Hoover- nice, then nasty

[Hattie]

I dated a guy for 2 months over the summer. He is pretty narcissistic and was really unsupportive when I had to do some medical treatment, which led to our breakup. I have not heard anything from him since we broke up in mid Oct. He stormed out of my house declaring "You don't deserve me!"

Yesterday I got a hoovering message from him suggesting that we meet so he can return a book he borrowed from me. I told him to keep the book, and that I found the cheerful tone of his message strange given his previous dismissal of me. He told me to have a nice life and then blocked me!!

Really confusing and upsetting that he switched from "nice" to "nasty" so quickly. I am not that devastated but it didn't exactly improve my day

[SunnyMeadow]

I see this as him hoovering and expecting you to run back. You didn't so he was snarky then blocked you! The fact you told him his message was strange considering how he flounced out of your house is perfect. 

Good for you Hattie!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yes, good for you! I think it's typical of narcissists. You called him out and they can't handle that. Dodged a bullet, there. I hope your health is improved.

[Free2Bme]

"You don't deserve me!" ..... well, he got that part right, you don't deserve that sort of treatment.  What a ding-dong thing to say after he just showed his rear-end.     


This definitely sounds like he is baiting you, and then gets mad if you  don't play the game.  Classic.

I have learned to be grateful for reminders of why I am so much better off without the giant, soul-sucking updxh.  When I have an encounter like this, it is unsettling but  it reinforces my resolve.

Try not to let it occupy much of your head space, unless of course you are concerned about your safety.

[Hattie]

Thank you very much for your understanding replies!

I know this is classic narcissistic bait and switch, but somehow it still got to me, and had me second guessing myself. Hopefully I will feel better about it in a day or two.

Sunny meadow- flouncing is a great word to describe his behaviour! 

Call me cordelia-i am feeling better now, thanks.

Free2BMe- that is exactly what I thought when he announced i was undeserving! I don't deserve someone who is self obsessed and doesn't care if his girlfriend is sick!!

[GettingOOTF]

Good for you. He was testing your boundaries. This is how PDs draw us in.  They test how receptive we'll be to their abuse through little tests like this. He came back to see if you'd "forgiven" him and be accepting of more abuse.

They are able to switch between nice and nasty so easily because they aren't capable of making connections like non-PD people are. For him it's about finding someone who will meet his needs, that's it.

It is very likely that at some point he will unblock you and test you again. Did you see Jurassic Park? Do you remember the scene where the gamekeeper/hunter said the velociraptors would throw themselves against the fence every day but in a different spot and how they were testing for a weak spot? This is exactly what this guy is doing to you. 

I'd block him so he can't throw himself against your fence again.

[Hattie]

GOOTF- what an analogy!    On point, though! 

I have been struggling with this the last couple of days. I had a really confusing conversation with my therapist about it... She seemed to think it was a legitimate act of relationship repair on his part, but I felt not. Idk, maybe I got the wrong end of the stick... generally she is a great therapist but I couldn't really understand what she was saying about it.

So then I ended up feeling terrible about telling him off as well as anxious about being blocked. 

I feel really confused. I don't think quarantine helps as I have been stuck at home with his going round and round in my mind

[Call Me Cordelia]

Even if it were well-meant, it sounds to me that his reaction to your caution was immature. You were not nasty, even if firm. His reaction is on him. If you felt that you didn't want to let him back in, that's fine!

[Phoenix Rising]

This is a classic one, IMO. I understand your feelings of confusion. Sometimes this bait and switch, hoover and projection can catch us off guard. I think you dealt with him appropriately and maintained your boundaries. They tend to throw a tantrum or completely ghost when they can't get what they want.

I don't know if it will help you but I wanted to add as well that you were in no way being harsh, nasty or mean. He is unsupportive, immature and nasty. You have the right to put him in his place and not walk down memory lane with him.. stay strong. 

[Hattie]

Thanks, guys.

That is really helpful, Cordelia. Even if he WAS trying to repair the relationship in some way, it can't have been a massive surprise that I would be dubious. So yeah, blocking me was pretty OTT and immature.

It is just the implied ostracism which is so triggering.

Phoenix rising - thanks. I was having a difficult week when he texted as therapy had been really intense lately and I have been having a lot of flashbacks. So yeah, I think he caught me off guard and then I felt worse...

[Hattie]

Ok, so on the advice of my therapist I did meet up with the ex to get my book. She seemed to think this was an attempt on his part to achieve some kind of emotional reconciliation after the breakup.

I have to say, it was a pretty horrid experience. He fixed me lunch and we talked a bit. He pretty much just wanted to boast at me about his latest professional accomplishments and the fact that he has been sleeping with loads of different women He even told me he was about to go on a date right after meeting me!! I tried to talk to him a bit about our relationship and breakup but he wouldn't engage.

I had a horrible anxious and sinking feeling the whole time I was with him, and now am experiencing a massive shame attack. Ugh.

I didn't really get any sense of resolution from the encounter. It did remind me why we weren't matched as i often felt quite anxious around him when I was with him, like he wasn't interested in me, or I like I wasn't quite good enough.

I have a therapy break right now for Xmas but I think I am going to have to talk to my therapist about this. I think my initial instinct to tell him to shove off was probably wise. I half feel like texting him now to tell him what an idiot he is, but no doubt that would just provide him with fuel as he embarks on his date  The poor woman, whoever she is.

Clearly all the boasting about new women is very immature. I mean, i have been on various dates too since we split but did not feel the need to boast about it.

Think I am going to try to ride out the horrible feelings this has triggered and then get on with my day....

[GettingOOTF]

I am sorry you went through this.

I kept reading that we can only get closure from ourselves. I met with my ex a few times after the divorce and they were similar experiences to yours in that they left me feeling horrible.  I did come to see that the only closure I would get was coming to terms with what happened and accepting that my ex truly was who he was and not who I thought he was.

Not all therapists are familiar with PDs or trauma, and some therapists are PDs themselves. The only date I ever felt unsafe on was with a therapist. My therapist said to be careful when dating therapists as there are a lot of  issues in the industry.

It is not your therapist's place to put you in a position to help your ex get closure. It's their job to help you come to terms with where you are, how you got there and how to move forward. None of this work involves helping other people feel better about themselves.

When my ex wanted to meet up it was always to boast or to rub my face in the fact that he was now doing something that he never did while we were married. He also used these occasions to put me down and blame me for things that weren't going well in his life. I always felt terrible when I left.

They do not change. My therapist warned  me about all of the above but I chose not to listen. Instead of saying a variation of "I told you so" she helped me see why I met up with him despite all I knew about him from our past interactions.

I know it's hard to make the final break. Like I said I met up with my ex multiple times before I made the break. True healing came for me once I was solidly NC.

[Hattie]

Thanks, GettingOOTF. I really appreciate your reply. It is helpful to know that you had similar experiences. Fairly typical PD antics really. I have read that they use being nasty to their exes as a way to bolster their ego while they seek new supply. The devaluation of the ex fuels the seduction of the new supply, so to speak.

My therapist is actually an expert in trauma and abuse. Generally she is very good but I think she was barking up the wrong tree with this one. I think she thought I would have a better sense of closure for getting my book back etc.

..... but no!

Oof. Sometimes it is hard to know what to do when you get conflicting advice and have mixed emotions.

I know the shame attack/ flashback I am experiencing will pass, and that processing these feelings is all part of recovery

[GettingOOTF]

I had an excellent therapist. She was off on a few things though, which I think is normal.

One of the big things I've been working on is on trusting my gut, on going with my initial instinct. I find I end up in fewer situations that make me feel bad.

Have you read The Gift of Fear? It was recommended here and I found it very helpful and validating.

[Hattie]

Yeah, I think that working through these kind of misunderstandings is all part of the therapy really. I have a tendency to engage in splitting, so I think it would be a mistake to decide she was no good as a therapist just based on this.

I suspect she was trying to get me to avoid splitting my ex black. The therapy is all about integration, so I think she was trying to find a way for me to integrate my conflicting feelings about him. Good in theory, more difficult in practice I think.

Thanks for the book recommendation! I will check it out. I totally agree that getting better at trusting your gut is a massive part of recovery

[Fiasco]

Good Lord. I would block the ex in every way available and I would take your therapist to task and give her a good grilling over this too. What exactly did she think you needed from that exchange? What therapist cares more for some dumb ex trying to "repair" a relationship that's already over than her actual patient? Ugghhh. As a side note I had an extremely abusive boyfriend tell me when I broke up with him that I would never find another guy like him. He didn't know he was wishing me a blessing with that petulant remark lol.

[Hattie]

Thanks for your reply, Fiasco. I spoke to my therapist on then phone this evening and we talked it through.

It is funny that your ex made the same sort of stupid comment when you broke up! These people really have zero self awareness

[Fiasco]

I'm glad you were able to talk it through. Yeah I almost laughed in his face. I was like one can only hope

[Hattie]

Then you for your support yesterday, guys. I feel a lot better today.

Back on the horse

[Whiteheron]

I also had a therapist who I thought was really good, but who made a few offhand comments/suggestions that didn't seem quite right regarding updxh. While she herself was of the opinion he was (is) a narcissist, I'm not sure she truly understood everything that entailed. She would make suggestions that were completely off base compared to what I'd read in books and on here.

I sometimes think that our situations are so unique, that unless a therapist specializes in PDs or has been in a PD relationship themselves, there is no way they're going to "get it" when it comes to certain behaviors.

So when she would give me advice, I always went with my gut. Even if it conflicted with what she was saying. I knew my updxh and his behaviors much better than she did, and I was fairly decent at predicting how he would react (he follows the playbook).

Sounds like your x was reaching out to make contact, to make sure you were still around and willing to meet with him again, and to tell you how desirable he believes he is, all in an effort to bring you back into the fold. updxh tried this through a friend of mine - ran into her in a store and gushed about how wonderful his life was and how happy and successful he is without me. Fortunately for me, she is well versed in PD behaviors and was able to see it for what it was. So his attempt to make me jealous and reach out to contact him thankfully backfired.