Constantly claiming they are victimized

[JollyJazz]

Hi All,

I'm currently processing the end of a unhealthy friendship. As part of this, and my general healing / growth, I'm identifying all the 'red flag' for next time.

One big one with this particular 'friend' was always being a 'victim' and not really taking responsibility for her own choices. I fell into the care taker role, (I'm working on this!!!) because she seemed so sad, forlorn. I started to realise there was a bit more to some ot her victim stories, and get some distance, she criticised others a lot and also seemed dismissive of some of the things I was concerned about (in my own life) or did for her. The real fireworks came when I started to set a few boundaries, it was actually just three quite small things, but about not sharing very private information...

I know I am right in getting distance. I just feel sad, I really want healthy relationships.

I also feel bad for this person, even though she treated me badly/abusively in fact, I feel really good about completely and permanently cutting off contact. I just still feel sad. I also feel annoyed that I am now being smeared by her - after I spent so much time listening to her sob stories (which I now think were could have been about reasonable people...). Anyway, I am just processing it all!

[notrightinthehead]

What helps me - I cling to the my stuff/your stuff and the 50% rule.
I find it very painful when another person talks badly about me,  it helps me a bit to tell myself that I cannot control what another person speaks about me nor what others choose to believe about me. Still, it hurts and I allow myself time to feel that pain and try to comfort myself.
There is nothing wrong with being a kind and compassionate person and you can extend that wonderful trait to yourself too.

[clara]

I had a NPD friend who trashed literally everyone he'd ever known who he no longer associated with.  There was always something about them he'd either never liked, never trusted etc. even though one month before they'd been the best of...   Didn't matter--friends, co-workers, romantic partners.  They all got their reputations "tarnished" thanks to his grievances, because it was never his fault.  It was always them, never him.

I generally believe, and I'm fairly confident in this, is that those others who hear his comments are taking them with a grain of salt. PDs cannot hide their behavior from others forever.  Other people soon figure them out, and don't take what they say seriously. 

[pianissimo]

I don't know if this helps but I'm having a problem with a colleague at work. And, with this one, I did my best to sustain a healthy relationship. She tried to be friends with me but she didn't feel right, so I kept distance.  At work, there is always drama around this colleague. Despite my reservations about her, I tried to support her point when I thought she was right, but I was also honest with her when I thought she was the one who was at fault.  For a while, it seemed like we were doing OK. But, just the other day, we had an argument about something I did. She tried to explain why what I did was wrong by referring to a specific conversation we had two years ago that had nothing to do with our current situation. I reacted to that by defending myself for the things I said in the past. In the end, I actually thought she had a right to ask for what she was asking for, but I felt that it was unfair that she was unloading all her anger about what happened to her in the past (that I had nothing to do with) on me. When I ended the conversation, I was feeling angry with myself, rather than her, for making that mistake.

So, I suppose for a person with NPD, it doesn't matter what you do. If you are making them feel bad about themselves, you are at fault. If they try to be friends with you, for a while, they will conceal their anger to look nice to you.  For years, you think you have disagreements but all is fine. But, no, they are quietly taking note of the times you disagree with them. They wait until some point that you take a wrong step, and that's when they hold you responsible for everything you did that annoyed them in the past. If you are a normal person, their strong reaction will take you by surprise because you moved on from the past conflicts. If you are empathetic, you will agree with them about their point that the step was wrong. If you admit your mistake, they will hear what they want to hear that "Aha, you admit that you were wrong all this time!". If you do the opposite and not admit your mistake, you will feel terrible regardless, because the person is right about the wrong step, and you didn't give them any resolution.

In my case, I will not be able to avoid this person. We carpool to work, so I might have to see her again. I'm pretty sure she will talk about what I did to anybody who pays attention to her. It will be embarrassing for me. I will hate hearing her talking about this. But, I'm kind of relying her ability to ruin things for herself. At this point, most people just hate her. Even if everybody took her side, I intend to not react. I think not reacting is powerful in these kinds of situations.

I don't know how relevant my experience is to yours, but this is something I have been going through these days. I'm still cross with myself for taking that wrong step, also for letting my guard down.

P.S. I just want to add that writing about this helped me feel better. I was thinking of moving near work to avoid carpooling with her. Now I feel like I can take the ride. I also feel less guilty about the disagreement we had. I will obviously not repeat my action, but, writing the situation like this made me realize the whole argument was not about what I did. If it was, she would not have kept going on and on about the things that happened years ago.

[IRedW77]

Reading all of these, especially pianissimo gives me this image of PD's in my head.

I just picture them all walking around wearing a giant invisible cape that trails behind them. No one else can see it. It's gigantic. They walk down the middle of the road and it trails over both sidewalks.

First off, they feel entitled to walk in the middle of the road, whether there are cars there or not. Everyone can see how strange that behavior is. The PD is righteously angry about all of the cars in their way, but the drivers kind of feel bad for the PD and move carefully around her.

Meanwhile this cape is dragging and everyone is always stepping on it. Every time someone walks on it the PD's head gets jerked back and they get hurt. But they don't let on, and no one sees them get hurt. They save that all up and record it. They'll use it against it anyone and everyone at any time they need to.

They dragged something under foot that no one could see, and of course it got stepped on! Once the PD tells you what you did you can see it, and how they got hurt, and that you did step on their cape.

You feel bad, because you see that you were oblivious and your behavior did hurt them. But the damn cape was invisible, and they dragged it right under your feet! They almost wanted you to step on it.

[ShyTurtle]

Figuring out those red flags is a good exercise to do for yourself for sure! I made one after I left my ex and shared it with my therapist. She had more to add to my list and it was really helpful. If you're interested I could share it with you. Although it's geared towards a romantic relationship, I'm sure there's stuff on there that is relevant for all relationships.

Not taking responsibility for ones own self is a big one though. When people chronically blame everyone around them for their woes, it makes it pretty clear that eventually they'll have the same opinion about you.

[pianissimo]

a giant invisible cape

Great analogy, it's really hard to tell how you offend them, but you can see it when they are offended. What makes it worse is that they demand their giant invisible cape to be seen, yet, they break your leg if you get in their way, and if you cry out "ouch!", they shame you for not being tough enough.

[JollyJazz]

Hi All,

I was out hiking in the beautiful forest on my last few days of my holiday. I'm back now and got the replies! Thank you so much!

Notrightinthehead, thank you for your thoughts on this  Yes I've literally been telling myself very similar things in the last few days, that I've got my 50%, and I've been focusing on self compassion. It does feel hurtful to be unfairly slandered, although on the bright side, I don't actually know the people I'm being smeared to. I'm glad to have gotten away from this damaging friendship relatively early in the piece.

Clara: Thanks for this. yes I also notice the tendency to constantly blame others, it's really quite a disempowering position because it doesn't allow for personal growth and development. It's all short term gratification! I agree with you, I do think people 'twig' about PD's in the end...

[JollyJazz]

Hi pianissimo, Shyturtle and IRedW77,

pianissimo, I'm sorry to hear that you had this experience! I wouldn't beat yourself up so much though! I'm trying to treat all these things as learning experiences, and it sounds like you did a lot of things well (particularly getting distance from someone toxic).

Shyturtle, thanks for this. Yes it would be great to see your list of red flags, maybe we could start a new thread?
Self responsibility is a huge one, I agree! Lol!

IRedW77, yes the cape analogy is perfect, kind of like a cape of entitlement! I'm imagining a royalstyle one... acting the victim at all times is actually very entitled, and especially if they believe this gives them the right to abuse others!

[DJR]

My NSIL is currently going through a discard phase of her H (who is the brother of my H.) According to her, she has been a tragic victim of her marriage.

I think being the victim is linked to grandiose behaviour. The NPD thinks they are worthy of the absolute BEST, and when they get the same as everyone else, they then think they are a victim. Eg: NSIL thinks she is a victim because her H did not earn enough money for her to live a lavish lifestyle, but we actually know he had an average wage and they lived a normal lifestyle.

I also think being the victim is linked to projection. Everything below-board that the NPD does, they project and think the other person has done that to them.  Eg: NSIL claims she is a victim because she was a household slave of her marriage, and yet we know that it was actually her H that did all the chores.

[JollyJazz]

Hi DJR,

Thanks for this perspective!!! Yes it's actually very self absorbed... basically its often based on the assumption that they can do no wrong, and that therefore if anyone else has done something that has displeased them, its the other person's fault always...