Question about Narcissitic Charm...

[Sapling]

The one thing that all the PDs in my life had in common is that they came across as charming in the beginning. And, I was unable to distinguish between narcissistic charm and just normal-social-grace charm. Now that I'm really trying to remove myself from the firing line of PD behavior and create stronger healthier relationships based on trust and reciprocity, should I be avoiding charming people? Or is there a way to spot narcissistic charm early on? I'm trying not to get burnt again

[Boat Babe]

Good question and here's my thoughts.

Red flags: the difference between a charming non and a charming PD are those tell tale red flags. The better you know them, and there are lots, the quicker you see them. So, knowledge is power.

Our gut reactions: what is our body telling us about that person and/or that interpersonal dynamic? People with a history of PDs in their lives are very sensitive to them (a massive discussion in itself). so, by sitting with your gut feelings you will also gain insight into the charmer.

Personally I am wary of charming people whilst simultaneously often being dazzled by them. Luckily it's my acute awareness of red flag behaviours that brings me back to earth. As soon as I see one, the charm immediately becomes superficial and I can see it for what it is.

The words "charm" and "glamour" and "enchanting" are all synonyms of magic.  A spell has to be woven or cast for it to have an effect in the real world. PDs are high practitioners of this particular dark art. They twist reality to meet their needs.

[SparkStillLit]

I think the charmers still try to steamroll you, even in little ways. Like not "letting" you make a decision, even a tiny one, or not accepting a small refusal, (like we who have been conditioned think this is being persistant; it isn't), or going overboard on something (think lovebombing), going too fast....that kind of stuff.
I wish I could have told my young self WARNING!! PULL UP!!! before I splatted on the ground and now have to try to reassemble.
I think actually charming people are not "charming" to everyone. I think they're someone who, say, is a friend and you find their quirky traits charming, but not everyone does. Kwim?
I think maybe "charming to everyone" are probably PDs.

[tragedy or hope]

SparkSL,
Wow! You hit the nail on the head again with your insight.

"I think the charmers still try to steamroll you, even in little ways. Like not "letting" you make a decision, even a tiny one, or not accepting a small refusal, (like we who have been conditioned think this is being persistant; it isn't), or going overboard on something (think lovebombing), going too fast....that kind of stuff."

[tommom]

I'll be honest; I don't think "everyone" finds narcs "charming". I think that those of us (like me, unfortunately) who were sort of 'trained' by narc parents don't see them like other people. I have read that the narc see someone like...me, for example, or my sisters, raised by a certain type of personality to be useful. I personally think we MUST have given off those vibes because we all three married the same sort of man. Our PDm in younger male form.

Anne Katherine in her little book "Boundaries" describes a scene where a potential alcoholic goes on a date with the child of an alcoholic. He gets a little drunk, makes a scene, a mess, whatever, and she (since she was trained as the enabler of an alcoholic from birth, essentially) does what she knows so well....takes care of it and him.

What does she look like to him now? Oh man! She look like the perfect woman, the answer to his prayers, the fulfiller of all of his needs and boy will he have needs! Of course he is head over heels.

Voila! He's in "love". (There aren't enough quote marks to go around his concept of that word, though.)

I think what we need to do (and we hear over and over here) is to change ourselves. To be stronger, to have better boundaries, to know ourselves and our needs, to NOT try and fix everything and everyone. (My WORST problem.) When we get stronger, and be more aware and know ourselves and our hearts and minds the best we can, we stop being so attractive to those people.

To me, at least, that is our best protection from them and the only possible answer I can think of.

[LemonLime]

I ready somewhere once that "charm" is a verb.   And if you think of it this way you will be better off.
It has helped me to do so.

[clara]

When it comes to charm, context is everything.  There are certain situations where using charm is helpful in achieving a favorable outcome.  When charm is employed when it isn't really necessary is where I start seeing red flags.   

In my experience, all narcs and many types of PD use charm to get their foot in the door (of your life).  Often their initial approach to you is being someone who is oh, so charming.  And now I just run oh, so far the other direction.

[Lauren17]

I agree with Boat Babes suggestion to trust your gut.
The two biggest narcs I've met caused that quest feeling deep in my gut. And both times, I ignored it. Why?  As Tommom says it was my early training. I was always taught to give people a second chance, to be nice, that I was responsible for others actions.
I'm also working on actively watching for those little red flags.

[Sapling]

Thank you all for your wonderful insight and advice.

Tommom, I totally agree that early conditioning has made me susceptible to certain 'charming types. Its familiar to me. This really struck me:

"I think what we need to do (and we hear over and over here) is to change ourselves. To be stronger, to have better boundaries, to know ourselves and our needs, to NOT try and fix everything and everyone. (My WORST problem.) When we get stronger, and be more aware and know ourselves and our hearts and minds the best we can, we stop being so attractive to those people.
To me, at least, that is our best protection from them and the only possible answer I can think of."

Clara and LemonLime, yes I've also thought of charm as something people "do" and yet I haven't been as aware of it when it was happening in real time, as I am now (following multiple bad experiences).

Boatbabe and SparksSL, I am trying to trust my gut and look for red flags but the issue I'm having atm is that the "WARNING!! PULL UP!!!" signal is on overdrive for me. I'm seeing narcs everywhere lol. I guess I'm just a bit wary and don't want it to get in the way of future friendships and connections. But, as Tommom suggested, I will keep working on myself and keep watching out for those red flags.