for scapegoats, are you lied to by siblings & PD parent

[Jolie40]

SIL lied to husband, child, & I each separately this year

started to think about it & realized ALL siblings & SIL lied to me/us over the years
PD parent lied to me growing up & wonder if  lies only land on SG/SG family

found out about lies in various ways such as copied accidently on email or a family member slipped, told truth, & then said "oops, I wasn't supposed to say anything"

does this happen to anyone- being lied to by the other family members?
I just don't get why or the purpose of it!

[Thru the Rain]

My uPDM lies to everyone, all the time, for no real reason.

She makes stuff up that she thinks is funny or shocking, but she's just hurtful.

My sister and I have started comparing notes on M's stories. We've gotten to the point where we just openly laugh together at the crazy stories. She'll tell each of us a different, wild version of some revised or totally fabricated history - along with "I'm only telling you this, don't tell anyone else...." Um, yeah right.

Another tactic is she plays 20 (or 40 or 100) questions. Really intrusive and inappropriate questions. Then she packages all the answers up (minus the probing questions) and tells a long story as though her target was bragging or complaining. I've stopped answering to the interrogations and have found fewer lies being told about me. I've heard people here on this site call it an "information diet".

[SparkStillLit]

PdM lies outright about GC bro. I do not know if he lies as we have been NC ....well maybe I should amend that to VVVVVVVVLC because we say "happy birthday" and "merry Christmas" via text.....for many years.
She lies mostly to me, but also to select others. Usually not to her sister, who will then tell me what she said. If I ask. If I say I don't care, she won't talk about it. IF bro talks to my cousins, which is rare, we sometimes get an entirely different story, then we have NO IDEA who is telling the truth. What my mom tells my aunt is what M believes to be true. Sometimes it's so outlandish though, you know it's a lie bro told her and she buys everything he says.
The whole thing is a ridiculous goat rodeo and I try to stay entirely clear of it.

[Jolie40]

thanks for your replies Thru the Rain & SparkStillLit!
see I'm not only one who receives lies & was curious if lies go mostly to SC


they all can continue lies but I won't hear them anymore since almost 3 mos NC

[Hilltop]

Yes and it was really unsettling when I found out.  My mother lied about me to my sister, a lie that painted me in a really horrible light, I found out because my sister texted me an abusive message telling me how horrible I was.   I was NC with my mother for 2 years after that and unfortunately now am speaking to her again only VLC though. Years ago when I tried with my sister I Facebook friends her and saw that she was going on an overseas trip.  My parents were always telling me how poor my sister was and they had to help them out a few times.  My parents didn't tell me about the trip, I ended up mentioning it one day and all they wanted to talk about was when I became FB friends with her and what else I knew.

My mother also doesn't talk poorly about my sister but has slipped up and let me know she and my sister were gossiping about me.  My mother also forwards my texts but has on occasion accidentally sent them to me instead so I know my texts have never been safe with her.  She has tried to bait me by text such as asking what's wrong by text only and I've come to realize that she can show or forward my responses.  In the past I have responded and now realize that other people would have seen what I wrote.

I am the SG so I assume its done to keep me in my place.  I don't play anymore.  Any text I send are rainbows and puppies.  The last text she sent asking me what's wrong I sent one back saying nothing, I had no idea what she was talking about.  I have learned my lesson of not bothering to talk about problems or issues, as soon as she finds out what is on my mind, she tells me I'm sensitive and changes the conversation, she just wants to know the problem for her own curiosity and then no doubt gossips about it with other family and paints me as the problem child.

The worst lie to date was over the phone my mother told me a certain time for my grandfathers funeral.  When I text her later for the time again it was 3 hours earlier.  Over the phone she could deny, in text I could show people.  I then doubted myself over what I heard on the phone, I mean isn't that what you do, doubt yourself because who would lie about that.  Now I can't trust her with anything, even my medical situations are cause for her to gossip about to everyone.

I don't know why she does it but I think it's to make sure I am seen how she wants me to be seen within the family and she needs proof of that for them.  Any text she can show them, not turning up to my grandfathers funeral (which luckily didn't happen) well she is simply trying to write a script.  Its sick.

[Nomoretoday]

Unfortunately yes. Sadly both are disordered and neither sees it. I moved back home to help my NMom but it was a huge mistake. From being blamed for her mistakes to just outright bullshit. My sister now tells me my mom is defending me to her but my sister has lied so many times it amazes me. I just don't trust either of them because of the bullshit I've dealt with over the years from both of them.
Funny thing is when I confront them both blame the other so I just dropped it.

[Hepatica]

My sister (who I think is very covert NPD) lies. I think she loves doing it. I think it's partly the dupers delight she gets mixed with this obsessive desire to manipulate anyone close to her. How many times I was sitting with her and she was telling a story and either her husband or child turned to her with confused faces and said, "That didn't happen," And she'd laugh and say, "Yes it did," in this gleeful way and her husband or child's face would look like they wanted to argue but they seemed to anxious to start a fight in front of me, so they just let her do it.

My sister seems to NEED to manipulate people. In some part of her, I think she believes it is okay to do this because, we, the minions, we need to be kept in line, we need to believe exactly what she does and she will lie to get us to believe what she believes. I think she actually believes she is doing this for the higher good. This also comes with her gaslighting of our childhoods and present situation with my parents. She takes the truth and repackages it because the family must not be criticized.

I can't really understand what her husband and children think when she does this. It would drive me crazy. I detest lying.

[DistanceNotDefense]

In short: yes. Absolutely. And in the most confusing, shocking ways.

They have a reality they live in, and it is incredibly fragile. We long for a better reality for ourselves and we know it's out there. When that comes up against their reality it's just easier to lie (or gaslight, or manipulate, or rug sweep) I think.

[Hepatica]

How can we even relate with people that we know compulsively lie? It's like trying to play a board game with someone who misreads the cards or whose only purpose is to gain an advantage by cheating and slips the money off the table and adds it to their stash. Once the reality of the game is distorted there is no game anymore. That's when it ends for me. My father and sister sneak and lie like it's part of breathing and it's always bothered me more than my mother's overt tantrums. At least I can see exactly what she is. My father and sister try to fake they are outstanding citizens and behind the scenes all they do is calculate wins.

[Jolie40]

sorry Hilltop, Nomoretoday, DistanceNotDefense, and Hepatica that you've all been lied to, also
not nice at all being told wrong time for funeral, Hilltop


what I don't get is why is it necessary to lie in first place?
OR why siblings conspire with PD parent to lie to us SGs

[Hilltop]

Jollie I have thought that it paints a picture for them.  They need to have others believe the scapegoat lie.  If people knew the truth then it doesn't work for them.  My mother paints me as a depressed, troubled person.  So she lies to my sister, tells her I am causing issues again, I'm angry again, I'm upset again, it paints the picture of me that my mother wants to paint.  Of course it works because my mother also uses triangulation so my sister and I don't talk.

She doesn't tell my sister what has caused me to be upset, what she has done or said for me to be upset, she only passes on that I am upset, once again hurting her and she can play the victim and get sympathy and have everyone tell her that I am a horrible daughter.  On one occasion she was upset over nothing, she made things up to my sister.  Of course when I told my sister the truth can you believe I was then put down for telling the truth, I was told that I was wrong, that I was disgusting for causing issues when it was my mother who started the whole thing and my sister was the one to text me with abusive text messages but I was disgusting for simply telling my sister what had actually happened which was nothing, it was made up by my mother.  That's the other thing they twist things when it suits them.

I see them and they mock me but they blame me for the unpleasant visit.  If they were treated that way they wouldn't tolerate it however it's a problem if I say something or give them distance.  Again then they can blame me for the relationship, its not them.

I remember meeting one of my mothers work friends and the look she gave me sent shivers down my spine, I remember thinking to myself, what has she been told to look at me like that, I tried to be as nice as I could to this woman but ultimately realised that it didn't matter, the damage was done.

I wouldn't put up with this from anyone else but because they are my parents I do, it's a very strong hold and I suppose I doubt what I think because in part it's hard to believe a parent would do this to their child.  I do think my parents find their relationship with me difficult however there is no self reflection there.  My mother still swears I was a difficult child, of course it's the child's fault, blame the child.  They can't acknowledge their part in it at all, if there are problems they need to blame someone else.  Its the family dysfunction continuing on another generation.

I am not seeing them at the moment and there is a part of me that simply doesn't want to see them or make things right.  I think about sitting there while they mock me and I shudder.  At this point I no longer care if they lie about me, I am expecting it, at this point I simply don't want to see them or deal with this relationship.  They can try to fix it this time if they want and if I get an honest apology I'll consider it but I know they are incapable of that so even though I have moments of thinking of seeing them down the track, I simply can't stomach it and I don't know if that feeling will ever go away.

[DistanceNotDefense]

How can we even relate with people that we know compulsively lie? It's like trying to play a board game with someone who misreads the cards or whose only purpose is to gain an advantage by cheating and slips the money off the table and adds it to their stash. Once the reality of the game is distorted there is no game anymore. That's when it ends for me. My father and sister sneak and lie like it's part of breathing and it's always bothered me more than my mother's overt tantrums. At least I can see exactly what she is. My father and sister try to fake they are outstanding citizens and behind the scenes all they do is calculate wins.

I was just having a moment of self doubt about NC today, that I could be regretting so much, "what could have been," and then I read this. It was like the swift knock in the head I needed, so thank you Hepatica!

I'm similar. What it boils down to is a sense of morals. I've never been the type that can stand phoniness, fakeness, lying, people getting what they want out of you without giving anything back. And I think now that I know that about my family and realize they were precisely this way all along, though I assumed *they* were the ones who imparted these morals on me (nope, somehow taught myself), and that it was all happening right under my nose...going back just seems impossible.

I can't ever look at them the same way again from here on out, and have to stop looking at my past memories of them. There's just no going back with behavior like this, there's no going back for me. I see the truth now. They want to see, and speak, lies. It's just too bad. I don't think we can blame ourselves for not wanting to be around that.

[sandpiper]

Yes, and they tell really obvious, ridiculous lies.
I think it's their way of 'testing' people so that they can eliminate anyone from their circle who isn't going to support their delusions.

[daughter]

I was expected to participate in every holiday, birthday, most weekends, and at least one annual vacation with my nparents, and with exception of half the weekends, GC nsis.  And for 2 decades, DH and our kids and SG me did so, not allowed to object, or to make alternate plans. And yet, despite this enforced "togetherness", and me constantly interrogated by nmom, there were many many "secrets" of nmom and nsis not disclosed to me. Same info would be shared with relatives and acquaintances, but purposefully not me.  This would sometimes put me in awkward situation of hearing "big happy news" from said relatives and acquaintances, rather than nmom, who I saw and/or spoke to daily. Ditto for nsis, who I saw at all those weekly FOO gatherings. Why the secrecy?  I think it was "mean girl school-yard bullying" tactic, where "knowledge is power", and lack of information reinforces message of their low regard of me, the SG daughter.

My "value" was limited to my immediate usefulness, whether materially, as labor or resource", or psychologically, as their "scapegoat" to lift their vulnerable sense of self-worth.

[Jolie40]

They have a reality they live in, and it is incredibly fragile.

^ this makes total sense


thank you everyone was sharing your truths on this thread!

[Mamu]

I think as a scapegoat I was lied/gas-lighted by everybody. 15 yrs ago I wrote a book about it - A nerd girl wanting to learn how to lie. As my PD mom made me honest, i'm a truth-teller to the extent that  what I say or write comes true. So it's my superpower. So I'm happy. And I get to know when the person lies. The vibes or the so called highly sensitive person thing.