Getting Married against the wishes of my NMom in a Collectivist Culture

[SakaiSama]

To give you a bit of background, I'm a late 20s Arab guy living alone and working in Dubai, away from family. My relationship with my mom had been problematic ever since my adolescence since there always seemed to be this battle for 'control', when in retrospect I've realised that me getting my autonomy and taking responsibility for things around the house was perceived by her as a loss of control caused by rebelliousness and a lack of respect towards her. This is made worse by the fact that my father was an alcoholic who died in my teens, and didn't really have that much of a role in my childhood, meaning that there was no one to balance out her rage and overbearing nature. Don't get me wrong, I actually think that having such a regimented experience during my formative years actually helped me out after having lost my father, but ultimately, after reading a lot about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I have enough reason to believe that she is definitely on that spectrum, and you'll see why the more you read this.

We have major differences in social values, religion, and attitudes towards money. With values and religion, I understand where it comes from because we grew up in different eras and environments, and her generation was affected by a tight grip of Islamic extremist teachings within the education system, whilst I was exposed to a more western mindset, through books, the internet and other media. I've been called 'too western' and that I've abandoned my 'roots' because I don't partake in common Arab rituals. She'd also noticed that I don't pray/go to the mosque anymore like I used to, but what she doesn't know is that I'm a closet atheist, and if she were to find that out, she'd likely be depressed for the rest of her life and think that she had failed in raising me and be sent to hell for raising an 'unbeliever'. Money tends to be a major source of conflict as she thinks I don't spend enough on myself to maintain some sort of unearned (and highly financially reckless) social status with expensive clothes and other cosmetic things. On top of that she has almost no sense of financial planning and is relying on pension drawdowns until they run out. So when my younger siblings start working, she'll need to rely on all of us for financial support.

To this day, her controlling nature leads to my siblings always having to ask for 'permission' to do things, even if they were as small as even buying a shirt or whether it's the right time to go get a haircut. They've reached a point where walking on eggshells is so normal that whenever I rock the boat and point out controlling behaviour, I'm made out to be the bad guy during her disproportionate reactions. I see this even with my extended family where she would frame something that she wants us to do as something for our collective benefit, when in reality it's to benefit her. If I don't budge, no matter how big or small the issue, even though my family members know that she's being unreasonable, they pull me to the side and just give her what she wants because it's easier and won't cause a scene.

Lots of clashes would also happen when we used to go on vacations as a family, and she'd leave most of the organisation up to me but nothing would ever be up to her standard in terms of where we'd go, stay, eat. All she'd want to do is shop and eat, and whilst we eat, if there's bad service she'd make it a rule to talk down towards the service staff. Even something as simple as just using public transport is seen as 'beneath' her. So I'd made it a rule not to travel with her again, for my own sake.

Despite all this my siblings and other family members tell me that, whilst I'm gone, she only brings up positive things about me to other people, and paints me to be some golden child for having been the first in the family to study abroad, and get a good paying job at a reputable company outside our home country. Some part of me thinks that this is purely to gloat and take credit for raising me, and in my view I've turned out the way I am despite the way she raised me.

Now, onto the main event. A few years ago I had met the love of my life, an Indian-American girl, and made the decision to marry her recently, and she'll be moving here soon. Nmom blew it way out of proportion when I told her around half a year ago, since I was seeking her blessing, as is customary where I'm from. When I mentioned her ethnicity, all hell broke loose. Culturally speaking, at least within my context, it's taboo to marry from outside your nationality and/or religious sect, and because South Asians tend to occupy blue-collar jobs in our society, there's also a class element behind the stigma which makes it worse. As a result, I've been shunned and alienated by my family, close cousins and other relatives included, because she's managed to victimize herself and paint me as the villain who's only doing this to ruin her reputation, despite 'all the things she'd done for us'. She'd even staged an intervention where my older cousins and an uncle tried to talk me out of it, but all they mentioned was riddled in racism, and belittling my ability to make my own decisions, and that ultimately I should do what my mother says, saying that I'm endangering her mental health, and that I should just bite the bullet and continue things with my S.O. until it fizzles out. What's even crazier about this whole situation, is that my parents went through the exact same thing since my mom was from a different background than my dads, which led him to be alienated from his family for decades.

I would've liked to have had my mom included in all of this, but she's been closing herself off and ignoring my calls for a few months now, and even when I went back home to visit over the holidays, she had ignored me for a whole week, and then blew up right before I left when I confronted her again about this. Accusations are always hurled at me, and the flying monkeys thrown at me are people I would've thought to be my closest family members. During every conversation I have with them about my SO, they barely let me talk about her and end up bringing examples about how things went wrong in their life, about how they had to follow what their parents said when they fell in love with people that they 'weren't meant to be with', and about how whenever someone in our family ended up doing what they wanted, things turned out badly for the both of them. Nothing based on compatibility, shared life goals, career choices, how long I'd been with her, the tests that our relationship had been put through, none of it.

With all of this going on, it's put a lot of stress on my wife and I, thankfully not to the point of contemplating ending the relationship prior to getting married, but still enough for it to leave a scar. At the beginning, my wife was very understanding about the situation since she had come from a similarly conservative background. But at the end of the day, no one would be fully able to shake off not being accepted into their in-law's family. There'd been a lot of uncertainty, especially with COVID and having to do long distance for a while, but thankfully things have turned out for the better and we ended up having our ceremony over video chat! At this point I'm trying to minimise the amount of damage this can have on her, as she's been absolutely wonderful regarding this whole situation, and her family have been nothing but supportive, understanding and welcoming despite the circumstances. The goal now is to deal with the fact that my family is willing to go this far over a decision I made that affects my life, not theirs, and that ultimately this is someone that I'm going to be living with and spending my life with, not them.

All in all, the way I feel about this ranges from:
- Sad that this is what my wife has married into, a family that knows almost nothing about her but thinks of her as lesser than them, with no evaluation of what she's like as a human being.
- Disappointment that Nmom cares more about what society thinks than her own son's wishes, desires and long term plans, and compatibility with his partner.
- Angry at the fact that she doesn't see her hypocrisy, after having gone through it herself with her own marriage, and that she's driven my loved ones away from me.
- Hopeless and unwilling to accept that I would potentially have to cut myself off from my family if they take it that far, because I never saw myself away from them growing up, and actually was very close to my siblings until this happened.
- Drained and exhausted.

A few questions:
- How would you guys cope in a situation like this?
- How can I forgive or even reconcile that something like this can be done so easily?
- How do I live with the potential guilt of 'abandoning' my family, when in reality they're the ones that are closing the door to try and force me to end a relationship that means the world to me?
- Do I try and rebuild bridges with my siblings or wait until they calm down/change their minds? Whenever I try to they either wanna stay out of it and not take sides or paint me to be some selfish and rebellious son who makes things difficult for everyone else.

Apologies for the long read, but I thought the full picture would be necessary for a good understanding.

Tl;dr - got married to someone outside of my ethnicity, mom's flipped her marbles and alienated me from the family for the last few months.

[Danden]

Well, wow!  You certainly have a lot of stuff on your plate with this.  I had some of the same overall issues with my own mother.  When I was young, and in my twenties, I left home to go to graduate school for a Ph.D., but also to get away from my home, because of my mother's behavior towards me.  I came from a traditional culture and this was not to be done by a female, so it (and related issues) became a big point of conflict for many years of my younger life.  During my school years and after, I was not meeting a person of my own background with whom I felt myself compatible and could see myself having a life together.  Many of these potential matches were pushed upon me by my mother.  I knew it would be important to meet someone like this in order to continue to have a relationship with my family for the remainder of my life.  So that, plus my school obligations put a lot of pressure on me.  I met my husband at the age of 31 and got married.  He is the perfect match for me, as he is both from my own background, so acceptable to my parents (or so I thought) and a good match for me. 

Now we are married wth 3 children, and our children are grown.  What I have experienced with my family of origin is that the problems that were there are still there, and it doesn't matter who you marry.  My mother resents and envies me, and so does my sister.  Both of them suffer from an inferiority complex.  These problems were kept under the surface intermittently, and sometimes erupted, but some degree of stability was maintained.  After my father died many years ago, all of these issues came out in full force.  My husband is very successful financially, so one of the problems with them became "Danden and her husband think they are better than us".  That issue was always there, but it became a bigger issue.  I am sure that if I had married someone who was less successful financially, the problem would be "Poor Danden, they have little money, we must help them (and control them)".  Either way, I lose.  So you see, it is not really a matter of who you marry, it is a matter of the dysfunctional relationship with your family.  That is the root of the problem.

I experienced this reality after already marrying and I had several years of believing that my family system could be maintained.  In retrospect now, it seems to me this was an illusion, but maybe also a blessing.  After my father died, when I was in my 40s, I had to face the reality that my family relationships were not what I thought they were.  In your situation, it looks like you will have to make an initial big break with your family for the sake of your marriage.  That may be more difficult at your age.  It is very difficult to break with your family, with whom you are close.  It may are easier to do after your own family is well established.  And after you do this, things may never be the same.  Or things may get better in time, for you and for the rest of the family too.  There may be some members who will be relieved that you were the one to bring the truth to light.  There may be others who will entrench into the old beliefs and turn against you.  The only advice I can offer is when you go through the tough times, you will find out who your true friends are.  Unfortunately there is no way around this terrible truth, you must face it head on.  I wish you all be best.  Good luck and peace to you.

[SakaiSama]

Thanks for that reality check, Danden. The root of the problem is the dysfunctional relationship with my family, nothing else. Sucks to say it out loud, but hey, I guess that's what I'll have to face up front.

[notrightinthehead]

Welcome! You certainly seem to be very self aware and clear about the situation you are facing.

Have you read the Toolbox? I strongly recommend you employ some of the strategies when dealing with your mom/flying monkeys.

Congratulations to your wedding!  I hope you find happiness in spite of all the obstacles you have to overcome.

[Hepatica]

SakaiSama,

I feel your pain. And I feel for you wife as well. 

I don't know what to say, other than we cannot change other people, we can only work on ourselves. I am from North America and married a South American man. In Canada, the racism is more of a polite kind of racism. My parents did not do anything to make me feel that it was wrong to marry a man from another culture. But if it had been only one generation earlier, and it was my grandmother who had control, it would have been very different. For instance, she forbid my father to marry the love of his life, because the woman he loved was a Catholic, and my grandmother was Protestant. Seems so silly. It's so crazy that in one generation this kind of control has pretty much disappeared. I have never heard any of my peers being forbidden to marry the person they love. (That said, in the more fundamental, extreme Christian churches, control is still prevalent.)

I know it seems like a cliche nowadays, but we do love who we love. 

And when I think of my parents, my father gave up the love of his life because of my grandmother and instead he married my mother, a protestant. Let me tell you, I was not raised in a house of love. Hence me being here on this forum. My home was a house of practicality and conflict. I never saw my parents hold hands or kiss, not even once. In fact as the years went by, all I witnessed was negative between them, huge, scary resentment that at times looked like hatred. But they did not divorce. It's a very sad way to live. They are very unhappy people, and I wonder if they had married the ones they truly loved, would they be this unhappy?

I married the man I loved. And there is kindness and love between us. It is the best way to raise children.

I think it's interesting that in a very short time, you've experienced so much and re-evaluated how you were raised. Of course culture and tradition are beautiful things, but a house of control and anger, as your mother is behaving, is not good for anyone.

I think it's beautiful that you found a woman to love. I don't have any advice, but if my family had tried to control me and step between me and my husband, I do think i would have kept my distance and even gone no contact much sooner than I have.

It is a huge loss to lose family members. I know it is. I have lost so many for different reasons. But it is worse, I think and believe, to cave to control and racism and old value systems that hurt people, including ourselves.

This world cannot go backwards. We have to move toward love and inclusion and curiosity about all cultures, and we must honour our own well thought out choices.

It's okay to distance yourself from your family if they do not choose to accept and love your wife as you do. She is your family now. Protect what you have and rejoice in it. If anyone causes you grief and pain about your decision to love who you love, reevaluate if you choose to have them in your life.

Thank you for sharing your story.

[Hilltop]

As you say the problems were there from when you were an adolescent.  Your dad went against his family and was estranged from them for decades, was an alcoholic and there were obvious problems in their marriage.  These were problems and issues long before you decided to remove yourself from your religion or choose to marry someone from a different culture and religion.  You could have married within your own culture and religion but really the problems would still be there, just different issues.

Your mother needs control over you.  As you say she needs that control to make things go her own way, to secure finances from you.  This would have caused issues no matter who you married because your mother would have turned on any DIL as she is insecure.

Turn towards your own marriage and her family if they are supportive. Turn toward your friends.  Its hard when our families are so unsupportive.  I think there is a lot going on as you are not only dealing with PD issues within your family but you are also dealing with cultural and religious issues.  However you have to be true to yourself, you may find down the track you can incorporate parts of your culture that you do enjoy however that should be of your choosing and what works for you.

You are not abandoning your family, you are protecting your new family.  You can still have your FOO in your life at a distance if that works for you.  You may find it difficult to have a relationship with your siblings at the moment if they continue to act as FM's.  Spend some time thinking about the sort of life you want to create with your new wife and aim for that.  Don't let your mother distract you from finding peace for yourself.

[Call Me Cordelia]

HIlltop, that is all very wise!

In my opinion the cultural card can often be used as an excuse and mask for just straight up dysfunction. I saw it in my FOO, too.

Hepatica, if your dad had been different he would have made different choices across the board. One choice leads us to the next one.

I think that's true for you, SakaiSama. You chose your wife. If you stick with her your life will be very different. Congratulations and I wish you every happiness.

[SaltwareS]

What needs to be mentioned more about parents with NPD is they have little self-awareness which means they have major attachment disorders. They do not always react well when their adult child marries. Similar things pop up when they get a grandchild. I've heard of some people whose parents never forgive their adult children for having a child and cutting off all communication afterward. In other cases they get controlling and want to be super involved in the grandchild's life.

I hope that some day your siblings will see the light and rebuild a relationship with you. I finally got to the point where I force myself to "go through the motions" and see my siblings every so often, just to get the muscle memory in there.

BTW my parents are atheist, but they have NPD and pushed me to spend recklessly on things like vacations so they could tell their friends their adult child that "SaltwareS travelled to X locale" which makes them sound cool. In the same breath they said I was reckless with money. It's all about impression-management with NPDs. They are crazily illogical people.

As far as forgiveness, I'm constantly tabling it, setting it aside to figure out later. Because forgiving an NPD with poor self-awareness and poor long-term memory can be hazardous. I don't want to stew in my anger, but it's important to remember NPDs crossed a line. And we should not tolerate too much similar line-crossing by future acquaintances.

[Maxtrem]

It is surely only a question of image. Your NM has to ask herself what people will think and that is a threat to her ego. And any threat to the fragile ego of a narc ends up in narc rage. My uBPD/Nm always told me that it would be better if I didn't have a black girlfriend or she was very worried that I might be gay . In fact she's not racist or homophobic, but it was just a question of image, what people would think. One of my uncles and one of my cousins are very racist and homophobic, it worried my mother a lot about what they might say. Yet they are deplorable people and any sensible person wouldn't give any importance to the opinions of people who are drunk in the morning, but narc's think differently!

There is also obviously a lot of egocentricity on the part of your NM, not to mention a profound lack of empathy. She's putting your wife through what your father's family put her through. In addition, she would like you to sacrifice your happiness for her ego, which is a sign of a deep lack of empathy. It also says a lot about the way she considers you; not a human being in its own right, but an object to be manipulated as she pleases!

Moreover, ethnic origin is only one way to denigrate a spouse that a narc doesn't want for his children. For example, my uncle narc did everything he could to get my cousin and her boyfriend to separate. It wasn't a question of ethnicity, but of the fact that he was uneducated and had no ambition (although he's nice and he works, he's not a bad person). It was bad for him that his daughter was with a man like that, yet my cousin doesn't work, hasn't been to school for long and has no ambition either, she won't find a better man, but in my uncle's head it's a threat to his ego.

And as for the religious factor, the narcs can cling to it to justify their abuses. In my country, until the 1960s, religion was very strong and my great-grandfather used it to make his family go through hell and justify all his odious acts. He was a sociopath and there must be a reserved place in hell for him!

And I would like to congratulate you for choosing your wife and not your foo you have the right to happiness!