What should I do/say? Anything or nothing?

Started by Associate of Daniel, November 26, 2020, 07:24:37 PM

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Associate of Daniel

I can't remember what or how much I've posted about this before so I'll try to keep it brief.

My ds14, for the first 11 or so years of his life enjoyed a good relationship with his uNPD father's parents.

A few years ago, his uNPD father and his uNPD smother fell out with them and are no longer in contact. (Except when the uNPD smother needs a fix and bothers the grandparents for one.)

UNPD father (my ex) is claiming that his parents are not safe for children.  He's not told me any specifics and in the 20 years I've known his parents, I've never witnessed or heard anything that causes me concern for my ds14. And ds has not experienced any concerming behaviour from them either.

I get along well with my ex parents in law.

I'm torn in so many ways regarding this.

On the one hand, I know that one of the best things you can do for someone who states that they're a victim of abuse/trauma is to believe them.

UNPD exH has never told me he's a victim of  such from his parents (or anyone, for that matter).  I could guess from his apalling behaviour that he is a victim, but whether it's of his parents or someone else, I don't know.

And then there's the fact that I basically don't believe a word he says - because of his behaviour.  It's the old vicious circle thing.

Then, I have a very distressed and confused 14 year old (beautiful) son, who had a lovely relationship with his paternal grandparents for the first 11 or so years of his life, and now is effectively unable to see them.

His uNPD father has told him and me that he can only see them with his uNPD smother.

He doesn't want to see them with her (and his grandparents feel the same way) as she makes things extremely uncomfortable for everyone.

He wants to see them with me, but only with his uNPD father's "permission", which of course he's not going to get.

Ds14 now lives with his uNPD father and uNPD smother and he doesn't want to rock the boat.  This shows up with various other issues as well, not just that of his paternal grandparents.

I also have the issue of the distress this causes ds's grandparents who desperately want to see him.  But the drama is causing one of them physical health issues.

My uNPD exH is demanding that I promise not to take ds14 to see his parents.

His parents and I have basically decided between us that there will be no visits anyway, unless ds is comfortable with it.

How do I answer uNPD exH?

On the one hand I want to ease his anxiety by promising there will be no visits.  But that then makes me another bad guy to ds.

I've told uNPD exH that there are no plans for future visits, but that, of course, is not enough for him.

I don't want to get into a conversation with uNPD exH about this as it would mean talking about ds's feelings about it, and that would cause problems for him with his uNPD father and uNPD smother.

If I don't reply, the uNPD smother will likely contact me about it in her usual demanding manner.

Do you think I should reply to uNPD exH with something like, "I cannot make such a promise as I don't know what the future holds?"

Thoughts?
AOD

GettingOOTF

I say this as someone who is NC with their own parents. The decision to go NC with one's immediate family is not a decision any one makes lightly. One of the things I came to see about my ex, who was incredibly abusive, manipulative and was formally diagnosed with BPD, was that he was not only his PD. He was also a person who had his own relationships with other and made his own decisions as an adult with agency. While he does have a PD, not all his decisions and behaviors were "PD behaviors".  His PD is simply one aspect of who he is.

Your husband has a right to control his relationship with his own parents and it's reasonable for him to think if he doesn't feel safe and comfortable having a relationship with them then he doesn't feel safe and comfortable with his son having one with them either.

It's easy to see our PF exes and PD people in our lives as  1 dimensional and existing only as a "PD", especially when we have the history with them that we do.

Another thing to consider is that not respecting his wishes in this regard will likely only make your relationship with him more difficult, especially in terms of his controlling your access to your son - which is something that he and his wife have a history of.

If you were a friend I'd gently suggest that you step away. As for your son, your husband should explain his relationship with is parents. This is not your relationship to manage, it's his father's.

I am largely NC with my family because they won't respect my wishes to break off contact with my ex so this of course colors my views on this subject. Like everything here, take what works for you and leave the rest. Only you know what is best for your situation.

notrightinthehead

Your son is 14, not a baby anymore.  He wants to have contact with his paternal grandparents and he makes that your problem. He does not even live with you, he lives with his father (son's choice, if I remember correctly) and does not want to rock the boat with his father,  he seems to want you to rock the boat.
What I would do in your position, I would validate son's feelings." I understand you want to see your grandparents. You feel sad that you can't see them. I am so sorry this is happening to you. That must be so hard for you. I wonder what you could try to do? "  I would not suggest any solutions, I would not try to solve this problem for him, I would not involve myself. I might mention that if son were to live with me, I might be able to do something, but as things stand, I do not have control over who he sees and who he doesn't.
I can't hate my way into loving myself.

Associate of Daniel

Thanks, Notright.

Just to clarify, ds isn't asking me to arrange any meetings or to discuss it with his uNPD father.

Each time the subject comes up he shuts down and won't talk about it.

And thank-you for your perspective, Out of the FOG.  I hope my post hasn't upset you in any way.

I have no intention of arranging any meetings until ds and his grandparents are comfortable with dealing with the drama that would likely ensue.  And even then it's not a likely event.

Ds would probably then be an adult so I would not need to be involved, although I would support the decision.

My immediate problem is that uNPD exH is demanding a promise from me that I not arrange any meetings.  I don't think I should have to promise such a thing but I don't know how to respond.

AOD

GettingOOTF

#4
Your post didn’t upset me at all AOD. I’m simply sharing my experience in this space. Relationships with parents are complicated especially when there are PDs involved. Your ex did not grow up in a vacuum, he learned the behaviors he learned from somewhere. For me personally I learned a lot of my toxic coping behaviors from my parents and my home environment. I spent decades undoing this conditioning. My siblings didn’t and I see my nieces repeating the same behaviors we all did.

You are divorced now and this is one of those situations that you don’t need to manage.  I found that the more I stepped away from this sort of thing the more peace and healing I found in my own life.

I started ignoring all but essential communication from my ex and then once we had nothing we needed to sort out I started ignoring all communication from him. He ramped up his abusive behavior and threats for a while but eventually got the message. Now he only tries a couple of times a year.

You do not owe this man any explanation for anything. Your son is old enough that he can manage a lot of the logistics around visits himself. Personally I’d simply ignore the message. Your husband, and now your son, are triangulating you. Notright offers some good suggestions I’d step away, but again only you know what is good for your specific situation.

Penny Lane

You've already answered him by telling him there are no plans for future visits. I don't see any need to engage any further than that.

Associate of Daniel

Thanks, everyone.

I ended up responding to him.  I wanted to stop the conversation dead (for my own nerves) and give uNPD exH some satisfaction so that things would be easier for ds, who lives with him.

I also am worried that uNPD exH might take legal action to block them seeing each other.  I'm not sure of what he could do legally, but there's probably some crazy thing.

I ended up saying that if ds or his grandparents requested a meeting that I would refer them to uNPD exH. It's essentially what I've been doing anyway.  I also said that I could promise nothing else as it depended on ds's growing maturity and independence.

I've had no response as yet.  I fully expect the uNPD smother to send an email demanding that I refer them to her instead of uNPD exH.

The frustrating thing is that the uPDs have got what they want, to the detriment of 3 very distressed people.

Ds actually opened up a lot the other night about it.  He is so amazing, that young teenager.  So mature and so compassionate.  How on earth is he like he is, despite his family situation?

AOD