Best replies for gaslighting?

[Bunnyme]

I need your word smithing skills.  Things are coming to a head with my uNBPDh.   I posted in separating and divorcing about an email I got laying out all the ways I've wronged him, then asking if we are getting back together or not.  Of course, his arguments are ridiculous, and he blames me for things that are completely his fault.  I've been trying to come up with responses, but today, my therapist said to just ignore it.  It is SO HARD not to try to show him the ways I know he is lying...but I know not to.  We have 2 kids together, and I need a paper signed by him, so I have to see him.  I need some things to say.  Like, "Your perception is very different from mine" to use.  I need to focus on the paper and I know I'm going to have to address the divorce thing (again). 

I read and considered your concerns, but we are so far apart that this will not work? 

We clearly see things very differently, so I need to move forward... I dont even know how to finish that.

I literally need to practice the phrases so that I can stand firm and not engage in the craziness. 

Anyone have some good things I could say in the face of epic gaslighting...especially because I need his cooperation on the paperwork for me to move.  He doesnt know about the paperwork yet 

[Andeza]

He probably won't see things like a non-PD and rational adult. I think being a broken record is best...

"Hey, I need you to sign this, please."
He goes off on a tangent.
"I need you to sign this."
He demands you explain WHY you want a divorce.
"I need your signature right here, here, and initial here please." As many times as is necessary. You can throw in a few "We've already discussed that," or "I've already told you," if you like, without expounding.

Engaging will only feed his need for drama, his denial of any wrongdoing, and will drain you. I don't think you need the extra drain when you're probably dealing with a million and one other logistical issues already. Additionally, a good comeback that hits the nail on the head in this case may just cause a narcisistic injury and a meltdown of epic proportions in the driveway. I wouldn't challenge the gaslighting at this time, not with critical paperwork in hand. But... I would record the entire meeting....

[eyesopen]

Not sure if you could work any of this into a response, but this is what came to mind reading your post:

When a couple wants to stay together, genuinely, and is working on it, each person will be reflecting on what they've done themselves to harm the relationship, apologizing for it, and making it right. Complaints and blame lend themselves better to pushing people away, so he's made clear from his actions which way he decided to go whether he admits it or not. There's no use in trying to have a comeback to gaslighting as if you could expose the crazy lies for what they are. That's just not possible because he can just make up more lies, deny everything, accuse you of whatever you're saying he did, add more gaslighting, leaving you no route to satisfaction.

Best to keep any response brief, minimal, or not at all... ask yourself why you're communicating. If it's for anything other than sharing necessary information, consider whether or why it's even worth it.

[DetachedAndEngaged]

The less you say the better. NPDs want attention--more conversation = more attention, regardless of whether it is positive or negative.

You indicate you have to see him face-to-face so you can get something signed. Why can't you mail it to him?

Since you need his cooperation you are in a tough space. I feel for you. Hang in there.

[Wilderhearts]

When I was telling my non-roommate about how our uOCPDroommate was gaslighting me, she said "but that's not what you experienced."  I think phrases like that, "I remember...I experienced..." allow you to assert that their version of events/reality differs from yours, without debating facts (which would be JADE). 

"I'm not discussing it any further" is also a good way to assert a boundary that you can implement regardless of your uNPD/BPDh's behaviour.

I agree with Detached that it's a good idea to keep it as brief as possible - it's also a matter of saying only things that can't be debated.

[Prototypian]

I'm very pro the no JADE portion of dealing with PD spouses.

I would say:

This is the document that needs to be signed

(A fact)

Don't ask if he has any questions.   If he discusses something other than the paper state "I prefer to only talk about this document that needs to be signed"

I would have the paper clearly marked with the little arrows that show the places to sign it.

If he asks or discusses a topic that is not related to the paper keep your response very civil but firm in a monotone and non emotional voice "I prefer not to discuss that, this is the document that needs to be signed by you here and here and here"

Do not answer why you won't talk about it, why you're just letting a lifetime go, do not justify, argue, defend or explain.   If he refuses to sign which you can't physically make him do it, ask him the question "are you refusing to sign the document in these places?". 

If he says no, again you can not force him and you don't need the energy drain.   It will then be time for your lawyer to send a certified letter stating that these documents need to be signed.

This sounds harsh but it is not, you have to remain completely calm, have zero emotion good or bad, be polite and focus on the fact that "this is a document and it needs to be signed" because that's all you can control as frustrating as that is.   He will probably be frustrated too because he is not able to control your actions which he is used to doing.   That will be a very powerful effect on  him and you should expect some blowback because your behavior is not giving the responses he uses for manipulation.   

I'm preparing you for the likely worst case scenario whcih is he gets frustrated with the lack of control and gets angry and refuses to sign.  If he does, again, that's out of your control but a certified letter from you lawyer explaining that he did not sign when you presented the documents and that it needs to be done will have an effect.   

The whole thing is yours to control from a conversation perspective.   Do not fall into the trap of explaining why or how you feel or expecting him to explain why he behaves the way he does.   That willl be tough but in a lot of PD behaviors they don't see their behavior or manipulations as wrong at all; it's just how they are wired.   Your only point of strength is the refusal to engage.

[Boat Babe]

 

[blunk]

I agree with those that have already responded, keep it about the business at hand.

When dealing with my bpdxh I did have some success with phrases like; I'm sorry you see it that way, but this is what I need right now.

I know how scary interactions like this can be. I'm hoping that it goes smoothly for you, but wishing you the strength you need if it does not.

[Tranquil]

I hope you are meeting him on neutral territory in a safe place. Also can't your lawyer or his have him sign the papers?

[Kat54]

The less said the better off. Keep it to a couple sentences, and that you can repeat no matter what tangent he goes off on.

[BeautifulCrazy]

Such good advice here. I wish I had this forum when I left my ex husband.
I think your therapist is absolutely right about the email you received

...laying out all the ways I've wronged him, then asking if we are getting back together or not.  Of course, his arguments are ridiculous, and he blames me for things that are completely his fault.  I've been trying to come up with responses, but today, my therapist said to just ignore it.

In my experience there is nowhere constructive you can go with this.  Even if you placate him by answering, all it does is draw things out, create false hope and encourage him to keep at it. Even though it is hard not to take the bait sometimes and get drawn in, the best thing to do is leave it completely alone and interact only about facts, not perceptions or possibilities or history.

You are also on the right track with your ideas about responses in person. Like Jsinjin and others have said, try not to elaborate (or JADE) because of fear, obligation or guilt (FOG!).

"Your perception is very different from mine"

Full. Stop.

I need to focus on the paper and I know I'm going to have to address the divorce thing (again).

No, you don't have to address anything but that paper. "I'm not discussing that right now." Pleasant tone. Neutral expression / body language. Move on like cooperation is a given. Repeat what the immediate need is.

I read and considered your concerns, but we are so far apart that this will not work?

...can easily be "I read and considered your concerns." FULL STOP. (Again, pleasantly and neutrally delivered.)

We clearly see things very differently, so I need to move forward... I dont even know how to finish that.

You don't have to finish that at all. "We clearly see things very differently." is a full (and factual) sentence, as is, "Your perception is very different from mine." or "I have read your concerns and I am taking them into account."

If he keeps demanding answers and makes cooperating on getting the papers signed contingent on you engaging with him, just extract yourself from the situation. Like others have pointed out, you DO have options. Have a friend or family member take the papers to get signed. Send by registered mail. Send through lawyers. In each / any scenario, have little "sign here" stickies at all the points to keep focus. Don't distract him by talking, or using words to try to placate him and be nice and accommodating. Just business. Just facts. Pleasant but aloof. Managing his moods and his behaviours is not your job. It never was. You may have done that in the past, to survive the relationship, but the relationship is over now. Not your circus, not your monkeys.

Don't get down on yourself if you can't apply this stuff at first. It's difficult to do. Old habits die hard. Simply start over at whatever moment you catch yourself and keep on going!

Wishing you all the best Bunnyme!!


~BC

[commongoal123]

I need your word smithing skills.  Things are coming to a head with my uNBPDh.   I posted in separating and divorcing about an email I got laying out all the ways I've wronged him, then asking if we are getting back together or not.  Of course, his arguments are ridiculous, and he blames me for things that are completely his fault.  I've been trying to come up with responses, but today, my therapist said to just ignore it.  It is SO HARD not to try to show him the ways I know he is lying...but I know not to.  We have 2 kids together, and I need a paper signed by him, so I have to see him.  I need some things to say.  Like, "Your perception is very different from mine" to use.  I need to focus on the paper and I know I'm going to have to address the divorce thing (again). 

I read and considered your concerns, but we are so far apart that this will not work? 

We clearly see things very differently, so I need to move forward... I dont even know how to finish that.

I literally need to practice the phrases so that I can stand firm and not engage in the craziness. 

Anyone have some good things I could say in the face of epic gaslighting...especially because I need his cooperation on the paperwork for me to move.  He doesnt know about the paperwork yet 

I agree with your therapist.  Ignore him.  Insane people are incapable of understanding sane logic and reason.