DistanceNotDefense 

I'm sorry for your illness and hope you are doing better.  With intense exhaustion you are in a vulnerable state right now.  Yes, this good be just a tactic to get you back in line.

There has not been any open communication like you said.  Has there been in  any  positive changes in your Foos behavior?   You have decided to go nc for a reason, yes, not fun for them but for your own protection... do not forget that. 

Do they know that you have been very ill? 

Who knows your family better than you?   Follow your gut instinct. 

take care

[Hepatica]

Dear DistanceNotDefense,

I think the question that might help is to ask yourself how far you are in your healing process. If you are still raw and wounded from past dealings with FOO then perhaps don't re-enter the ring. I read a few of your older posts and it looks like there is a family system of battle led by the uNPDsibling. If this is still the case, which it most likely it is because the sibling is PD, then bring this back to yourself. What do you need to heal?

Opening the door to more potential pain will not calm your system and you need calm to heal. My sense is that your enabling sibling might not mean to hurt you, but if they are still enmeshed they might hurt you unknowingly.

I'd focus on myself rather than go back into it all. Drama raises the endorphins and cortisol and increases inflammation in the body (and soul.)

I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with exhaustion and illness.

[GettingOOTF]

For me I feel like unless they are coming to me acknowledging the hurt and have been doing self-work themselves then it’s a Hoover.

My sibling reached out to me with the “how are you during this time” email and I responded. Nothing has changed. I regret responding as now on top of everything else I feel ashamed and a bit stupid for falling for it, for the hope I had that things will finally be different.

My sister and I were also close and for a long time we both acknowledged the abuse in our upbringing. After our mother died she started air brushing the past until she started out right denying things. She is so deep in FOG that I am beginning to see she will never be able to clear any of it.

Responding brought quite a bit of turmoil back in to my life and set my healing back. It was the last thing I needed as we were in the thick of total lockdown with no one knowing what was happening and my job pressures really increased because of lockdown. It was very difficult for me to process the issue with my sister getting back in touch.

You don’t have to respond right away. You can sit with it until you feel stronger. Just because someone reaches out doesn’t mean we have to respond.

[DistanceNotDefense]

I am so, so, so thankful for this forum, everyone. Seeing your messages this morning brought tears to my eyes. And clarity, so much clarity. I'm in a lot less pain and fatigue, thank you everyone....

It's times like these when I realize it really is a FOG we can get caught in....no better way to put it. I think I needed not just clarity, but validation, which is so hard to find in real life. Plus I try to act strong to myself and I don't reach out for emotional support. I have good people and support in my life without FOO, but it's been a desert in terms of validation and understanding....and it's precisely why this forum is so amazing. I feel strong and determined, and validated, like I've gotten from this forum what I should have gotten from family. Thank you so much again, everyone. 

There has not been any open communication like you said.  Has there been in  any  positive changes in your Foos behavior?   You have decided to go nc for a reason, yes, not fun for them but for your own protection... do not forget that.

Do they know that you have been very ill?

Thank you Black Sheep  No positive changes but then again I can't see what they're up to....they live far away (lucky for that) and blocked on social media... sometimes I sneak on there to see, get around the block and to get a hint of anything (it's clear she blocked me when she learned of my blocking her), and my enabler sis does post worrisome stuff...but she has been doing that for quite some time (faux-positivity/happiness, "no bad vibes," passive aggressive posts aimed at me, insisting life is perfect when she suffers closet alcoholism, etc ). I probably shouldn't peek at social media because I think it plays with my instinct to show sympathy and concern.

They have known that I've been ill for a couple years. I've been greatly on the mend this year, but two years ago I was diagnosed with CPTSD suffering insomnia, anxiety attacks, bodily pain, depression, increasing flashbacks, near complete debilitation and crippling fatigue, agoraphobia, suicidal ideation, etc. all from very repressed childhood trauma. My PD sib kicked me while I was down around that time, after a devalue and discard. My M's support was conditional and shallow, then avoided contact with me (except to text occasionally and expect immediate responses while at work, etc.). Since NC and a bit before that it's all gotten way better. Fatigue and debilitation arise fiercely still and I'm going to look into fibromyalgia, CFS, and similar pain-related issues next.

They know I was facing this and they know I've gotten better in some ways, but don't (especially PD sibling) want to accept that it may have to do with my childhood (which involves them, and involves changing the narrative) instead of my spouse, who was an easy target at the time.

I think the question that might help is to ask yourself how far you are in your healing process. If you are still raw and wounded from past dealings with FOO then perhaps don't re-enter the ring. I read a few of your older posts and it looks like there is a family system of battle led by the uNPDsibling. If this is still the case, which it most likely it is because the sibling is PD, then bring this back to yourself. What do you need to heal?

I'm definitely very early in the healing process  Went LC in late July. After making a few requests, which were swept under the rug/ignored, I started blocking etc. which is pretty much NC. (But I've been NC with PD sibling for a full year.) To get peace of mind...it's like I needed to detoxify and get them out of my life. I still feel incredibly raw. Most of the time I feel 100% better without them, and I feel clean of their....poison! And I feel free and good about my life. Then the guilt and shame creep in. I think it's the cost of not being around people who validate this experience, and doubting myself constantly. Who out there cuts out their family entirely? It's unheard of and not polite conversation, and very isolating as I'm sure you all know. One friend I thought I was getting very close with already distanced from me after I told them what was going on and the choice I had to make. It's a hard choice and it stigmatizes you. It's literally like you've been cursed with black magic going through this.

Opening the door to more potential pain will not calm your system and you need calm to heal. My sense is that your enabling sibling might not mean to hurt you, but if they are still enmeshed they might hurt you unknowingly.

I'd focus on myself rather than go back into it all. Drama raises the endorphins and cortisol and increases inflammation in the body (and soul.) I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with exhaustion and illness.

Thank you for your advice Hepatica (By the way, I LOVE hepatica flowers!)

I think you're totally right there when it comes to enmeshment. I feel like I was almost violently enmeshed with my family, and if I was that way, then my enabler sib is probably enmeshed to the 1000th degree. She's already made huge mistakes in this situation where she thought (more like kidded herself) that she was helping but instead it brought me immense harm. (I entrusted her with sensitive details that she went right around and told other FOO members about). I do think the rest of my FOO-- PD sib and potentially very covert PD / narc tendencies M-- have unfairly pitted her against me for their own uses and to glean info, or to even spy on me....so I feel for her, but she still harms me, and it's so very difficult.

And I think you're right too about steering clear. I wonder if I should block them completely again. Seeing their texts raises my blood pressure and I have enough of spiralling out into fatigue, pain, and self-doubt already without them. I've told choice FOO that they can get in touch by email (none of them have, and they've instead tried to force contact by phone/text, talking in person). So maybe I should throw up the blocks again and hope they can go back through their messages, reflect, and realize that email is the only way. Especially with holidays coming I know they're going to come out with guns blazing, playing on my guilt and sympathy to feel bad about not going to the holidays (just like last year...)

For me I feel like unless they are coming to me acknowledging the hurt and have been doing self-work themselves then it's a Hoover.

This is what I needed to hear. Thanks GettingOOTF.  I've been hearing it from myself but have a hard time validating myself, feeling so raw. Some part of me tells myself that I'm holding my family emotionally hostage doing this. I keep leaving out an important part, though.... myself...I forget I'm the hostage here. They've left me no choice.

My sibling reached out to me with the "how are you during this time" email and I responded. Nothing has changed. I regret responding as now on top of everything else I feel ashamed and a bit stupid for falling for it, for the hope I had that things will finally be different.

My sister and I were also close and for a long time we both acknowledged the abuse in our upbringing. After our mother died she started air brushing the past until she started out right denying things. She is so deep in FOG that I am beginning to see she will never be able to clear any of it.

I'm so sorry this happened to you too. Deep emotional betrayal like this is probably the worst feeling I've ever experienced. It's like the death of a loved one but they're still walking around, and you have no closure but all of the grief. And it happens to be the very person you'd thought you could run to first who is the one you have lost. And then there is mo one to turn to.

I think along your exact lines. I 100% don't want to feel the shame and regret opening up any form of communication again if it just means I'll be manipulated and fooled. My intuition tells me this too. My trust in general is injured, too. I will take your advice and heed your experience. Thank you! Again I'm so sorry you feel duped....you're not stupid. You're just very empathetic.

Responding brought quite a bit of turmoil back in to my life and set my healing back. It was the last thing I needed as we were in the thick of total lockdown with no one knowing what was happening and my job pressures really increased because of lockdown. It was very difficult for me to process the issue with my sister getting back in touch.

You don't have to respond right away. You can sit with it until you feel stronger. Just because someone reaches out doesn't mean we have to respond.

I need to internalize this advice so much deeper. I realize that I have a deep beef with people in my life who don't respond to texts (friends). But I do let go of it...I don't stockpile a grudge against anyone just for not answering a text here or there. (Serial non-responders is a different story....)

I guess I've just realized that I unwittingly pressure myself into feeling like I should be more responsive because I expect that of people myself. But you're totally right. I really don't need to respond, especially if there is nothing to say...others do it to me and I am OK with it, it doesn't even sever a relationship. So it's OK if I do it to others, even family, and they'll be OK. I don't need to worry about them. I need to worry about me. A healthy person would not find no response threatening, they would brush it off. If FOO find it threatening, they're not healthy yet and probably shouldn't be in contact with me.

Thanks again everyone.  I'm just so grateful. Just seeing these messages was like a sea change for my mood, energy, everything today, and I feel strong and resolute again. Hugs all around. Thanks again