UnPDxh insinuating I’m abusive

[Mintstripes]

Every once in a while I forget how devious this man is.

Backstory: I started posting here 3-4 years ago before finally escaping my emotionally abusive UnPDxh. Lived in a DV shelter for a year with LO, got full custody. Ex has 2 days visits a month and a history of being inconsistent, canceling etc. He’s remarried now and they are already expecting their 1st child together.

Last time he had visitation, my daughter had not seen him for over a month and was refusing to let go of him when it was time to leave. I tried to reason with her but she wouldn’t budge (also note that she has behavioral issues and is taking medication for them so this isn’t just a normal tantrum thing). Ex was not helping the situation and it was almost as if he wanted me to be the “bad cop” who would set the rules. It was getting later and later and at one point I had to physically pick up LO and carry her into our house. She was, of course, kicking and screaming the entire time and attacking me physically (this is typical behavior for her) while screaming “don’t touch me”.

This week, ex sends me veiled and not so veiled texts about how I “grabbed her” and she was screaming and he doesn’t want to see “his daughter handled like that” etc. I do NOT like what he is insinuating at all and don’t trust him AT ALL. I have my attorney on speed dial if necessary but I’m worried he’s setting the stage to try and start something. He is part of a fundamentalist cult and generally they will do anything to reclaim and “save” the children from the parent who has escaped the cult.

Now, ex usually has a pattern of trying to start something with me. I grey rock and it usually blows over, but I’m always countless steps ahead of him, just in case.

I wanted to get this off my chest. He is just trying to control and threaten me. I honestly hope he gets caught up in his new life out of state and leaves us alone.

Edited: typos

[JollyJazz]

Hi Mint,

Ugh, just more horrible stuff / attempts to control you from this guy 😢 just sending you strength and support 🤗 xx

[Mintstripes]

Hi Mint,

Ugh, just more horrible stuff / attempts to control you from this guy 😢 just sending you strength and support 🤗 xx

Thanks so much, Jolly! He comes in like a hurricane and tries to destabilize/accuse. It's been almost 3 years since I left. He will never change.

I have to just deal the best I can and not get wrapped up in his attempts to abuse me. I still hate it, though.

[GettingOOTF]

I'm so sorry you are still dealing with him. My ex couldn't stand that he lost control over me. He tired all sorts of stuff to break me.

Keep moving forward with your life.   Also hope he moves on with his own life. My ex got involved with his new GF and that helped a lot. It's a terrible thing to say but once the new baby comes it may put his attention on them as he has more control over them.

[Mintstripes]

I'm so sorry you are still dealing with him. My ex couldn't stand that he lost control over me. He tired all sorts of stuff to break me.

Keep moving forward with your life.   Also hope he moves on with his own life. My ex got involved with his new GF and that helped a lot. It's a terrible thing to say but once the new baby comes it may put his attention on them as he has more control over them.

Hi GettingOOTF,
Nice to see you here. Hope you are doing well.
I hope you're right about him redirecting himself towards this new family he's building.
I feel bad for the new wife. It was an arranged marriage. She's probably half his age and is basically going to be having babies until she can't anymore.

I can't imagine LO will have much contact with his new kids, if he even keeps up with his visitation. LO won't have anything in common with them. They live an extremely insular lifestyle and ex has become even more religious since he moved to the cult "headquarters", so to speak. LO is also kind of a liability because she could be a "bad influence" by being worldly and not cut off from TV, Internet, people from different backgrounds etc. I am so so glad I left.

[Penny Lane]

You are not alone in this!

Just the other night I was talking to DH about this issue. His ex used to constantly, CONSTANTLY, imply or outright accuse him of abusing the kids. All kinds of things. She would demand to know where a tiny bruise came from, several days into her parenting time, and when DH didn't know about the bruise she would accuse him of being neglectful. She would tell him that she believed he was so mentally unwell that she wouldn't "allow" the kids to do various fun activities with him, during his parenting time. When I moved in she was constantly insisting that my pet attacked the kids. (Later we learned that her dog actually broke her leg around that time). It was all a combination of projection + wanting to get his attention/control him, and knowing that he would be forced to pay attention to scary accusations.

The good thing in our case is that the accusations have seemed to die down after years of him not responding or medium chilling. They definitely leave a mental scar though - just the other night the kids got hurt in a VERY normal kid way, and DH freaked out about what his ex would say about it or if she would finally call CPS like she always used to threaten to do.

I really hope your ex loses interest in your daughter once his new child is born - I do think that's possible or even likely.

ALSO, and I know that laying blame for her behavior isn't the point, but like if he barely shows up for visitation of course she's going to be upset when he leaves, because she doesn't know when he's coming back? Yes her behavior might be more extreme than a child without a diagnosed issue, but the root cause of her unhappiness in this case seems very clearly to be him! I guess there's that projection.

[Mintstripes]

Penny Lane:

Wow. It's amazing how people like this operate from the same playbook and use the same horrible, controlling abusive tactics.

And it's exactly as you said: I am also constantly worried about DD hurting herself. She has been jumping all over the furniture ALL day and the last thing I need is for UnPDxh to make a big deal of a tiny bruise or something. They're truly horrible for doing this to people and can never be trusted. He acts all friendly and fake to my face but then sends these abusive texts, insinuating all kinds of nonsense and telling lies. He's quite unstable that way. Sometimes, he'll have an outburst and accuse me of not answering the phone on purpose and then will text the next day saying "sorry was just in a bad mood", as if that absolves him of anything. I ignore those too.

After his accusation this week though, I sent one text back saying that I did not grab her but simply carried her inside, because I wanted written proof. I did not take the bait for his other messages and remembered what my L told me over the years about ignoring him. 

I really hope he does focus on the new baby. I feel bad for that poor kid though, and the others they'll probably have. He totally sees his new young wife as an incubator. He wanted me to be that way but I refused.

[Mintstripes]

Also, Penny: yes, I think you may have a point about DD not wanting to let go because of the uncertainty.
She barely talks about him in our day to day lives but when it's time to see him, she's excited.
Unfortunately, and obviously, he's not a co-parent. In true PD fashion, he milks it. I really do think he wants adulation. We took a break from his visitation during the pandemic because our area was hit very hard, and he'd FT with her and sort of prompt her to be sad? Like "Are you ok? You look a little sad today. Are you sad because you can't see Daddy??"
So manipulative. Meanwhile, she didn't look "sad" at all, he was just projecting or trying to create something. And then he'd say things like "I'm sad every day I can't see you. Every day I can't see you it hurts me." What kind of thing is that to say to a young child? Of course, for a narc it's all about them and their feelings. Our children aren't responsible for our feelings. A more normal statement would be "I really miss you and can't wait to see you!" instead of focusing on his sadness, which I thought was really inappropriate. It was like he was teaching her to worry about his feelings.

[athene1399]

When we would go to SD's chorus concerts and she was coming home with us, BW would always do the "are you ok? Are you sure you're ok?". I hated that. I read somewhere it's an alienation tactic, like in a passive way they are trying to get the child to think something must be wrong by asking that.

I am sorry you are going through this. It can be so stressful. SO was accused of being abusive. It still bothers him to this day because he's from a small town and he always wonders who believed BM.

The last time BM accused him of something we didn't respond because I was afraid she'd somehow twist his words to use against him. I think it's good you try to ignore your ex when you can.

[Penny Lane]

One thing that DH does that might also help you, is that when BM sends these off the wall, totally untrue accusations, he screenshots it (if it's a text, or forwards the email just to himself) and writes himself a note about what really happened.

At first, a long time ago, he would get in a protracted argument about what happened (not helpful, obviously as you already know). Then he was replying with short notes like you did. But then she would reply back, and he would have to correct the record again, and so on and so on and she was getting the attention she wanted. Basically we realized, the point of the note isn't to convince her, it's to have in case she escalates the issue. And you can include all the context (like, this is normal behavior for her, he might not realize this but I've worked extensively with professionals on the right approach, she was reacting in part to the uncertainty of when she'd see him next and so on) without having to get into it with him.

Our BM too does the thing about being sad. I will never forget the time the four of us went on a weeklong road trip, and she suddenly had a family crisis that necessitated (in her mind) that she call the kids every night with graphic updates. Lots of prompts. "It's OK to be sad!" She cried on the phone multiple times. Finally one night DSS told her "I'm actually going to try not to think of it and enjoy my vacation" and she didn't call back for the rest of the trip. Apparently the only reason she even wanted to talk to them was to ruin the vacation by making them sad. It's so frustrating! What kind of parent does that?

Your LO is very lucky to have you as her primary parent. She will grow up with emotional coping skills and eventually figure out what he is doing, and probably want no part of it.

[Mintstripes]

When we would go to SD’s chorus concerts and she was coming home with us, BW would always do the “are you ok? Are you sure you’re ok?”. I hated that. I read somewhere it’s an alienation tactic, like in a passive way they are trying to get the child to think something must be wrong by asking that.

I am sorry you are going through this. It can be so stressful. SO was accused of being abusive. It still bothers him to this day because he’s from a small town and he always wonders who believed BM.

The last time BM accused him of something we didn’t respond because I was afraid she’d somehow twist his words to use against him. I think it’s good you try to ignore your ex when you can.

It makes sense that it would be an alienation tactic! At the height of the pandemic, when UnPDxh would deign to video chat with LO, he’d constantly he prompting her with stuff like “Do you miss Daddy???? It’s ok to be SAD about missing Daddy” and so on. He also started saying stuff like “I wish you were with me every day, it hurts ME that you’re not here. I wish I could tuck you in at night” and so on. Like, she has lived with me for 3 years and is fine, thank you.

Edited: typos

[Mintstripes]

Penny: Thank you for the tip on note taking. I actually started putting notes on my phone last year regarding his behavior but I neglected to do so for this latest incident, so thanks for reminding me. I agree that it's pointless to get into a back and forth with them. They are experts at twisting words too, as you alluded to.

It'll be interesting to see how things evolve as LO grows older and expresses her own opinions more and more (which contradict his own and/or go against the beliefs of his cult). I just know he will try to silence and shame her, so I'm prepared to deal with that and teach her confidence and integrity. I've noticed he already pretends to ignore her if she says something that is "inappropriate" for his worldview (ex: talking about Santa or Jack o' lanterns).

[JollyJazz]

Hi Mint,

I don't know what 'PD' your ex is... but I read a bit about the 'game playing' that some PD's engage in when it comes to custody, and some of these points may be of use/interest: https://www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/outsmarting-the-sociopath-next-door/202005/the-silver-bullet-in-custody-battle-sociopath

[Mintstripes]

Hi Mint,

I don't know what 'PD' your ex is... but I read a bit about the 'game playing' that some PD's engage in when it comes to custody, and some of these points may be of use/interest: https://www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/outsmarting-the-sociopath-next-door/202005/the-silver-bullet-in-custody-battle-sociopath

Hey Jolly,
Thank you so much.
I agree with a lot of what is included in that article and definitely apply it to my interactions with him. As the author says, he "concocts" things every few months and I basically grey rock and don't engage. People like this absolutely want a reaction!

[Stepping lightly]

Hello!

We deal with the "are you ok? Are you sure? you look sad. Do you feel ok? " thing too, drives me crazy.

DH was great at grey rock, but BM found a way to turn it around on him.  She convinced people that he was a sociopath because he wasn't having extreme emotional reactions to situations.  He was, he was just containing it in front of her, which made her even more angry.  DSS deals with it too, he's the SG and she has been effective in forcing his behavior to escalate in the past and then claim he is mentally ill.  We talked to him about staying calm in those situations, when someone else's emotions are off the charts it doesn't mean yours have to be.  He is apparently good at it because he mentioned at one point that it makes BM even more angry and at him and she calls him apathetic.  He rolls his eyes when he says it, so at least he has some understanding of what is happening.