Coming to realize that nothing is going to change

[Hilltop]

I had not seen my parents for 3 months and decided to go for a visit.  As I drove there I noticed I was road raging a little, my stomach had a knot in it and I was anxious.  I had been driving normally all morning, feeling fine.  I went there and my Dad was just acting weird.  I hugged my mother hello which is always cold and leaves me feeling yuck and I could hear him laughing behind us.  He then refused to sit down when we had coffee, he just stood there.  My mother was ok but slightly distant but my dad just kept walking out of the room and I could him him laughing he did that about 4-5 times while I was there.  It felt mocking.  There was no TV or radio that he was listening to, conversation wasn't amusing I don't know what it was about.  Then he didn't come out to say good bye when I left which he always does.  I know he is trying to make some point and for the first day after it had happened I was fine, able to put it back on him. The conversation had been fine I spoke about what I had been up to, random things just pleasant everyday conversation.  Now I just feel deflated.

I've come to realize that its never going to get better, I'm middle age and this weirdness is still going on, its exhausting.  In the past I have tried to talk to them, which didn't do any good, it was just put back on me, I'm too sensitive, I have mental health issues like my grandfather so I should just do the best that I can with that, I'm being difficult again.  I understand that they blame, my mother has been caught out doing a smear campaign a few years back, they put me down but the one thing I am unable to tolerate any longer is the mocking.

A few years back I would tell them how my in-laws were acting that was really rude and this year if I didn't know any better my parents were doing some of those things I had told them about.  Its the same behaviour, a little bit more subtle though and I am in disbelief.  If they are upset about something talk about it but to act out like they do - well what can you do with that.  I noticed earlier in the year my mother was over the top with her insults and now she doesn't say any insults, now my father is acting out, it's like they are a team, one stops and the other takes over and then they have moments where they are both fine.

This last visit it felt like my father was mocking me.  They have treated me like I am less than my whole life.  They have laughed at me, mocked me, told me I would fail.  I just realize that these two people who should have my back and be on my side have spent my whole life trying to bring me down, I just feel done with it.  I find it in some ways hard to believe but I am sure they want me to fail, they want bad things to happen to me and if I didn't know any better they feel like I deserve bad things to happen to me, they take pleasure in it.  That is my assumption of course but I feel it so keenly.  Of course in amongst that has been good times, nice visits just enough to make me feel that I am being too harsh walking away - I understand now that is probably intermittent reinforcement.

I hear people saying that you just need a strong sense of self and to leave it with them however I visit them and here I am a week later still feeling like crap.  I don't enjoy seeing them, I get anxious about it.  I don't enjoy pulling myself back up once again after a visit.  I don't want to take care of them in their elder years.

I don't think I can do this with them any more.  I don't want to go through life feeling mocked.  I would speak to them but that goes wrong, ignoring it just feels disrespectful to myself.  I kept thinking that I would just visit a little less and I could manage it but now what's the point, I feel responsibility to have them in my life because they are my parents but the relationship just feels too hard.  I don't want to hear from them or speak to them but that feels like some silent treatment tantrum, I  really don't want to put myself through it anymore being mocked, I don't even want to explain it to them, I just want to have some peace for a while.  Is it a tantrum on my behalf?  What if I can't talk about it with them?

[BestLife08]

Hi Hilltop,

I went through a very similar experience with my parents.  My father is full on NPD.  In her later years, my mother adopted his tactics, but to a far lesser degree. They both wanted to bring me down.

My mother passed three years ago, and I've since been NC with my father.  My siblings see things thru his lense, so they're also estranged.  In my experience, Ns will not change, so the best thing to do is leave them be.  It's difficult, but the sooner it's done, the sooner you can move on.

Good luck to you.

[TwentyTwenty]

Protecting yourself from mental and physical harm (mental harm leads to physical harm), and constant devaluation by your parents is not a tantrum, it is essential. Literally ever part of your well being relies on keeping yourself out of harms way by any means necessary.

[Hilltop]

I have now blocked my  mother from my phone.  My father has never once contacted me so I don't need to worry about him he just gets information through my mother and sees me when I visit. They can now only communicate by sending an email.  At this stage I am ok with leaving that option open  in case for some miracle they decide to send an actual communication however I am not holding my breath on that either.  I have blocked my phone because I know I will receive a normal text in two weeks time just saying "Hi how are you both, thinking of you" it's the standard two week text I get.  I don't want the disruption in my life by getting it and then spending energy wondering on whether to reply, not reply.

We don't do Thanksgiving where I am so that wasn't a worry however I understand by Christmas they will know I am not speaking to them.  I guess I don't care in some ways, its going to be the same at any time of the year.  I wasn't going to see them over the holidays anyway.

I am not really sure what it was about this last visit that got under my skin so much.  I'm not sure what it was that has made me just want to remove myself so completely.  I just don't want to deal with it. I would love things to have been different.  To me I am not sure why I couldn't just visit, have a superficial nice time and leave, in the end I wasn't even expecting the relationship to have any depth.  In the end though they couldn't even do superficial, they had to mock and I don't want to spend my life being mocked, being looked down, laughed at.  I don't even want to explain it to them.  At this stage if they want things to change its on them and I know they are not capable of that.  So I guess this is the start of NC for me.  I feel nothing maybe a little sad, it could have been different but I can't change things, I can't just take their behaviour like it doesn't matter.  Its just done.

I guess I write about it feeling like a silent treatment tantrum because that's what they will say, that's their voice. 

[Hepatica]

I am not really sure what it was about this last visit that got under my skin so much.  I'm not sure what it was that has made me just want to remove myself so completely. 

I guess I write about it feeling like a silent treatment tantrum because that's what they will say, that's their voice. 

Those two sentences describe so much of what I struggle with. The process for me, of going NC also had this perplexing uncertain knowing. I just know now that I can't do it anymore. It seems that as we become more educated and more compassionate to our own well-being we move in this direction with disordered people in our lives.

I think it took that drive to your parents while being mindful of the road rage feeling and the knot in your stomach and then having those feelings understood when you got there, as they taunted with the coldness, the mocking laughter, that you just needed to understand that this doesn't feel good and it's wrong. Let's face it, people in healthy families do not arrive to visit their parents and get mocked and laughed it. So on this particular visit you were very aware of how they treated you.  Making the decision to go NC seems the only choice because you've tried LC and it's not working. 

I am sorry that this has happened to you because it is not fair and it's painful and it puts you in a position to leave them to save yourself. This is ultimately so sad.

I struggle with this idea that the FOO will portray me as the disordered one who uses the silent treatment as a form of punishment. I am fairly certain that is how they view me. But I am between a rock and a hard place. If I try to convey to them via words or writing how it feels to be around them, it would take a million examples, because in my case it was like death by a thousand paper cuts. I was at about 900 paper cuts when I decided I better get out of there, or I'd bleed to death. Now I am off on my own stitching myself back up and I can't really say to them, every example that made me come to the decision to give up. And even if I tried, it would become a terrible debate and character assassination and I know that I would be the one on the ground. I know these people. They would rather destroy their child than face the mistakes they've made and say, "I'm sorry Hepatica, I didn't know and I will work on this,"

Someone in another thread said to congratulate ourselves. We have brought ourselves somewhere safe. In the end it does feel like we must save ourselves and that is what you are doing. So... well done to all of us here who are making this difficult life decision to find peace and healing.

As for the "silent treatment tantrum"  No, that is not what you're doing. You are saving yourself. You are not trying to change them by using a punishment method against them. You are choosing to focus on health and peace in your life to heal a lifetime of wounds. This is a long well-thought out last resort you are doing. And who wants to do it? I surely haven't wanted to. But I have, because in some cases we must. And it's really, really hard.

I am with you. You're not alone here. My situation is so similar and I'm grateful for you to share yours as it validates much of the difficulties I struggle with esp. on the bad days.

[Hilltop]

Thanks Hepatica your posts help a lot.  I agree that the extra distance this year has given me space to start seeing things more clearly.  I wish I was stronger but I am dithering on the final NC.  I am hot and cold on the subject.  I am sure and then I waver, I am struggling with the finality of it even though I do understand nothing is going to change with them.  I do think I need a year out with no contact but not sure if I want to make that permanent.   What is the best way to have no contact for a year?

I am wondering if anyone has sent a text saying that they needed space for some self work and wouldn't be in contact for a while.  In some ways I understand this would lead to mocking on their side but I wouldn't be there to hear it, I would block contact and it would give me some space without it being final just yet??????  Or does this just come across as dramatic?  Does it open up to them too much?  This option is more for me to not feel bad for just disappearing. 

Would it be better to not contact them without explaining and if later I want to re-establish contact I just did it?

I think a year out would give me a good look at life without them, see how I feel, how less stressed I am without the constant games, I am sure on that I am just not sure on how to do it.

[Hilltop]

So I did it, I sent an email to my mother, very short, just saying I had noticed a negative dynamic between us all and I had decided to take some time out for myself to work on some things and focus on the positives in my life.  I then blocked them on everything.

I felt so panicked and a little bit sick when I sent it.  I am leaving the door open however I really want to see how I feel with a good year of no contact.  I thought about disappearing without saying anything but ugh I don't know, I think there was a chance I would be right back with them having coffee and then I would think about that last visit and deep down I just know it's not right, I really don't want to live through that experience again.  I thought maybe I could just speak up and call them on it but what's the point, they deny everything, put it back on me and then they laugh at me, I've been there before.  I have spoken up and then they treat me like I am being particularly difficult and they have this way of it feeling like "look at how she is acting, its so hard for us, what can we do".   I feel like there is no way out, calling them on it doesn't work, talking about it doesn't work, sitting there and pretending its not happening so I am not reacting to them doesn't work.  I gave it a lot of thought and this is what seems like the best option for me.  I get zero enjoyment from seeing them.

I feel good about what I wrote because I don't care saying I am working on myself, I am not ashamed of that, there is no working on them, that's for them to choose and at their age, it would be a miracle if they did that.  I won't see or hear their replies so now there is nothing for me to do but work on myself.

I feel a little relief.  I feel like now I can really let that part go and start looking into healing myself.  I'm still in a little disbelief that I'm here but one thing I am sure of is that I don't want to go through life being mocked.  Thanks for everyone's help and supportive messages, it's such a strange thing to have to navigate.

[Hepatica]

Hilltop! Good on YOU.  You just took an amazing step toward your own growth and healing. This takes guts and grit and this means you are standing by yourself against bullies.  Now whenever you go to that place that is inevitable when we are empathetic people, which is to imagine what they are thinking, say "So What!" It does not matter what they are thinking. NOT YOUR JOB. From past experience you know it will be defensive and disordered.

I did do something along the lines of what you are doing last fall. I wrote them a letter telling them that I was suffering and needed to take some time to heal on my own. It was more likely anxiety about the holidays and how to get out of being around them and here's how people like they are deal with information like that. My uNPD father threw it in my face this past August, telling me to go back to my shrink. He showed up uninvited to my house, barged in and used my admittance of suffering mental illness against me. That is when I finally felt the anger I needed to go full NC. He is capable of going to the lowest lengths to hit back because he took my distancing personally. The narcissistic rage is pathetic and cruel. I no longer feel bad about not seeing him at all.

Be prepared mentally for some push back. It's ok. It's their disorder and you just maintain the course of action you need to heal. I did find Jerry Wise videos very helpful to keep me on track when I wavered and felt guilty.

Stay strong Hilltop. Just imagine a person outside of yourself going somewhere where the people around her mock and laugh at her. Imagine a character in a movie and how you as the viewer would root for the girl to walk away from them. Just because they are family does not give them free reign to behave like a$$holes.

I'm proud of you. What a strong and healthy choice. We are all here for you.

[TrueRefuge]

Hilltop, well done! You must be feeling a whole range of emotions today, I hope you're taking good care.

You can look at my post history, as I initially went NC asking for 6 months to work on me (to my narcissistic father - my mum died when I was a teen). My situation's a little different as I also shared with him a letter of everything I was hurt about, the really abusive things, and made it a condition of our future relationship, after my 6 month break, that we would need to have a conversation about these things, because I refused to have someone in my life who thinks it's acceptable to treat me that way. I can see how that could be perceived as quite inflammatory, but I don't regret it. He never protected me as a child, quite the opposite, and that little girl deserved protecting.

Anyway, he threw his toys out the pram and we haven't spoken in over a year. I'm quite happy with that decision and was prepared for it.

So, I know exactly where you are and how you're feeling today. It's such a momentous thing, and for the next few days you may feel floaty, brain foggy, anxious and out of your own body. I can only recommend proper self-care: rest, meditation/mindful activities like walks in nature where you actually pay attention to the external world and not your inner thoughts. Nutritious food. Warming contact with a good friend/partner. A favourite film (if not triggering). And above all else, some mantras that remind you how you have not done anything wrong and can be proud of what you've done for you. I'm proud of you

I also want to say, reading your first original post, how wholly unsettling it was to read. No wonder you felt mocked; I think that was exactly your father's intention. I can't quite sense how your mum was responding to his behaviour: embarrassed, colluding, ignorant.... I can't tell, but the fact she didn't tell him to behave suggests she's as wrapped up in this toxic dynamic as he is, just let blatantly rude. Honestly, the whole situation sounds horrible and I feel so sorry that you had to experience that with your own parents.

I'm very sorry you're in this position. But have faith you have listened to your gut, and no matter how this all turns out, you've probably done what needed to be done. Focus on yourself. On healing whatever needs to be healed. Don't let their responses over the next weeks and months derail your healing: this is your priority.

Welcome, and feel free to ask any questions if they might help you - I'm happy to answer

[Hilltop]

Thanks Hepatica and TrueRefuge.

Hepatica its so typical isn't it, you told them you were suffering and there was no support, no empathy.  There was no concern over how you were doing, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. 

TrueRefuge I'm glad you are in a better place however it does sound like it was a really difficult time for you with little support, I'm sorry for what you went through.  I see you wrote a letter.  The reason I didn't do that this time is that I have done that in the past and its never gotten anywhere but a whole heap of blame placed on me.  I already realize I will have to be mindful to keep them out of my head.  My mum just acted like nothing was happening.

I look forward to the new year and really working on healing like you said meditations etc.

[TrueRefuge]

Thank you for your compassion. I actually had a lot of support, I have great friends, a supportive partner and wonderful therapist, as you say, to navigate such a weird process. Have you got good support in place?

Well, the fact you've already done the sharing of the letter etc and they still treat you this way.... I don't blame you at all for needing a break and wanting nothing to do with them, whether it's for 3 months, a year or forever.

I hope you're feeling at peace (as much as possible) tonight, and you get good rest over the next few days. What will be will be, and we'll be here for you.

[Hilltop]

Oh sorry TrueRefuge I meant support from your parents however it's good to hear of all the support in the rest of your life.   That really makes a difference.  I do have other support and this forum has been an amazing place, really I feel like people here get it and really understand.

[M0009803]

So I did it, I sent an email to my mother, very short, just saying I had noticed a negative dynamic between us all and I had decided to take some time out for myself to work on some things and focus on the positives in my life.  I then blocked them on everything.

I felt so panicked and a little bit sick when I sent it.  I am leaving the door open however I really want to see how I feel with a good year of no contact.  I thought about disappearing without saying anything but ugh I don't know, I think there was a chance I would be right back with them having coffee and then I would think about that last visit and deep down I just know it's not right, I really don't want to live through that experience again.  I thought maybe I could just speak up and call them on it but what's the point, they deny everything, put it back on me and then they laugh at me, I've been there before.  I have spoken up and then they treat me like I am being particularly difficult and they have this way of it feeling like "look at how she is acting, its so hard for us, what can we do".   I feel like there is no way out, calling them on it doesn't work, talking about it doesn't work, sitting there and pretending its not happening so I am not reacting to them doesn't work.  I gave it a lot of thought and this is what seems like the best option for me.  I get zero enjoyment from seeing them.

I feel good about what I wrote because I don't care saying I am working on myself, I am not ashamed of that, there is no working on them, that's for them to choose and at their age, it would be a miracle if they did that.  I won't see or hear their replies so now there is nothing for me to do but work on myself.

I feel a little relief.  I feel like now I can really let that part go and start looking into healing myself.  I'm still in a little disbelief that I'm here but one thing I am sure of is that I don't want to go through life being mocked.  Thanks for everyone's help and supportive messages, it's such a strange thing to have to navigate.

Seems that you were caught in the JADE loop/trap.

It's a tough position to be in because you can spend many years in it (I had the same experiences with my own family.  Every time you visit there is always drama/criticisms, and you end up leaving feeling worse than when you arrived.  The cycle continues as you keep visiting because of they are "family")

The painful reality for the vast majority of people is that you will never get the result that you are expecting (for them to treat you with respect).    Every time you interact with them creates damage, which in turn acts as an anchor on your own emotional development.

You seem to have reached the stage now that allows you to get out of the loop.

It's not an easy choice, but it's an important first step to a more healthy existence.

[Hilltop]

Thanks M0009803 I really needed to hear that because as I always do I end up telling myself  "hey its not that bad, just ignore it".  Don't react to them and they will get tired of it and lessen what they are doing but its ongoing.  I kept waiting to find the thing to do to help make it better or to endure it better.  I have even had thoughts lately of "maybe I should have just distanced myself and not seen them for a while, that would have worked".  I have to remind myself I didn't see them for 3 months before this. 

I agree that with each new thing that happens it is more damage.  I feel a little shell shocked at the moment.  I don't really want to see them so I am happy with my email, I am happy to have time to just think about myself.  I sometimes think maybe I understood it all wrong and its nothing like I thought it was, but then I can't deny how I felt.  Honestly deep down I know I need this time out because I am so confused.  I feel bad for them but at the same time I am not sure.  I really don't like this and hope for clarity.