How do you do it?

[Poppy]

So I'm trying to have less expectations of DH and when I do have an expectation that I felt was disappointed, to... just not talk about it (because it only results in an argument, me criticizing, him defending or lying,  raised voices around the kids and he will just repeat the behavior anyway).

It sounds ridiculous when I write it down like that, but is there any other way? Is it not about radical acceptance and through that stop the arguments as well?

I don't want to argue and criticise all the time. I don't want that tension in the house anymore, especially not for my kids.

What I've noticed in myself is the reason I want to talk about my hurt feelings, my disappointment or anger about another broken promise or lack of communication or lack of initiative or positivity or empathy or whatever.... is really because I'm hoping he will understand. That he will hear me, validate me and ultimately try and change.

But that's just not gonna happen.
I need to really accept that fact. To know it, feel it, truly believe it. And why wouldn't I, after all the years he's shown me exactly that?!

So how do you do it?
How do you accept that in a marriage and be OK?

How do you still also have enjoyable times with the family?
How do you not turn sour?
How do you shut some part of yourself off and not let it affect other parts of your emotions and relationships?

Thanks for reading this far if you did... I'd love to hear from you and how you're handling a marriage that requires "commitment to working on it" 

[Poison Ivy]

I'm divorced (five years this May). I reached "radical acceptance" only after my children left home for college, which is to say that when they were still at home, I was often quite cranky toward my then husband, their dad. In some ways, my situation was easier than it is for many unhappy spouses. My husband started a new "job" a few days after our younger child started college, and the job consisted of living with and being his parents' caregiver in a city 150 miles away from our home. So, first I had to get used to being alone most of the time, and while I was doing that, I realized that my husband was never again going to have my back, emotionally or physically, and that the financial support was going to be fragile, at best. But being separated made it easier to not have "fights"; he ghosted me when he was gone and so even though I still felt upset a lot initially, I couldn't expect to hear back from him if I communicated with him, so I learned to not contact him except for things that seemed really important to me.

I get along okay with my ex. I still regret that he withdrew from me and our children. I sometimes pity him, but I try really hard to not get into conversations in which I provide him with any affirmation for his self-victimization.

[Matteblak]

Hi Poppy,

I am where you are now. The weird thing is, I've known inside somewhere that it was NEVER going to get better, but when you have so many experiences with normal-ish humans, it reinforces the idea in your mind that it COULD get better (it WON'T).

My T brought up that it will probably be like this forever (I am a believer seeing a Christian counselor), and reminded me that I am called to obey Christ even in the midst of the misery. it is HARD. I want to fight, argue, use reason (ha!), anything to fix the situation. Also, I'm codependent, so my coping strategies have been MISERABLE through all this. He reminded me that I am 100% responsible for my percentage of the arguments. That was convicting and empowering.

I have started setting boundaries, speaking up for myself, working on the parts of me that need to change, and recognizing that God has me here, now, and that my circumstances will either stay the same or change, but while it is like this, I have a chance to practice patience, kindness, politeness, perseverance, etc. The weird thing is, I am a much BETTER person with everyone else because of it.

I know there wasn't necessarily an answer to your question here, but I do want you to know that there is hope. I used to hope that my relationship would end so the abuse would stop, but I realized that I was being exactly like my PD, thinking that fixing everything around me would fix me...it won't. Getting to work on my own sin, spending more time in prayer, reading about the promises of God in his word, and trusting that His ways and thoughts are far above mine is the thing that is keeping me going. He is faithful.

Praying for you.

[BettyGray]

Hi Poppy,

I don't know much about your story with DH, but it feels familiar just from reading this post.

Lowered expectations are a slippery slope. On the one hand, it can cushion our pattern of disappointment. On the other, it's not really that good a feeling and isn't the healthiest way to deal with what seems like a lingering problem. And you'll probably still be disappointed.
Maybe try writing down what your current expectations are. Write whatever comes to mind. Doing this may help put into perspective if they are ones that should just be basic/bare minimum or if you're being unrealistic. Step away for a few days. Come back and reevaluate the list.

We women get very frustrated because we feel like we are just asking for basic fairness & equality. It really should not be that big of a deal. No matter how nicely we ask, a lot of men will just get instantly defensive. That's when they stop listening. Especially if they have a critical mother for whom nothing is ever good enough. They say women are too sensitive, but in my experience, men are more sensitive and unwilling to look at their flaws, much less change them because we ask. They can turn the most innocent thing into a criticism of them, instantly making us the bad guys. I think that this is a defense mechanism and a way of stonewalling to avoid looking deeper into themselves. Even good men fall into this trap in order to protect their fragility in the face of emotional repsonsibility.

One thing i know for certain is criticizing doesn't work. Yelling doesn't work. Pleading, offering suggestions, complaining - will get you exactly nowhere. Another thing I realized over many years of trying all of the above and failing is that I was too focused on him. I also realized that I had a difficult time regulating my emotions, and that half of the fights happened because I let things get to me and exploded when I just couldn't take it anymore. After years of disappointment and banging my head against the wall, I got to the point of asking myself "why am I doing this?" Things got realllly bad with us, and my therapist suggested bringing him to a few sessions. Luckily he obliged and it was eye-opening. She drew a diagram showing how we react to pain as individuals. When I am hurt, I am overwhelmed by emotion and want to talk it out. I feel unheard, so I head in one direction. He is more stoic and intellectually inclined. When confronted, he tends to shut down and protect himself (which feels like a horrible betrayal), hide his emotions and feel threatened by my anger. He heads in the opposite direction. There's no way we're going to meet in the middle. We needed to understand how our different reactions to emotional pain come into play when we have conflicts. The goal was that, by understanding these facts, we could understand why we were failing. I wanted him to feel my pain and react with understanding and support. He wanted to solve problems without emotion, keep things on the rational level, avoid pain and not talk.

The other eye-opener was her explaining how strong emotions overwhelm our ability to be rational and think straight. Our brains  brcome flooded with cortisol, which is very dangerous, and rational thinking is shut down. A good argument for NEVER talking about big issues when you're upset. You'll just get more upset and angry. I learned that once I start yelling, he stops listening. Of course all of this is harder if you have C-PTSD.

My suggestion to you, hard as it seems, is to focus on yourself. It might seem counterproductive, but it works. I'm not sure what radical acceptance means to you. It doesn't mean accepting abuse, hoping things will change.  In Al-Anon, they talk about the concept of "detaching with love "  from an addict. This means that you still care, but you stop trying to solve their problems or dictate to them how they can be better.

“ Detachment is neither kind nor unkind. It does not imply judgment or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching. It is simply a means that allows us to separate ourselves from the adverse effects that another person’s [alcoholism] can have upon our lives.”  You may not be in a situation with alcohol being the problem, but people can be addicted to other things - for example, starting fights to avoid dealing with uncomfortable emotions. Or procrastination. Or denial, refusal of accountability.

It sounds like a lot of energy is being put into trying to solve the issues using tactics that have been unsuccessful in the past. I suggest not wasting your time. If something escalates, try your best not to react. If he becomes angry, say "I refuse to let this escalate." It has the effect of taking a stand, taking control, and showing respect for yourself.

Another tactic that has actually worked. Whenever I have something irritating me and want to scream at him, I say instead:
"I want to talk about something, but I need you to promise me you won't get mad." If he gets mad anyway, remind him that he promised, and shut down the conversation. Go do soemething else. If he doesn't get mad, stay calm (always stay calm, annoyed as you may be) and express in no more than a few sentences, in a normal voice, what your concern is. Ask him if he understands what you just said and have him repeat his interpretation of it. This will reinforce your stance or reveal where the communication is failing. If it seems he "gets it," let him know how much it means to you. You can never praise enough. If he doesn't get it, reiterate what you meant and have him repeat it back until you're on the same page.

Other suggestions:

-when you feel the need to criticize, instead offer praise for something good he has done. You can even lead with it - the old flies with honey thing. Then he might be open to listening to you. "Thank you for...it really made me happy when you..." Sad that ego stroking works, but it does. It's ridiculous that we have to treat them with kid gloves, but often, we do.

- Always remind him you are on the same team and that you have the same goals (if you do).

- Hugs break the ice. It's hard to fight when you're expressing love.

- Be wary of resentment. It can consume you.

- Ignore temper tantrums, passive aggressive behavior or comments, or any other surly behavior. It's bait. Don't take it.

I realized also that people treat us the way we allow them to. Understand that if you're concerned about his disrespecting you, you may not be showing enough respect for yourself. So learn to respect yourself. In time, he will take notice and show more respect. You don't really need validation from anyone but yourself. You may seek it, but it's really your task to love and respect yourself first. Go on with your life as much as you can. He may come around because it will seem like you're moving on without him. And if you keep living your life and wind up realizing you're better off with out him, you've still worked on  yourself, which is never a bad thing.

Again, I don't know your situation or if your husband is PD. If he is, I'm not sure if any of this will work. If he isn't, you have a chance.

Take care of yourself and your kids.

[notrightinthehead]

You have been given excellent advice already. I just want to add, when you write:

.... is really because I'm hoping he will understand. That he will hear me, validate me and ultimately try and change.

you say it all. You want him to change. You live with the assumption that you can make him change.  Try to work on that. Try to accept that he will stay exactly the same.  Radical acceptance means that you wholeheartedly accept reality.  That you stop lying to yourself and pretending what happens is not happening.

[Boat Babe]

All of the above is good advice. I would add that you can't shut yourself down selectively. If you manage to "armour" yourself against being hurt by negative behaviours you will find that the good stuff then also fails to register. That's how it works for me anyway.

It's tough and I feel for you.

[GentleSoul]

Hello Poppy

I am in a very similar place to you. I can see my uPD/alcoholic husband will not get any better in his behaviours. 

It suddenly struck me one day.   I think I already knew but had not accepted it.

[Mary]

I've learned a lot from Leslie Vernick's work. She advises to stop trying so hard to be a good wife and accept that it's not your fault the marriage is bad. It just is. I enjoy aspects that are good about it like kids, a 2nd income, some surface friendship etc. But I look to God and others for deep emotional attachment and enjoyment in life.

[Cascade]

"So how do you do it?
How do you accept that in a marriage and be OK?

How do you still also have enjoyable times with the family?
How do you not turn sour?
How do you shut some part of yourself off and not let it affect other parts of your emotions and relationships?" 

      It took me many years to accept my marriage as it is. I'm okay with it most of the time now because I have other good things in my life, like good relationships with our adult children, loving pets, hobbies, and my faith in God. I still have some enjoyable times with my family though not many. I struggle with not being bitter at times still. The thing I've shut off is sharing many of my opinions, and hiding some of who I am when I'm with my husband. 

[Mary]

 

[CreativeCat]

Some great advice here which has been good for me to read.

I would say start with emotional regulation and soothing yourself when you don't get what you need from your husband. Go militant on the self love and self care.

Then look at self development - read lots of books ( I love the books boundaries and Safe people by Townsend and anything by Brene brown). Use this to get in touch with your full array of feelings including shame and disgust. For me, eventually I just couldn't hide from what was going on, I couldn't lie to myself anymore, and I just couldn't tolerate abusive behaviour - it disgusted me. It helped me reach my limit and  I couldn't help but put in a boundary m. Subsequently I think my husband is changing, but this wasn't my goal in the end. My goal was to look after myself with as much nurturing and love as a great mother would.

Sending you strength.