Is it controlling or being honest?

[Hilltop]

A while ago MIL would buy us numerous items for our house.  Including furniture, lamps, wall paintings, cushions, we received things  every 2-4 weeks, not just for birthdays and Christmas.  It was a sore point for me as I wanted to decorate my own house.  I would try to decline some things but DH said we couldn't refuse gifts, its rude so we had to take them.  It caused a massive rift and MIL knew there were arguments about us receiving the items. Eventually (after 4 years of it) I spoke to my MIL and told her my feelings, in a neutral and calm way.  I told her I understood she wanted to buy gifts for her son and he appreciated that however we didn't have the room to store all the items for the house so we were having to throw some things away and it was a waste, as well as that I really liked to decorate myself and took great pleasure in that.  I asked her if she could maybe buy things for him clothes, aftershave, bring him more of her home made food etc.  I explained its not the gifts she is giving but that I was hoping she could stop buying stuff for our house as I really enjoyed decorating that myself and we didn't have room to store anything.

She of course responded by buying things for our house weekly and told DH I was rude and awful.  I cut her off for good. This was not the only reason for doing so though. After another few months of doing this DH told her to knock it off and after that so she stopped buying items for our house. She still buys presents for him, small things, clothing, toys etc, telling us that it's FIL buying it not her  I'm thinking its because she thinks I just don't accept the gifts because its from her.  The last one given yesterday was a toy aged for a teenage boy, they all go in the bin.  I don't care about these gifts and it's not an issue now.  My relationship with her has never recovered.

However I am confused about whether speaking up is controlling or being honest.  DH and the inlaws said that it is rude to speak up about gifts. They believe you accept everything with grace and then choose what to do with the gift.  To me I saw the in-laws spending money on items that we didn't need and were throwing out. I do understand its MIL's love language however I felt there was also a message in those gifts.  To me if a friend said she didn't like oranges I wouldn't then buy her oranges, then make her an orange cake, then make her a fresh squeeze orange juice when she visited and buy her an orange coloured scarf for a gift and then tell her she is unappreciative for not liking it.

So I am still confused about speaking up.  Unfortunately MIL saw that DH didn't back me up so she rode over the top of me.  In her mind if she wants to get a gift that is her choice, its not for me to say anything however that line to me is blurry when there are problems attached to those gifts.  In my mind the gifts were for MIL not anyone else and she knew the gifts were causing arguments between DH and I and yet continued to do it.  She only stopped when DH asked her, she ramped up her behaviour when I asked her. Its almost like she wanted to teach me a lesson about being grateful regarding gifts.

She did end up teaching me a lesson.  I understood I couldn't change her, I understood she didn't respect me.  I understood it was better to walk away from her and I understood that with her there is no point talking. Now I throw out everything without saying anything.  I look back and think perhaps I handled it poorly.  Perhaps I should have just accepted everything and then donate/throw out everything from the start.  I wonder if I was too controlling?

[Poison Ivy]

1) I don't think you were too controlling. Speaking up about gifts in a situation such as yours is a good thing.
2) I love this example: "To me if a friend said she didn't like oranges I wouldn't then buy her oranges, then make her an orange cake, then make her a fresh squeeze orange juice when she visited and buy her an orange coloured scarf for a gift and then tell her she is unappreciative for not liking it." You're very witty!

[oak_tree]

My mother once gave me something she had accumulated over the years, that might have been practical to someone, but wasn't at all to me, and it was at a time when I was doing some serious downsizing. I told her how beautiful it was, that I very much appreciated the thought, but that I didn't have a place for it, and that the last thing I wanted was for it to end up in a giveaway pile like 90% of my stuff.  Maybe it was because it wasn't that dear to her, maybe it was my phrasing, maybe it's just because she had such a generous non-judgmental spirit, but the interaction went perfectly (from my perspective, hopefully I didn't hurt her feelings - she certainly never appeared to be hurt).  I strongly believe in the "honest and kind" principle...whether it's gifts, unwanted attention, constructive feedback to an employee...whatever. I believe you did the right thing, based on how you described it.
There's also the "consumerism" aspect of things...stuff stuff stuff...but that's a different story
P.S. I have some curtains I'm sure you'd love... 

[Andeza]

It's just being honest. Problem with pwPDs is they don't like honesty. They live in a contrived version of reality and expect you to as well.

When I first met my DHs uHPDgma, who has become a flaming intense PD since then, she asked what sort of things I collected. I don't. I don't have collections of things. Life carried on. A few years later she heard we had a handful of chickens for eggs and I started getting chicken stuff in the mail. Since it was cheap baubles, I tossed it. Rinse and repeat a few times. At some point she asked how I liked having chickens as pets, and when I corrected her that I had chickens for food production, I think it horrified her.

No more chicken stuff came in the mail after that.

I've since gotten tougher with the pwPDs in my life. I sat no thanks a lot now. They insist, I insist harder.

I like the example of normal that oak tree provided. We should be able to have these conversations without a fuss. It should be as easy as would you like x? No thanks, but thanks for thinking of me. Anytime.

My MIL also asks before she gets rid of things, sometimes more insistently than others, but she always relents. In that case there have been some really nice things sent my way. A couple of perfectly good couches all out of my price range, chairs, a few lovely decor items that I still enjoy. Bet she could get you some more curtains oak tree, lol.

[Hilltop]

Thanks I feel better knowing that.  I don't usually dwell on it but read something the other day that reminded me of it all and out of everything its the one thing from our relationship that I still sometimes ponder on. I've read so many things since then saying rejecting gifts is so rude and then I have a moment of pause. 

As Oaktree says I'm not into consumerism, it's just more stuff, its a waste.  I like minimalism.

I guess I don't see the problem with honesty, which is what I thought I did.  There was such a fall out from that talk and I guess sometimes I think back to it and think should I have just accepted everything, smiled and thanked her and then throw it all out later.  Could I have avoided that drama. How do you know when its best to avoid or talk? In saying that it's also annoying because with anyone else it wouldn't have been that big of a deal, it would have been a minor issue, I do acknowledge that MIL's response to that talk is what made me decide to go NC and it was the right thing for me to do.

I'm feeling better, BTW I'm sure the curtains are lovely, lol.

[treesgrowslowly]

I think that having others in the family challenge and criticize you for your decision to speak up has made you question yourself.

It happens. People think they know better than you regarding your relationship dynamics.

These family members spoke up about something you did... but you shouldn't speak up about something your MIL did. That's sort of a double standard or at least ironic...

You're allowed to tell people what sorts of gifts you appreciate. You're also totally allowed to give away any and all gifts given to you with or without telling the giver you gave it away.

Sounds like these family members are just wishing you had not spoke up. Maybe because they don't want to deal with it.

Honesty is really hard with foggy family.

It sounds to me like what you were asked to do is 'go along to get along'.

Big problem with that... PDs CAN'T go along to get along so only the nons do the "going along" and then PD insists this is how everyone will "get along"...

There's a lot of enabling expected when a MIL is giving people unwanted gifts every week or 2! That's not generosity it's crossing a boundary through a gift...something A LOT of us here can relate to.
Giving and withholding are just two different ways of controlling someone. I'm glad you spoke up! Honestly I think that she may have targeted you by hitting a nerve that you want to decorate your own home.

That is SO normal, so ridiculously normal to want to decorate your own home to YOUR own taste!

Sorry your MIL doesn't get it.

Trees

[GettingOOTF]

It’s being honest. If I was giving someone something that they didn’t want or like I’d want to know so I could get them something else.

Buying items for someone’s home on the scale you describe is controlling and intrusive. It sounds like there is enmeshment in your husbands family.  Generally people do not try to decorate other people’s homes, it’s overstepping a fairly accepted social boundary and you are well within your rights to put a stop to this.

Your MIL is weaponizing gift giving to control you and to insert herself into intimate areas of your marriage. You did the right thing speaking up. 

[bloomie]

Hilltop - everyone has already added great insights about the often covertly controlling and intrusive turn gift giving can take with PD family members.

I just wanted to point out that maybe for your DH and his family saying nothing and tossing or giving away these items is the height of courtesy and the 'right' thing to do. That is how they act from their own beliefs and standards or how they deal with troublesome behaviors in their family. Their choice. Their right.

But, for you, it is wasteful and intrusive and uncomfortable to receive gift after gift that is unwanted and unsolicited in any way. Your core values and standards and personal beliefs are to kindly and politely speak up and say no more to keep boundaries and create space around yourself and your home.

Because you hold differing beliefs and values around your mil's aggressive gift giving behavior does not make you wrong. It is simply a different view of this and making a different choice - which you have every right to make. In a loving family system your stated preferences would be respected and the behavior would be adjusted without another word. Because last I checked gifts are about the one receiving, not the one giving.

You've done nothing wrong simply because you do things differently. And  you learned a great deal about your mil who cannot handle the kindest of no thank you's. Well done!

[BettyGray]

Wow, she really doubled down on the gifts and gave MORE? How childish. "Well, I'll show HER!" she must have thought.

It is a monstrous boundary cross to try and decorate someone else's house. I mean, get real. My MIL is a love-bombing gifter, but the gifts are usually very thoughtful and/or things we need. DH does a ton for her, so they seem to have that sort of agreement. Otherwise, the gifts are just too much. DH has told her this when he feels she has spent a little too much money on something or when he knows it will never get used. She doesn't care if we return gifts - she wants us to be practical and not waste her money.

Also telling that your MIL thought you rejected the gifts because they were from her. PDs really think that everyone must be as immature and selfish as they are. Plus, remember, everyone is "out to get them." Also, good to keep in mind that PDs traffic in projection. So whatever she accuses someone of doing, she is most likely guilty of it herself.

The issue of gifts is always going to be touchy. Especially if someone put a lot of thought into the gift. There is a way to be tactful about it. Praising someoone's generosity but also making it known that it's impractical or just plain insulting isn't controlling.

One of my favorite Christmas movies is "The Ref." Don't know if you guys have seen it, but there is a scene where the very unlikeable (and most likely PD) mother-in-law gives presents to her children and grandchildren. She has lots of money but gives them cheap gifts. I think there was even a kid-like gift for one of the teenagers. Slipper socks as the only present for each of the adults. Later on, after they have half-assedly thanked her for her "generosity," Christine Baranski's character (the daughter-in-law) has just had enough of the mother's arrogance and entitlement. MIL says "Who do you think you are?" Baranski retorts: "Slipper socks. Medium!"

Other best line of the movie, from Kevin Spacey, if you can stomach watching him these days:

"You know what , mom? You know what I'm gonna get you next Christmas? A big, wooden cross. So every time you feel unappreciated for all your sacrifices, you can climb on up and nail yourself to it."

I am afraid it seems she is giving you the middle finger in the most passive aggressive way. Think about it.

She gives gifts - she appears generous.
You are honest with her about how you feel with excessive or worse, wasteful gifting.
She scapegoats you as ungrateful.
Checkmate.

Being honest with people is a sign of respect.
She saw it as an attack.
You had a very reasonable request, one she did not respect.
Not only did she not respect your wishes, she ignore them completely by buying more.
She showed you and your husband great disrespect.
But she managed to turn it around and blame you.
Classic PD strategy.

One thing I often think of when reading posts here is how we adapt to thinking certain things are "normal." When we know they really aren't. That's where the self-doubt comes in, because we know the difference, but others gaslight us. One of the most insidious aspects of dealing with PDs.

Sounds like you are in a good place re: NC with her. I hope your DH will continue to set his own boundaries with her as well.

[Hilltop]

Thanks everyone I found myself nodding along to all the replies.  This is something I really need to let go of.  I think in part perhaps its because I see some truth in aspects of it such as not accepting gifts is rude that it makes me wonder about my approach. I do believe that people should accept gifts graciously however as you have all pointed out, these are not gifts. Deep down I know this but struggle with self doubt.  I also agree with Bloomie's reply that gifts are MIL's love language however deep down I know it wasn't done with genuine love on her behalf.

GettingOOTF there is definitely enmeshment in DH's family.  I found out recently that DH is going through MIL's credit card statements and accounts to make sure everything is ok.  She is mentally sound and fine however she just can't handle life, she acts like a child.  FIL is still around but for some reason DH decides everything for them.  Its a nightmare. 

Trees - interesting that you mention that she targeted that because I enjoy decorating my home.  I never actually thought about that and my MIL did do that often where if I enjoyed something she would try to ruin it or stop it.  It was a thing of hers so that does make sense.  I also never thought about it being a double standard which of course it was.

Liz - your comment "Well I'll show her", do you know my MIL because that sounds just like her.  Yeah I do see it as scapegoating and as I am the SG with my FOO that is probably why this hits so hard.

I do feel that this is one time I was assertive in a good way, I rarely manage being assertive and really it is such a normal thing to do isn't it.  Yet around this foggy family I was made out to be something really bad.  I think that's what I need to work on, feeling ok about acting in an assertive manner.  I think back on this moment as I did something wrong when in actual fact it was ok and something I should be proud of, being honest in a kind way.  I feel a ton better, thanks so much for setting me straight.

[BettyGray]

Hilltop,

We are programmed to think that we do not have the right to be assertive or confrontational. This is a societal problem with women, as well. But in PD families, our scapegoat roles are assigned to us. We accommodate them. 

Terrified of confrontation, our group. When we spoke up we were just ignored or berated anyway. I am less scared of confrontation now that I have been NC for 5 years.

[Hilltop]

Liz I think that is spot on.  When I think now in a clearer frame of mind I don't think there was anything wrong with what I did or what I said, in fact I think I should have done or said something much sooner.  I have for as long as I can remember had a problem with self esteem.  I struggle with speaking up for myself and as you said, it comes back to that scapegoat role.

Like you said I was berated and put down for speaking up even when speaking up was the right thing to do.  I am making progress, in my 20's I had some really bad friendships and have gotten rid of those and now have lovely supportive friends.  I also went VVVVVLC with my in-laws.

I no longer want to tolerate any sort of toxic behaviour in my life and I am moving toward not feeling like I have to apologize for that.