PD's complaining about "insults

[DetachedAndEngaged]

A common behavior of PDs I've noticed is them objecting to being "insulted" when their behavior is reflected to them, no matter the terms, tone of voice or body language involved.

On a whim I just looked up a couple of words in the dictionary.

Describe: to convey in words the appearance, nature, attributes, etc., of something

Insult: to offend or demean

Then it hit me: a description of offensive behavior is indistinguishable from an insult.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[Frankie14]

Correct, PD's find it insulting when called out on their nonsense, caught in lies by omission, caught in outright lies, my PDH will say 'nice jab' or 'always a put down' and I will only have literally reiterated something he told me he would DO, never did and/or was caught in lies of omission, or he was caught doing something he said he never would again (drunk, racking up debt, etc). 

Because he is always lying, I no longer speak to him about anything but our kids...b/c every conversation ends in, "NICE JAB, you hate me, you can't stand me, you want me gone."  Like a toddler..and I don't engage in conversations with toddlers..

[DetachedAndEngaged]

Yes, you are right.

Once you realize the problem lies in their fundamental personality habits and ultimately has nothing to do with the communication model involved, detachment is the only solution.

[Janeite V]

I wish I had learned this much earlier. When it comes to narcissism at least, I suppose telling the truth, even gently, is a challenge to the false image and therefore an "insult." Back in those days I still hoped that I'd be the one to get through and help them see what was causing so much of their suffering (as well as those around them).

Sometimes I even see some narcissists in groups like these claiming to be oppressed and stigmatised, saying things like "so we aren't worthy of love?" It's amazing how many people seem to fall for that line! They fail to see that it's based on observable behaviours, not prejudice. If they aren't displaying the behaviour in question then they have no need to be offended by others trying to get support in a world basically run by narcissists and psychopaths.

When communicating with my N-relative, they would always be hypersensitive to the tone of voice I used. One time, after saying in a very neutral voice that others are allowed to do things their own way, the narcissist claimed I was "viciously attacking" them. On the other hand, when I successfully disengage, I'm "scared of conflict" and "too passive."

[BeautifulCrazy]

"I wish I had learned this much earlier....telling the truth, even gently, is a challenge to the false image and therefore an "insult.""

If I had only known then what I know now!

[LemonLime]

I wish I had learned this much earlier. When it comes to narcissism at least, I suppose telling the truth, even gently, is a challenge to the false image and therefore an "insult." Back in those days I still hoped that I'd be the one to get through and help them see what was causing so much of their suffering (as well as those around them).

Sometimes I even see some narcissists in groups like these claiming to be oppressed and stigmatised, saying things like "so we aren't worthy of love?" It's amazing how many people seem to fall for that line! They fail to see that it's based on observable behaviours, not prejudice. If they aren't displaying the behaviour in question then they have no need to be offended by others trying to get support in a world basically run by narcissists and psychopaths.

When communicating with my N-relative, they would always be hypersensitive to the tone of voice I used. One time, after saying in a very neutral voice that others are allowed to do things their own way, the narcissist claimed I was "viciously attacking" them. On the other hand, when I successfully disengage, I'm "scared of conflict" and "too passive."

Oh yes, it's a no-win.   My sib has said "Oh, always the villain, am I?" when I've said the most neutral thing.   And if I back off or go grayrock, she comes at me with claws out.   Sarcasm, veiled accusations.  There truly is no winning.
I've finally come to the point where I will have to say "Why would you want to be in relationship with someone you find so unpleasant and evil?"
If she gives me a chance I will say that.   Truly there is nothing logical left to say.

She is so much more ill than I ever could have imagined.  I do feel empathy for her, but also for me.   It is sad that it is so hopeless.

[Janeite V]

LemonLime, it is really sad indeed to witness. However I am glad you are being empathetic towards yourself, too. As the toolbox states, we didn't cause it, we can't cure it and we can't control it. You deserve your peace of mind too.

I think your comment is a logical one. It makes no sense to try to maintain a relationship with someone you believe to be fundamentally evil. But from the sounds of it, she will probably twist it back onto you. She might reply with something like "I want to save you from yourself!"

[Aeon]

I'm so glad that someone brought up this one. I thought my unPDH was somewhat unique in this respect.
Anything that can be interpreted as criticism is an insult and therefore the communication is ended by him.
It kinda seems reasonable on the surface but in practice you have to tell someone about the bad thing they did to hurt you before you can ask them to stop.
Telling them about the bad thing cannot happen for them. It truly is mind-boggling to witness.

Congrats to those with compassion for the PD, I'm having a tough time with it.

[DetachedAndEngaged]

Sorry for taking so long to reply, Aeon. I only check in here occasionally.

Not only it is perfectly fine not to feel much or any compassion for a PD, I think it can be a healthy step in establishing the necessary emotional, intellectual and physical distance.

One of the most helpful things a friend once said to me about dealing with a PD, when I was just learning about PDs, was "You don't always have to be the bigger person." That really hit home with me and enabled me to stop putting so much effort into seeing things from the PD's perspective, empathizing and looking for their good attributes. It was important for me to focus on their seriously messed up flaws and ignore their good parts, so I could simply walk away and establish NC.

Looking on the bright side can blind us to monstrous behavior.

It sounds like you're at a place right now in your growth and development where focusing on the bad crap could be enormously beneficial.

There are billions of other people on the planet who can provide compassion for the PD in your life, it doesn't have to be you.

Maybe one day you'll develop a healthy compassionate stance towards them. Maybe you won't. Who cares?

My motto re: the PD's I know and avoid is "I feel badly for them... from a distance."

[AlisonWonder]

I like "....so, the wedding's off?"  for just after they rave at you.

[tragedy or hope]

my unpdh went to get his hair trimmed. Correcting his new barber about an historical fact; to the point of proving it, while in the chair (over the internet on his phone), got him the shortest, unattractive, most unlikely style haircut he has ever received. I say... Touche!
He came home baffled as to why the barber cut his hair so short. He is not capable of putting the two together. Smuggly he told the story of his being right about setting the barber straight.
When I said, someone you just met does not want to be proven wrong, it was his shop and his barber chair. Maybe he felt insulted. unpdh said nothing about it. only that he was not going back to that barber again.
His complaints for the last week are about the barber and his clippers. He cannot associate anything he said or did to the circumstances.

[losingmyself]

Funny that this came up for me today.
I am currently getting the ST, because I dared point out that he's also not perfect. It's not just me.
He said words, faced away from me, in the car as usual. There's no way a person could have understood what he said. I said "What?"
That opened up a whole teasing of how deaf I am and taunting, "what?? what??" "God, you're so deaf. Oh, deaf one"
I said "Well, maybe if you could speak clearly so I could understand you, it would help. Don't just look away and mumble something"
He has way worse hearing than I do.
Anyway, he thought about it and decided to stop speaking to me.
Whatever.
Ahh...quiet.
Last night he was very hyper and stayed up very late. It's weird how these things occur close to each other.

[blunk]

When I said, someone you just met does not want to be proven wrong, it was his shop and his barber chair. Maybe he felt insulted. unpdh said nothing about it. only that he was not going back to that barber again.

I couldn't help but chuckle to myself when reading this...thinking the barber was feeling just the same...I'll make sure he's not coming back here again.

Simple rule of thumb, you don't mess with people who handle your food, or handle sharp objects that close to your head!

[WinterStar]

When I said, someone you just met does not want to be proven wrong, it was his shop and his barber chair. Maybe he felt insulted. unpdh said nothing about it. only that he was not going back to that barber again.

I couldn't help but chuckle to myself when reading this...thinking the barber was feeling just the same...I'll make sure he's not coming back here again.

Simple rule of thumb, you don't mess with people who handle your food, or handle sharp objects that close to your head!

But he was right. The barber should be thanking him! 

[Cat of the Canals]

My husband recently had a big blow-up with his unPD mother. Over the course of this, he ended up talking about a few instances of outright abuse when he was a child. She of course went full waif mode. He told her, "I'm not bringing this up to hurt you, mom."

Her response: "Oh, I think you are! I really do! You are just saying this to hurt me!"



I told him, "If she really thinks you're the type of person who would do that, why would she even WANT a relationship with you? I wouldn't want someone in my life who does that."

[Cat of the Canals]

That opened up a whole teasing of how deaf I am and taunting, "what?? what??" "God, you're so deaf. Oh, deaf one"
I said "Well, maybe if you could speak clearly so I could understand you, it would help. Don't just look away and mumble something"

I mean, what if you did have bad hearing? Yikes.

[losingmyself]

Cat, that's a whole other story. a few years ago he made an appointment for me with a hearing-aid person to prove how deaf I am.
I have perfect hearing. That response to the Dr was " I guess we'll have to take her to a shrink to figure out why she's ignoring me" Something like that, I can't remember the exact words.
Good times..........

[Hilltop]

Yep I cannot bring up hurtful behaviour by my parents without them getting upset and taking it as an insult and tell me that I am being difficult.  So they will insult me directly and if I was to tell them that it was an insult then they won't accept that and say they are hurt by me saying I am hurt.  Its crazy making and the reason that I don't say anything any more and have walked away.  I am not even talking about something that may be just said the wrong way, I am talking about direct insults at me.  If I dare point out it was an insult my mother will turn around and be hurt that I pointed out it was an insult.  Even typing it is baffling.

With my MIL she ignored every one of my birthdays until one year many years into marriage I finally didn't go see her for her birthday, first one I had missed.  Oh my goodness, didn't she have a tanty about that one.  I treated her exactly as she had treated me and yet she was so hurt and enraged about it.  It was priceless though when I calmly told her that she hadn't contacted me for any of my birthdays so I figured it was acceptable considering she had done the exact same thing to me. She sat there with her eyes wide, her mouth open and had nothing to say.  I didn't hear another peep out of her about it.  Her face was priceless though especially after the tantrum she'd done.  That sort of behaviour was ok for others but deeply insulting for her, so egotistical.

[Dandelion]

I think relationships for PDs are seen more as pragmatically existing in the moment.  Some would use the term “transactional”, even if it’s just for some company. Rather than a relationship being meaningful in its own right, if you see what I mean.  Hence one reason I think why bad behaviour or ST is fine and dandy to them, as hurt feelings or the bigger picture has no real deeper meaning for them. Plus of course “winning”.

[Dandelion]

When I think of the small things my mother fell out with people about ...

My father - an unpaid £400 loan
she made to him.  She had no more contact with him again and he died a few years later.

A friend of 50 years - she accused her friend of shortchanging her by £10 at a restaurant meal, and left a rude message on her phone demanding it back.

Her sister- for not answering the door when my NM went round unannounced and there was no answer.  Was she even there, I asked?  Of course she was  (no evidence at all and sister said she never heard her).  Never saw or spoke to her sister again (she died 10 years later)

A nephew for not cleaning the cooker properly before he left her flat.  She refused to speak to him ever again.

And so on. 

Me.  So many fallings out over trivia over the years.   Regular insanely abusive episodes for no reason.  I've been NC for 6 months since the last one.

So, on the slightest pretext.  Money figures a lot.  But also a lot of imaginary slights, insults and trivia.