anyone leave a spouse who did not cheat or physically abuse them? why?

victoriousladyJj · January 04, 2021, 03:12:23 PM

Admittedly, sometimes I get caught up thinking that what I'm going through isn't that bad especially when hearing and seeing stories of people who have dealt with physically violent or unfaithful spouses. I mean...I've even heard it from my spouse! I get to thinking that all my husband has done is occasionally get cought in lies, act immaturely/irrationally or yell at me so maybe that doesn't justify a reason to leave?...maybe that's normal and I should just stick it out? I guess I'm looking for some encouragement and to feel like I'm not unreasonable. Anyone have similar situations?

GettingOOTF · January 04, 2021, 03:27:22 PM

Mine did not cheat or physically abuse me.

I also thought it was "normal" and I should stick it out. I spent years of my life waiting for a "proper" reason to leave.

Now I see that my being unhappy was reason enough.

Also, jokes on me because after I got divorced I found out he'd been cheating with multiple women over our entire marriage.

Trust your gut!

Poison Ivy · January 04, 2021, 03:56:37 PM

My ex-husband did not cheat with other women or physically abuse me. He did choose to be unemployed for many years of our marriage, suggest that we cheat on our taxes, withdraw physically and emotionally as a husband and father, and engage in probably illegal behavior with his father. We've been divorced for almost five years. I get along reasonably well with my ex but I don't regret getting divorced.

Boat Babe · January 04, 2021, 04:43:12 PM

I left my first husband, who wasn't PD because the relationship just wasn't working for me anymore. It was sad and messy. However, I don't regret leaving a failing marriage and am glad that I didn't spend decades of my life with a person who wasn't ultimately right for me. We both went on to remarry happily.

Unless you subscribe to "till death do us part" then you have to decide what the deal breaker in your marriage is. Being deeply unhappy is not a good way to live the rest of your life. If there are children in the marriage, a difficult parent and an unhappy parent is not great either.

victoriousladyJj · January 04, 2021, 04:51:03 PM

Quote from: Boat Babe on January 04, 2021, 04:43:12 PM
I left my first husband, who wasn't PD because the relationship just wasn't working for me anymore. It was sad and messy. However, I don't regret leaving a failing marriage and am glad that I didn't spend decades of my life with a person who wasn't ultimately right for me. We both went on to remarry happily.

Unless you subscribe to "till death do us part" then you have to decide what the deal breaker in your marriage is. Being deeply unhappy is not a good way to live the rest of your life. If there are children in the marriage, a difficult parent and an unhappy parent is not great either.

you're absolutely right. thankfully, we do not have children. We've been married only 3 years and admittedly, I ignored many red flags. The self doubt and guilt is my biggest enemy right now.

victoriousladyJj · January 04, 2021, 04:51:53 PM

Quote from: GettingOOTF on January 04, 2021, 03:27:22 PM
Mine did not cheat or physically abuse me.

I also thought it was "normal" and I should stick it out. I spent years of my life waiting for a "proper" reason to leave.

Now I see that my being unhappy was reason enough.

Also, jokes on me because after I got divorced I found out he'd been cheating with multiple women over our entire marriage.

Trust your gut!

"Trust your gut"..this is so true, and it I would have done this initially I would have never got married to begin with SMH

victoriousladyJj · January 04, 2021, 04:53:30 PM

Quote from: Poison Ivy on January 04, 2021, 03:56:37 PM
My ex-husband did not cheat with other women or physically abuse me. He did choose to be unemployed for many years of our marriage, suggest that we cheat on our taxes, withdraw physically and emotionally as a husband and father, and engage in probably illegal behavior with his father. We've been divorced for almost five years. I get along reasonably well with my ex but I don't regret getting divorced.

Wow, this sounds similar to my situation especially trying to get you to take part in immoral/illegal acts.

Starboard Song · January 04, 2021, 04:54:46 PM

I think you can proceed with confidence and an easy heart.

It is not the case that we have a romantic relationship with everyone in the world, only rejecting a few bad apples. What we do is have romantic relationships with almost nobody, when you think about it, accepting only the treasured ones that really help us to thrive. So we needn't justify the decision to not be with someone: the burden of proof goes the other way.

I know many women who are smart, kind, productive, funny, entertaining, and interesting, but whom I'd not date. Any serious relationship, if it is to last, has to be something special. That means it is quite all right to not be with someone for, really, any little reason.

Now, you've actually gotten married, so the bar is raised a good deal. But (1) you don't have kids and (2) you do have a spouse whom you suspect has a personality disorder. I think it is great to determine early on, when you aren't decades in, that the situation just isn't right for you.

I would never directly tell a member to dump someone, or to not dump someone. But you've made the call and are wondering whether you gave up too soon. I don't think so.

Boat Babe · January 04, 2021, 05:41:54 PM

Getting you to take part in illegal/immoral acts. Ouch ouch ouch. Really not good my dear.

ShyTurtle · January 04, 2021, 08:06:12 PM

My ex-husband only got physically abusive towards the very end. My more recent partner was never physically abusive, but the psychological abuse and the nitpicking and controlling behaviors were mentally and emotionally destroying me. It took a lot of work to piece myself back together. Comparing these two relationships, I would have to say that the non-physical abuse was just as bad. It takes its toll.

Bunnyme · January 04, 2021, 08:08:44 PM

Mine was emotionally abusive and would have terrible anger issues, but didnt hit me. I used to use that as an excuse to stay. Pretty low bar for a life partner, huh? I'd get sucked back in by the hoovering and love bombing. All of the lies and gaslighting had me doubting my ability to make decisions. The thing is, I'm finally getting divorced now that I feel I have a reason...drugs and endangering the kids. My therapist helped me realize that I was staying because I was worried about what other people would think of me for leaving. Was my reason good enough for them? Could I justify it? I was basing my choice of spouse and entire life on what others would think instead of what would actually make me happy. The thing is, I've known for years that I should go. We've not really been a couple for a long time. I'd walk on eggshells to not set him off. Act like the supportive wife when he lost yet another job. My biggest regret is that I didn't go sooner, but we live and learn from our choices. As others have said, I also found out that the lies I knew about were just the tip of the iceberg.

sad_dog_mommy · January 05, 2021, 12:14:11 AM

There are lots of kinds of abuse. Verbal, emotional, psychological and financial.

I would say to myself that I wasn't a victim of abuse because he never hit me... But he did shove me to the ground once. He punched a hole in the wall. He pushed a big flat screen TV on to the floor. He would block me from leaving our bedroom when we would have a fight. One night he was lying on the bed and "lashed out by accident" and kicked my broken arm.

All isolated incidents over the course of almost 10 years but all passively abusive. In my case, hindsight was eye opening.

Lookin 2 B Free · January 05, 2021, 02:46:10 AM

I always related to the analogy of the frog in the pot. If you suddenly turn the heat up high it will immediately jump out. But if you very slowly raise the temperature, it will stay until it is dead.

It took me a little while on here to catch onto what "Out of the FOG" really meant. In the fog of massive gaslighting, we lose our perspective. We lose sight of what the situation actually is. I really felt the fog lifting on my perception of things after some time NC. It continues to get clearer.

I read years ago about a conversation between an older non and a much younger one. It left a lasting impression. The younger non had been with his PD wife 3 years and was wondering if he should consider leaving. The older one replied how he wished he could go back and be in that same situation again. He had not left and now what he had to show for his decision was 30 years of very unhappy marriage and a life lived in a way he never wanted to live. Leaving isn't easy, and it's not for everyone, but it's sure been good for me.

Boat Babe · January 05, 2021, 04:44:18 AM

stormbrewing · January 05, 2021, 05:15:04 AM

He never laid a hand on me when angry, but my home has significant damage caused by his frequent rages. The yelling and pointing into my face had me so very afraid. His anger was used to silence and de-humanise me.

To my current knowledge he never cheated, but only if by cheated you mean engaged in physical sexual contact with another person. He definitely looked outside of our marriage for sexual stimulation and gratification, and in the end started contacting many women for emotional supply as well - and that felt a lot like cheating to me.

If your best friend came to you and told you that all of the things that are happening in your relationship are happening to her, what advice would you give? That's the same advice you should give yourself.

Does he treat his friends this way? You deserve at a minimum the same level of kindness and respect that he shows his friends. Would he tolerate anyone else treating you this way?

What would his reaction would be if you were to act towards him the way that he acts towards you. Most PDs would never for a minute put up with the treatment that they dish out to us as the people they are supposed to love. If that's true for you, then no this is not normal and yes it really is bad enough to justify leaving.

Most of the stories that are shared by the wonderful people on this forum indicate that things only get worse over time, and you don't want to waste any more of your precious life being subjected to such mistreatment.

I wish the best for you, and I hope that you can find joy and be at peace with whatever it is you decide.

blunk · January 05, 2021, 07:52:12 AM

Abuse is not just physical, it comes in many forms. If you are still feeling doubtful, I suggest you read "Why Does He Do That, Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. It really opened my eyes to what I was experiencing while married to my bpdxh. It is a difficult thing to label yourself as a victim of abuse, I know that I did not want to believe it...and my x worked hard to convince me that it wasn't true. When I finally called out his behavior, his answer was...it's just some words, it's not like I beat you.

That is one of the main things that I took away from Bancroft's book. Each abuser has a line in their minds that they will not cross, because they tell themselves only a "real abuser" would do that. The truth is, if they can hold that line...then they are fully aware of what they are doing, and have given themselves permission to do whatever they like as long as they don't do "that". I was a victim of verbal, emotional, and financial abuse...as well as manipulation, gaslighting, and various control tactics. But I'm sure, to this day, that if you asked my x, he would fly off the handle screaming how he never abused me because he never hit me.

Something that stormbrewing said also struck me.

Quote from: stormbrewing on January 05, 2021, 05:15:04 AMDoes he treat his friends this way? You deserve at a minimum the same level of kindness and respect that he shows his friends. Would he tolerate anyone else treating you this way?

I remember having this exact conversation, saying to my x that if anyone else treated me the way he did, they would not be in my life. He asked, then why am I? And my honest answer was, I don't know. I do know that was the beginning of the end.

I also know that if I did not find this website, and all of the caring and wisdom that comes with it, I might still be stuck in a marriage that brought me more pain and tears that it did love and joy. One of the other things that helped me greatly was keeping a journal. Mostly because his behavior was cyclical, so during the good times I would find myself doubting that it was as bad as I remembered. Looking back at my own words, my frantic handwriting, and the tear stained pages made me realize that it was every bit as bad as I recalled. One word of caution, if you are going to keep a journal be sure that your PDh will not find it.

GettingOOTF · January 05, 2021, 07:59:51 AM

I had the same conversation with my ex about why he treated friends and family do much better than he treated me. He gaslighted me in to believing I was an awful person who deserves it.

I believed him because I had no self esteem and was also deeply codependent.

Bunnyme · January 05, 2021, 09:38:58 AM

I echo about would they treat their friends this way? My SIL is one of the only ones in his family that see his deception for what it is (though, push comes to shove, she will still back him). She was telling me some of the lies he told her, and I disclosed the different (and still untrue) versions of the same story that he was telling me. She asked me, "Isnt it insulting? I mean, if he weren't your husband...if you just met him and he acted like this, would you even want to be friends with him?" Big eye opener for me. The answer is a resounding no. Even without physical abuse, why would I stay with someone I wouldnt even choose as a friend?

victoriousladyJj · January 05, 2021, 10:46:58 AM

Quote from: Starboard Song on January 04, 2021, 04:54:46 PM
I think you can proceed with confidence and an easy heart.

It is not the case that we have a romantic relationship with everyone in the world, only rejecting a few bad apples. What we do is have romantic relationships with almost nobody, when you think about it, accepting only the treasured ones that really help us to thrive. So we needn't justify the decision to not be with someone: the burden of proof goes the other way.

I know many women who are smart, kind, productive, funny, entertaining, and interesting, but whom I'd not date. Any serious relationship, if it is to last, has to be something special. That means it is quite all right to not be with someone for, really, any little reason.

Now, you've actually gotten married, so the bar is raised a good deal. But (1) you don't have kids and (2) you do have a spouse whom you suspect has a personality disorder. I think it is great to determine early on, when you aren't decades in, that the situation just isn't right for you.

I would never directly tell a member to dump someone, or to not dump someone. But you've made the call and are wondering whether you gave up too soon. I don't think so.

thank you so much for this. I really needed to hear this.

victoriousladyJj · January 05, 2021, 10:49:32 AM

Quote from: Bunnyme on January 05, 2021, 09:38:58 AM
I echo about would they treat their friends this way? My SIL is one of the only ones in his family that see his deception for what it is (though, push comes to shove, she will still back him). She was telling me some of the lies he told her, and I disclosed the different (and still untrue) versions of the same story that he was telling me. She asked me, "Isnt it insulting? I mean, if he weren't your husband...if you just met him and he acted like this, would you even want to be friends with him?" Big eye opener for me. The answer is a resounding no. Even without physical abuse, why would I stay with someone I wouldnt even choose as a friend?

you're absolutely right! At this point, knowing what I know about him I wouldn't even be friends with him. The hard part is the façade he puts on to the world. Everyone thinks he is a nice guy and they tell me how lucky I am to have him. Its really crazy how PDs are able to hide who they really are so well.