PD Coparent wants to visit on the long weekends

[cgr68311]

Background: PD Coparent and I lived together on/off for 4 years and my 12  year old. When our baby was born in 2018, she would literally kick me and my 12 year old (10 year old at the time) out to the street because we were making too much noise. Eventually I began to have an affair but came clean, confessed and cut it off. It just got nastier from there, gaslighting, accusations that I was still cheating etc. Separated and moved back in together again, lived my life with her in constant fear she would start gaslighting me again and she did, and said I was cheating and hence would break up again. Took videos of me 24x7 and polygraph, didn't matter. Last few weeks I would explode in anger at her baseless accusations so now I was also abusive cheater.

Current: The last few months have been up and down, asserting myself into what our court order allows me to have, and avoiding conflict during exchanges despite her not being constantly on time, not showing up, recording and coaching our toddler to say no when asked if he wants to come over, pretending toddler is sick to avoid exchanging, being voluntarily under/unemployed and blackmailing me for money and the list goes on. The last straw was last week not being home at drop off and eventually showing up in the middle of the night with only a trenchcoat on, coming from a friend's hot tub or something, meanwhile our toddler crying for his mom while waiting outside her house, waiting for her.

What I did: I talked to her and said no more text agreements, we are sticking to the court order to the 'T', which indicates we pick up, not drop off. So far this week it has worked. She has picked up on time and I have not had to wait around or drive in circles until she shows up.

She's now going to start to work and has been complaining she will hardly see toddler except every other weekend and told her that's a false statement because she will see him in the mornings and evenings for her weekdays, We are on 2-2-3.

Now she's asking me if she can spend time with us this weekend, visit say hi to my mom etc.

Note. I am not welcome at her place that she shares with her roommate and never invites me to see my son on those long weekends, I am completely out of her life but she wants to be in mine, Help.

[Poison Ivy]

My circumstances are much different from yours: My children are adults and live out of state; my ex-husband lives in the same state as me (I'm in what used to be the family home, he lives in what used to be his parents' house); I get along reasonably well with my ex, all things considered.  When our children visit, they usually stay with me, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes my ex comes to the house, which I grudgingly allow. But it's awkward and uncomfortable for me, and I hate almost every minute of it. Partly it's because of being with him, and partly because him being here makes me feel like my space is being invaded. I recommend not having the coparent visit, if at all possible.

[cgr68311]

thank you for sharing your experience. I guess I just don't see the point of her visiting, other than giving our son some 'coparenting' time together.

[Medowynd]

My ex wanted to come over to my house and I refused.  He also showed up at the nursery at church and at my daughter's daycare, both places that he was not allowed to be.  I finally reinforced the divorce decree and he backed off.  I would not allow the ex into your house for any reason.  She has her time with your child and you have your time.  As you have seen, anytime that you deviate from the court orders, she will take advantage to expand her reach.

[cgr68311]

expand her reach... yes that is exactly it. A couple weeks ago we had snow storm and she invited herself. I was ok since she was bringing food. Next week she starts suggesting I should buy this and that for my place, etc.

[Stillirise]

I understand your frustration. My stbxUPDh likes to do cameo appearances at my house to "visit the kids." I'm in our primary marital residence, and we haven't reached a property settlement,  so he still feels the house is partly his.  I have come to see that while he uses the kids as a screen, the purpose of his visits is actually to snoop, or try and find something he can use for leverage in his next verbal barrage. 

I have managed to curtail most, but not all, of these drive-thru visits.  I now send the kids to meet him at the door, and don't invite him in.  It encourages him to call me a b****, when complaining about how I won't let him in his own house to see his kids, but I'm past the point of caring.

The one time I entered his premise, he wasn't there.  He was at work, and the kids were awaiting my pickup. DS11 didn't have everything together, and couldn't find something he needed for school.  He asked me inside to help him. I only collected his personal items in plain sight.  I was later accused of snooping, and of leaving financial documents on the table, which I didn't do.  Stbx actually picked the documents up from my home office, then accused me of leaving them at his place.  Needless to say, I explained to the children that they have to be responsible for their own belongings, because I will not be entering their F's house to help them anymore. 

I say all of this just to drive home this point...it is likely that is much less about the kids, and more about trying to find a button of yours to push.  Best of luck in setting and sticking to those boundaries.  You aren't alone in that struggle!

[cgr68311]

I like that what you said last, boundaries, exactly. It is just not logical also. I mean:

I'm the 'cheater' so she breaks up with me

I do my best to respect her life and parenting plan. Last few months she seems to be doing exactly that, moving on and living her own life of which I know nothing about anymore. It stings but I respect it and do not intrude.

Now she has landed a job (she had been freelancing here and there but not stable). So now is freaking out that she's only going to see him a little bit in the morning and a couple hours in the evenings during her designated weekdays and every other weekend.

She is now trying to play 'nice' and invite herself over. Last night at pickup she asked me to sit in her car and brought up the subject again and I shut her down, I said I would not discuss the topic in front of our 2 year old boy. But she's already making plans in her head, that she'll be coming over on my weekday evenings and weekends.

When we initially separated she had left the 'family/couple counseling' option open to review in 6 months (Dec 2020). She said I could ask at that time, but I am honest to myself and do not have any intent on asking since I'm not the one that broke up to begin with. So in my head, it is not logical that she now wants to be part of our lives during my parenting time but with no strings attached and worse, it is not expected to be reciprocal (she did not even invite me in to her new place when our son had his birthday, I celebrated his birthday at a park).

But most important, she gaslighted me all year about having a girlfriend. I was thinking today, to tell her, if you want to visit you would at least need to acknowledge that you fabricated all those gf lies to find an excuse to break up. But does it really matter? I think I already know the answer and should let her lay down in the bed she made for herself.

[plainwords]

My ex partner tried to do the same, until I put my foot down. When we initially split, we went to mediation and the agreement was that he could spend a full day at the house until our daughter was 1, so that he could spend time with her and my son (I did not want my daughter going to his house). When she reached 1, the schedule changed and it was Thursday after work and all day Saturday and he was to take them back to his house.

I sought mediation as at first he wanted to just be able to call to the house whenever he wanted to and would blow a gasket if I wasn't able to meet his demands. It was infuriating.

After my daughter turned 1, he would still try and call to the house after work (he was living with his girlfriend at the time) and I enabled the behaviour for far longer that I should have. He would pick up the kids and then if I wouldn't let him in, he would ask me if I'd like to go out to dinner with them all.

Eventually, he sent me a message saying he really missed the kids and would it be possible if from time to time he called to the house and take them for a walk with the dog (my dog, adopted from the dogs home after he left) or to the park. At this point I had to point out that our lives are completely separate now and it was not appropriate to call to the house or for him to really walk my dog. We live different lives and he was welcome to come and collect the kids at times other than agreed in mediation with some notice, but he was not to turn up unannounced any more. I told him I would be open to changing the agreement of having the kids more often if he was missing the kids and to let me know what would work for him.

I then got a reply, 'It isn't about us... it's about the kids. I left you, not the kids'. Did he ask for more time with the kids after missing them so much?... NO. But it was about the kids. It was never about the kids. It was about his control over all of us.

This happened about 2.5 years ago and he collects the kids as per our agreement now. He doesn't see me. He waits in the car and I send the kids out to him. He has not asked to change the agreement. I no longer get messages from him after work. Things are calmer.

Create your boundaries and be firm with them. It is really hard.

[cgr68311]

Wow, thanks for sharing. She reached out to me today with her new work schedule. She said M-F 8-5 for December (training) and then 10 hour swing shift schedule with some weekends after December.

I reminded her that I'm willing to file a parenting schedule change that works for her new schedule, but not willing to let her come visit for December since we are separated for a reason, unless she can provide a long term purpose or goal for these visits. She said she's not interested in being together ever but still wants to visit since she will see him so little once she starts to works.

I stood firm and as expected she pulled out her child support black mailing card. She said you don't want to collaborate so I will find a different job and file for more child support for now.

So that's what I deal with. She has trouble understanding that whichever job she finds, it will take her away from our son. She doesn't want to face that. I've told her repeatedly that I am willing to change the schedule with a reasonable number of weekly exchanges but that she needs to respect our separation and not just choose the parts she wants or doesn't want from our separation.  I also told her she can file but she cannot be voluntarily under or unemployed.

Very very difficult to deal with this person. She says I'm being selfish for not allowing her visits because it's not good for his development to see her so little. But at the same time, I ask myself, even if I allowed her to visit on my days, what would be the long term purpose? I am concerned that she will visit  and then stop visits when not convenient anymore and our boy will resent not seeing us together again anymore.

[plainwords]

Personally, I feel you need to remain firm on your boundaries. It is worth it in the long run, maybe not in the short term as you'll probably feel guilty, but in time she will probably calm down and adhere to the rules, but for her own control she wants to push those boundaries of yours. When she realises it's not working, she'll stop. I'm only going off what my ex has been like that.

Your ex, unfortunately won't have the opportunity to spend as much time with her son anymore. It's just the way it is. I work full-time and before Covid, I was dropping my kids off at breakfast club at 7:30am and picking them up at 5:15pm. It's just the way it is. It's life. It is no longer your responsibility.

It's hard work, but it gets easier.

[cgr68311]

She thinks a kid staying at daycare for 8 hours is cruel.

She says all other moms she knows (married living together) are in a similar situation but they get to see their kids every evening after daycare and every weekend, and she's tantrumming that she's only going to get half that time. And the single moms she knows she says have their lives compartmentalized, couple days with their children, a few days at work, couple days with the boyfriend, etc.

[plainwords]

Look, I know it must be tough for her. It isn't ideal, but every day people are making these decisions and moving forward with their lives in ways that probably aren't their ideal. It seems that your relationship was quite turbulent with your ex and then obviously you then cheated and this fuelled the behaviour.

I was constantly accused of cheating, although I never did and it's not a nice thing to experience.  You both need to move forward with your separate lives and this is why boundaries need to be put in place.

I would love nothing more than to spend more time with my kids, but it just isn't possible. Enabling the behaviour does you no favours in the long run. Make sure you keep firm with your boundaries.

8 hours in daycare isn't cruelty. It's not ideal
Working mum's who get to see their kids every evening after day care - also might not be ideal
Working mum's who are separated and work and only get 50% of their time in the evening and weekends - again not ideal

BUT... we all adjust and move on and make the most of our time with our kids to make their experience growing up as happy as possible.

[cgr68311]

Thank you all. I need to stand firm.

She keeps insisting, coming up with all these 50/50 schedules around her new work schedule but the math doesn't add up - she would still see him the same amount of time. So she also suggested visits where she comes to visit us during my days and visits for me during her days (but not at her place of course, since I'm not allowed there for some reason she and her roommate came up with but everyone else is welcome to).

Note: she will start her job in December so she's desperate for me to agree to visits. I find it very convenient for her to agree to visits now that she will see him little but over the summer and spring she would not even consider me on any of their plans on her long weekends with our boy.

This morning she texted me and said 'hey you want to have dinner Sunday night?' So figuring what she's up to, I said "yes if you find a babysitter". Then she clarified it would be for the three of us and I jokingly said "sorry but I don't like bringing my son to dates, especially first dates". and left it at that. She kept rumbling on that it's a good idea, blah blah, that she knows I miss our boy on those 3 day weekends with her, etc.

[Stillirise]

Good job standing firm on your boundaries.  I still get caught up in my stbxUPDh's threats of, "if you are going to be like this....I will....".  For the most part, they have proven to be empty.  He says these things to try to control me, and provoke a reaction, without actually having to do anything.  I have stood firm and called his bluff several times now, and his threats never materialize.  IME, when a PD feels like they are losing control in some way, the only way they know how to react is to bust though the boundaries of the person they feel is responsible. (it's never them.)

A few months ago, there was a discussion over on the parenting thread about boundaries. Numblotus and Lauren17 provided me a good takeaway.  Kids are like night watchmen.  They may test boundaries, looking for unlocked doors, but are hoping they are locked, for their own safety.  PD's check boundaries like velociraptors in Jurassic Park, systematically checking the perimeter for a weakness to breach, because they want to come after you.  This visual has helped me every time my stbx has tested that electric perimeter fence, and to also be a better parent. 

[cgr68311]

Velociraptor, dang, that's great visual lol. Empty threats, that's exactly what I've been going through and what my lawyer has said.

She said if you don't want to meet for dinner then that's fine,  that it's all about our son and also said that she doesn't have any personal relation with me other than coparenting, custody schedules, daycare etc.

Then why is she inviting me for dinner? LOL

She knows from conversations in the past that the only way I would spend time together again even as friendly coparents would be if there was family counseling guiding us to avoid past mistakes. That's another boundary of mine which I breached a few weeks ago by letting her bring over dinner during a recent snow storm but not doing so again, not going to accept her  invites with double motive.

I'll check out Numblotus and Lauren17 posts. Ty

[cgr68311]

Update: I told her we can modify the schedule to include a 2 hour weekday visit every OTHER week (those are the weeks I have him mostly during the weekdays).

She would need to pick up at daycare, spend time with him and return at my place at the end of those 2 hours. I told her I am willing to do this to make daytime hours equitable since we'd both be working full time and so that she stops bugging me to encroach in my life.

She still thinks that it would be best for her to meet me and my son to visit, at a restaurant or somewhere, then leave so he thinks mom is 'just visiting'. She thinks her spending the time alone with him will make him want to stay with her and unregulate him.

I stood firm once again and said I am not spending time together for many reasons, including the fact that I'm not going to get our little boy's hopes high that we are together and then poof, after a few weeks we are not doing it anymore. She is adamant that time together as a family can never be a bad thing. Right. Bottom line, her and I are separated for a reason, she wants to spend time together with no strings attached and without addressing any of the original underlying issues of why we broke up. There is mutual distrust 100% and only an act of congress or family counseling could pave the way for some time together as a family, even without strings attached.

[cgr68311]

Update: beggars can't be choosers. Today she counter  proposed a new schedule, boy stays with me M-F and she has him on the weekends. Caveat: She wanted 3 weekday evening visits. She said she would pick our son from daycare, take him to my place, feed him and put him to sleep at my place then leave. I said a big NO, not only it's unfair for her to have all weekend days but also most of the weekday evenings considering I work also, that would have left me only a couple evenings a week and about an hour each weekday morning to spend with him.

As expected, her PD kicked in in full force. She began to threaten me with court, and other nonsense. Because she could not get a reaction then she said she would just keep same current schedule, make her own daycare arrangements, etc. But she didn't stop there. Couple hours later my daycare provider forwarded me some texts from PD mom where she's threatening them with court, that she's not receiving enough updates from them, that she doesn't like them or listen to her, pressuring them to talk to her behind my back, etc. I apologized to them and explained to them her condition.

Later she texted me and said she would take me to court if I took him back to this daycare again, that she was upset that daycare people had ignored that she had a right to this and that. I ignored her again and just sent her a screenshot of our parenting plan regarding daycare and day to day decision making. Technically we are supposed to nominate caregivers together (which we did, she signed off on my daycare), and day to day decision making falls under the parent responsible that has physical possession on any given date. I last told her that going forward I will mute her texts during working hours because she literally bombs my phone non stop, and will respond to her texts as appropriate and based on urgency. I feel I aged two years this evening.

[Stillirise]

And there you go.  She proved that it's about keeping a thread attached to your life, not about what is best for your child.  It also shows she will be unwilling to agree in full to anything you put on the table for a compromise or solution.  I am extremely familiar with this tactic, and now simply play my hand so that he can have the last word.  Anytime court is threatened, I just ignore, but say, "bring it on," in my head.  BTW, keep all of her twists and turns documented—just in case.

Keep calling her bluff and hang in there.  It's clear that you've denied her supply to the point that she's turned to the daycare to try and fill the void.  Hopefully, they can manage her, and it doesn't cause you to have a disruption with your child care provider.  On the other hand, you have to work extra hard to appear like the mature adult, and reasonable parent.  It is exhausting, but if you can just hang in there, I believe it will pay off for you in the end.   (That last sentence is more a pep talk for myself today, but I think its valid for most of us here.)

[cgr68311]

This morning she sends me a video of a drawing with 4 little heads, and says that our toddler is saying the fourth person is my gf...and that she doesn't care about my dating life but that I should be careful with introducing him to a partner too soon.

I speak to my son in a different language which he's learning and I said that's what it sounds but no, she is convinced of her mind stories, or at least pretends to for some nefarious purpose like build her case or whatever is going through her mind.

I disengaged and muted her texts.

[hhaw]

Good for you.  Remember to document.
Everything.