Triggered by parents who say their children have PDs

[WinterStar]

I was cruising around the internet, reading about PDs here and there, and I found a discussion where parents were saying their adult children had PDs. The tone was incredibly disrespectful; it was clear that they still viewed their adult children as children. They complained that their children don't do enough for them and don't want a close relationship. They said they haven't tried addressing the problems with their kids because their kids should know to behave better. They believed they played no part in the breakdown of the relationship.

It was incredibly triggering for me. I started to think about what my mom must say to others. From her perspective, she's trying really hard, and her daughter is increasingly shutting her out emotionally. Her daughter has stopped talking with her over the phone and doesn't address most of the content in her emails. She just wants to know what's wrong so that she can fix it. She tells me that she wants to work things out with me and that she's praying for me every day. She talks about the importance of truth and loving people where they are at. She tells my brother that I'm hurting her because I don't communicate with her how she wants or as often as she wants. It's the whole sainted martyr victim crap she's been pulling my whole life (probably longer).

I know there must be healthy parents with PD kids out there, but I've noticed that I side with the children in parent/adult child disputes. It just seems like parents have the upper hand for so much of the relationship. They really set the tone. They should be reaching out, asking questions, trying to understand and apologizing where necessary. They should be backing off when their child needs some space and not take it personally because there are so many legitimate reasons why their child might need to focus on other things. Particularly in the time of COVID.

Anybody else find they are triggered by this too?

[GettingOOTF]

I used to spend a lot of time worrying about what people were saying about me. I am NC with my family and have essentially replaced my entire circle of friends over the last few years.  I can make a very accurate guess at what they say about me, but I no longer let this take up space in my life.

It really doesn't matter what other people say about me. Their views of me are filtered through their own life experiences and really have nothing to do with me at all.

I avoid those Parents articles, boards etc.

Part of a PD is not seeing your kids (or anyone else) as individuals. People with PDs tend to treat their adult kids as children and children of PD parents have a really tough time breaking away and individualizing, which is an important and necessary growth step for any person.

It's a sensitive topic and triggers many,  but PDs do not happen in a vacuum. I'm sure there are exceptions but children learn how to behave and process emotions from the environment they grew up in. This is very established and there has been a ton written on it so you can easily read up on it to get some perspective on it. Learning this really helped me understand and change my own behaviors. We do a lot of things simply because that's how we were raised. It never occurs to us to question it.

The fact that we learn these behaviors from a young age and simply don't know any different for our developmental years makes is really hard for us to break these patterns. It's why things like abuse, addiction, poverty, PDs etc. are intergenerational. When you look at families there is rarely a single "bad seed".

Many of us don't know any better and only discover a different way of living much later in our lives. For those with children the behaviors have already been passed down and those children will need to find a way to heal on their own.

If something triggers you it's always good to take a closer look at what exactly about it is triggering you.

I did a lot of work on codependency and this more than anything helped me to let go of other people's options of me. I highly recommend Codependent No More.

[Thru the Rain]

I try to avoid those sites - they just make steam come out of my ears.

I will say I have a cherished fantasy of writing a note for my uPDM to take to her therapist. This note would be written as though it came from my M, and would outline some of the nastier incidents from my childhood.

It would end with "I just don't understand why Thru The Rain and I aren't close? Please help me."

[Duck]

I went down this rabbit hole the other night. I was looking for info on estranged relationships and found all these parents who were like omg I was such a great parent, my children are ungrateful, we are in a "silent epidemic" of children who are estranged from us for no apparent reason.

What helped me get out of the hole was reading a few comments from people who called out the parents' nonsense. One person in particular was helpful because she was both a child and a parent. If I remember correctly, she went NC with her parents. Then, she realized that she needed to change or else possibly lose her children. She did therapy and read and worked hard to figure out the best way to treat her children and respect them as adults. She called other parents out for not doing the same work. Then, I felt better because the toxic comments I read earlier got under my skin. 

[Duck]

If I am allowed to post links, this is the helpful post after which the author answers challenging questions about her article and explains that parents have to take responsibility.

https://wehavekids.com/family-relationships/adult-child-estranged-reasons

[GettingOOTF]

Here is a link that's frequently shared here. The author spent some time in estranged parents forums and the articles are about her observations.  I found it very helpful, it really puts a lot of things into perspective.

http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/why-estranged-parents-forums.html

[Duck]

GettingOOTF, Thank you so much for sharing that. I found it very helpful.

[GettingOOTF]

You are welcome Duck. It's such a great resource. I read it all again after sharing it. I get something new out of it each time I read it.

[BrightMoon]

This, hugely. I use a support group that relates to all this-PD parents etc. But sometimes there's people who go who use their whole time to rant about their kids, blame them, and literally dont see any aspect of their own behaviour that's caused it all-when its so obvious.

I really struggle with those people, and as mentioned, often feel triggered by them. I even fell out with one who started putting her toxic behaviour onto me until I asserted my boundaries. But to answer the question-yes, I hate this sort of thing, and there's too many parents behaving like kids themselves who happily put all their unhappiness on the shoulders of a poor teenager.

I also see a worrying trend in our culture more widely, that there is more and more of a growing voice of mothers blaming their kids for being 'toxic', yet they're always the same hysterical, bordeless, inconsistant, unbalanced parents..... Starting to see tv shows blaming the poor kids and the parents trying to get more attention and momentum to change laws and things in their favour.

[Andeza]

For every situation, there's a flipside of the coin. We are estranged from our parents because of reasons X,Y, and Z. But then those same parents find someplace to vent about the kids, like us, ending the relationship. Not ALL of the parents that say their children are pwPDs are wrong of course, and we have an entire subforum here for proper support. I don't go there, personally, just because it's not an issue I share at this moment in time. My kiddo is too young, and with a combination of luck and hard work, I won't need it. I throw luck in there because you really, seriously can do everything right and still have a child with a PD. I would never presume that effort on the part of the parent alone negates the possibility, because in my eyes mental illness and disorders while exacerbated by poor circumstances, are not always entirely caused by those circumstances. There is too much we don't understand about the brain, neural pathways, and unusual cases to make a blanket statement one way or the other. 100% Nature vs 100% Nuture.

BUT! I absolutely agree that a parent harping on about how everything is the fault of the child, with zero self-reflection or statements about doing personal work, is probably the problem, or at least a part of it, themselves. I guess I'm not triggered by it... In fact there are very, very few things I find triggering in the modern definition of the word. But that may be a weirdness with me, seeing both sides, understanding what causes their position while agreeing or disagreeing privately, and then carrying on with my day having made an observation about human nature. But, that's just my personality type, and autistic tendencies, on display. Now when I stumble across ranting parents, who by the very nature of the rant say "I" and "me" every third word, I shrug, move to a new subject, and carry on with my day.

[WinterStar]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. I have been reflecting on them and have gotten to the bottom of what is the issue here for me. It's the lack of self-awareness from these parents is so upsetting. I want to point out the obvious to them, but I know that if I do, they won't believe me anyway. And this is the exact same dynamic that I have with my mother. There's no addressing things with her because it is incredibly painful to try and nothing ever changes.

My mother says our relationship is important to her and that she wants to fix things and apologize for the things she did wrong. She just wants to spend time with me so that she can understand me. It sounds so good! I mean, I'd love to have a close relationship with my mom and feel understood and supported. But I've been on this rollercoaster a few times before. She doesn't have the capacity to listen or to understand. She ends up defending and deflecting. Then, if I somehow get through to her, she cries hysterically, and I end up comforting her.

In order to live the life I want, I have to get off the rollercoaster. It's the only way I can get the peace I crave. Every day, I argue with the version of my mother who lives inside my head. My mind works on figuring out the right thing to say next time, replaying old tapes to figure out where I went wrong before.  Because I must have done something wrong. Just like estranged parents have lists of things their adult children should have done differently.

[SparkStillLit]

I read that list of things that the PD parents say. Updh said most of them on FT to DD tonight. Unprovoked. I don't have any idea why he felt the need to even say that stuff. It just kept popping out at the most random moments. I objected kind of strongly to some of it and kept trying to change the subject (and also keep him off a political rant). He also did a full huff and furious "Jesus Christ" when I talked over him, but I WILL NOT GET A WORD IN EDGEWISE if I don't, so I ignored him. He talks over me constantly, and if it's just us, he doesn't let me speak.

[Justme729]

What bothers me the most about this topic at this point is she views me at the golden child.  Whatever child she is at odds with the most is the child that has PD and "needs to see a therapist" and "get over their mommy issues."

My youngest brother who was completely oblivious growing up to her antics caught on a few years ago.   We were reflecting on our childhood experiences.   Of course it would never hurt to see a therapist, to say he just needs to get over it is beyond hurtful. 

During my teenage years and young adult years, it was me.   Then, it was my middle brother.   Now it's my youngest brother.  I shut her down everytime she starts in with my brothers.   However, I don't want to be considered her golden child.   It pisses off my brothers.   I'm the only kid who speaks to her and I don't want that role because it assumes I have accepted her treatment to us kids.  It's far from the truth.

[SparkStillLit]

I have issues that she suffered two significant traumas and was raised and abused and scapegoated by a PD, but she gets labeled as a PD herself. I wonder if she doesn't have CPTSD or "fleas". Like, what coping skills or behavior would you even have if no good ones were ever modeled for you, and you had some mos of therapy way late in the game, and then you were out?
I think of all the things, instances, how she was treated and what was said....so much of it was what I consider emotional violence. Then post trauma....Lord. I can't think of it too much, what's done is done. I tried to mitigate it, but you really can't you know.