Self neglect

[JollyJazz]

Hi All,

I've noticed that - especially when I'm stressed I can struggle with self neglect - I put others (including work) first and neglect my own needs and wishes.

I often feel kind of numb and drifty - easily pleased and not really that fussed about things for myself. Can Anyone else relate? Any ideas or resources on how to deal with this welcome!

[Jolie40]

this seems common with woman & not just members on Out of the FOG
woman have so many roles & often put themselves last ending up with burn out or illness

remember what they say on a plane "put your mask on first" 

[JollyJazz]

Hi Jolie40,

Yes, I agree, I think it's common with women too, and some men, think it's that feeling that we matter, to care for ourselves with love like we would a child.

[Hepatica]

Jollyjazz,

I am not sure if this relates but what I have been thinking of a lot about over the past few weeks is learned helplessness for myself and this does become self-neglect for me. I am very passive and if I think about it, I mean, go really far back to my infant years, knowing my mother and father's personalities, I cannot imagine that my mother attended to me very much, and if she did, she was probably in a bad temper. I actually think I learned to keep quiet bc I was afraid. A baby in a healthy family would cry and get soothed, but I am fairly certain if I cried my mother lost her temper, and bc she seems so immature emotionally, I even suspect she got mad at me at very early age.

I can sit happily for hours now without addressing my own needs. I think this is a really early injury and I'm working on it now to try to become more aware of what I want and need to be happier and healthier.

I don't know if this relates to what you are saying but perhaps. Self-neglect and learned helplessness is at the forefront of my mind lately.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I relate too, JJ.  The tool I use if I find myself slipping into that pattern is to work out a schedule for addressing those needs.  I make it easy and not something that will bring on perfectionism or self-criticism.  Like 20 mins on these 4 days of the week to do X & Y for myself.   And if I miss a day of it here and there, that's fine.  No being hard on myself.   The schedule helps me not slide further into the self-neglect.

[doingoveroroverdoing]

Numb and drifty...that's an apt description. I have struggled with depression, and stay treated for it, but lately I recognize certain messed up ways, fleas, are just legitimately depressing.

I don't *want*, don't care about much. Unless there's some urgency, my default state is pretty inert.  I have to really rally and act "as if," almost trick myself to get moving. I used to really rationalize not caring, that wasn't helpful. When I fake it I end up feeling a sense of accomplishment, even if I don't get myself into caring in the moment. 

I've always struggled with motivation, feeling feelings, and I think aging can do a number on drive of any kind.

I ruminate about hypnosis. I feel like if I could get myself into a pattern of self care, a floor of functioning, I might be able to keep it going. 

You're not alone!!

[JollyJazz]

Hi All,
What Interesting thoughts!
Thank you 😊

Lately I'm working on doing things to care for myself. I've noticed that I put a lot of effort into work and things for others, but often I have put myself last. I'm trying to make sure that I do things for myself. I'm getting better at it. I just have to make lists and push myself sometimes.

Hepatica- interesting thoughts about denying needs. I do wonder about that with myself sometimes. I've gotten 'The inner child workbook'. I wonder if I also learned to shut down my needs because I've noticed that when I'm very stressed I eat less. I'm sorry that you also endured this.

Looking2bFree,
Yes I've got a schedule too that I'm working on. I am glad you have a good schedule too.

Hi Doingoveroroverdoing,

Sorry to hear that you struggle with depression. I'm not depressed but I do think a lot of symptoms from childhood abuse are interconnected. I hope things get happier for you 😊

[tragedy or hope]

for me it come from living with an unpdh who takes the air out of the room without speaking! He will try to consume my thoughts. I know this because when he is gone for a long while I feel like me again and am motivated to do for myself. Also, he works to invade my thoughts about anything and everything so I am aware most of the time that I am not alone.

I do find space, but yes, I used to exercise 4 times a week. Now if i do something once a month it is unusual. He is home all the time. When I speak my mind or have different ideas than his he is very insecure. I keep them to myself, .I plan carefully without telling him, as he often does.
Then I DO no matter how he responds. Remember they don't change and we must be who we are to be healthy and survive if we have decided to stay. It takes great effort but you will be the better person for thinking about yourself. I like the schedule idea too. great thoughts here.

[SeaBreeze]

Between an autoimmune condition, my schedule, a PD mother who told me I was selfish if I asked for *anything*, and PD spouse who reinforced those feelings in me, I have learned to make a conscious effort to at least ration a little self-care each day.

Some examples that have worked for me: I buy disposable face wipes (a different scent or brand each time) and at least wash my face every morning. I treat myself to scented shower gel, body scrub, etc, so on a bad day I may admittedly skip shampoo and just twist my hair into a messy bun, but still get in the shower long enough to enjoy a few minutes of aromatherapy while getting clean. Other days, I may admittedly "spot clean" but then take extra time to shampoo followed by a monthly deep conditioning hair mask. (Basically, I blend in self-care with daily hygiene.) I try to do a face mask once a week while listening to motivational podcasts. I spend just 10 minutes most (not every) mornings to do therapeutic stretches for both my arthritic body and to clear my mind. I also LOVE and swear by naps.

I admit it wasn't til my youngest child started high school that I felt I was "allowed" to take care of myself again. After about 2 years of really making myself do these little things for ME, I gradually realized I do not need attention, gifts, or special treats from uNPDh anymore to feel good about myself. (Plus I look and feel better, too!) I also comfort eat less, now that I've found other ways to treat or soothe myself.  It has taken time and a concerted effort, and I have learned not to judge myself on days I lapse and don't do anything.

My suggestion is start small, maybe try some refreshing citrus-scented face wipes, or spend an extra $2  on the nicer brand of bath soap. Also, schedule breaks, like you would take at work! Do 10 minutes of housework or exercise, then SIT AND DO NOTHING for 10 minutes.
Or spend that 10 minute break reading a few pages of that book you've been meaning to open while burning a seasonal-scented candle. Or just breathe and look out the window. Baby steps, a day at a time.

[SparkStillLit]

I have that very invasive updh too. I have made it a point to get out of the house. Even to just have coffee on the back deck while the dogs do dog stuff outside. He is not an early riser, so this is best achieved early am. He's not even much for out in the yard, but he might appear where I am, so....
Another thing is to actually leave the vicinity. Walk dogs. Kayak. Hike. I'll walk dogs even in shitty weather. Or dark. I have reflective wear and flashy LED collars.
I can dance or yoga, but again this will need to be an early am endeavor.
Read a book, knit. I'll get interrupted reading, but not knitting. I've snapped off a few heads for making me lose count, so that put paid to THAT! I'm not always counting, either 🤭

[Coyote23]

There are some excellent responses. I want to add that I think a lot of people could relate to this in Covid who are working from home. I know a lot of numb and drifty people right now.

[JollyJazz]

Hi tragedy or hope, Seabreeze, SparkstillLit and Coyote23

Thanks for these ideas 😊

Self care is so critical. I just want to report that I have made a real effort with it last week and I feel so much better for it ☺️ all those little acts of self kindness really do add up. Sometimes it's saying no to something we don't want to do, or just making an extra cup of tea, the nice soap and shampoo and beauty routine, I love it! ☺️

[guitarman]

One of the books the author and counsellor Kris Godinez recommends is "The Disease To Please - Curing the People-Pleasing Syndrome " by Harriet Braiker.

Kris Godinez has a recommended book list on her Facebook page that you might want to have a look at.

[Sapling]

Thanks for sharing this JollyJazz. I agree with SeaBreeze about starting small. Tiny acts of kindness towards yourself can go a long way- for me it might be sitting in the park on my lunch break and feeling the sun on my skin, or doing just 10 minutes of meditation, or going for a walk around the neighbourhood.

My friend who gets treatment for chronic anxiety taught me this "7 spoons" method where you visualize the energy you begin the day with as 7 spoons. Some days, it may take 1 spoon to get in the shower, 2 spoons to get yourself to work, 3 spoons to get through the day, and then you still have 2 spoons to do something fun. But some days, it may take you 4 spoons just to get into the shower or 5 spoons just to get through a difficult meeting. And so, on those days, avoid committing to big things or putting pressure on yourself to begin something difficult. On those days, maybe your self care could be having a cup of tea and a quiet moment for example. I think this helped me a lot with regards to self-care because I started to check in with myself about where my energy was at and, act accordingly. It's helped a lot.

[JollyJazz]

Hi Guitarman and Sapling,
Thanks heaps for your support 😊
I'm getting there I think. I'm just trying to be more mindful about taking care of myself for sure!
I like the 7 spoons idea!!
And thank you Guitarman, I actually have that book and watched Kris (she's awesome) thank you for the reminder of the book. I have totally been brought up to please and so much of my energy goes to that.
Thanks both! 😊👍

[Boat Babe]

Numb and drifty. That's about right.

Ok put that on the list of things to work on !

Good luck everyone.

[IRedW77]

I definitely struggle with this. I don't feel like I deserve to have my own needs met. I have a hard time taking care of myself. If I get depressed or start struggling with something I just start skipping self care tasks. I don't clean my glasses for 2 or 3 days for example.

I also forget to eat and drink under the best of circumstances.

Sometimes any or all of this becomes intentional. If I get upset I tend to turn that inwards and deprive myself of the things I need intentionally.

Also, regarding food, I'll often not eat for long enough that low blood sugar adds to the bad feelings and it just becomes a self perpetuating loop until I force myself to eat something.

It all sort of becomes like a sheet of ice above my head that I need to break through to get back to normal. The water I'm in hurts, but it has its own gravity.

[Hepatica]

In Pete Wise's book C-PTSD From Surviving to Thriving, he gives excellent examples of how PTSD plays out after a childhood of abuse and trauma and speaks of self-care and dissociation. This book really helped me see what was happening when I had a flashback and I'd end up bedridden for a day or more, barely able to do the basics of eating and drinking. Since I've read this book I've learned so much and I am having the flashbacks far far less. He gives amazing tips about managing and healing. One of the best books I've ever read.
(I promise you, I am not his publisher....  )