When you went NC, did you go quietly or was there a final confrontation?

[Cat of the Canals]

I think we're on the cusp of going NC with my husband's unBPD mother. He's asked my opinion on whether I think it's smarter to do it quietly (subtly pulling back over the next few months by not calling, responding to texts, etc.) or whether he should tell her what's happening. I never tell my own unBPD mother anything, so if it were me, I'd probably go the quiet route, but my husband has always been more willing to try to lay it out for her (not that it's ever done much good).

How did you do it? And is there anything you'd change about going NC, in hindsight?

[Thru the Rain]

We've been NC with my uNFIL for around 10 years. And DH had been considering NC for at least 10 years before that point. I had always supported DH in his decision either way - either continuing a relationship or going NC.

There was a "final straw" moment for DH that involved a relatively small disagreement. But it was the last snowflake that started the avalanche. It was at our house, and DH told his uNF that he didn't want to continue having a relationship - get out and don't contact me.

The next day in response, his uNF came over with a box of items of our's that had ended up at his house and dumped the box on our drive way. It seriously felt like a bad breakup with a gf or bf. Zero attempt at reconciliation, or "hey things have cooled down, can we talk". Just rage and silent treatment for many years.

In recent years we get angry non-apology letters around Christmas, wanting alternately to rug-sweep or claiming to have tried and tried to reconcile. Umm - nope, don't recall ANY efforts to reconcile - just "get back in line" demands.

WHAT I WISH WE'D DONE DIFFERENTLY

We knew nothing about personality disorders or how to cope. I wish Out of the FOG existed then and/or that I knew about it.

We thought there were only two options: Continue to stay in an abusive relationship OR cut FIL out of our lives entirely. Given that choice, we went NC.

But if we had tools like we've learned here like Medium Chill, Gray Rock, Your Stuff/My Stuff, etc., I think we might have successfully moved to a low contact relationship. Or maybe not - no way to know for sure.

The one other thing that really stands out for me is the contrast of my relationship with my parents vs. DH's relationship with his uNF. In my late teens and early 20's I really clearly separated from my parents. It wasn't always pretty, and I'm not proud of some of the things I did and said, but as I emerged as a differentiated adult my parents stepped up and adjusted to our revised relationship. They still loved me, and accepted that I was no longer a child. We entered into an adult to adult relationship. And that includes my M who I suspect has a PD as well.

DH's uNF never made that transition. DH moved out of his F's home, joined the military, got married, then got a post-military job and has been 100% independent of his uNF since about 19 years old (he's currently in his mid-50's, went NC in his mid-40s). His uNF on the other hand continued to treat DH like a child, and without going into the details, treated DH with outrageous disrespect and contempt.

In my opinion, my FIL has the exact relationship he earned with his son. When he had 19 years to build the foundation for a life-long relationship, my FIL chose another path.

[Cat of the Canals]

Thank you for sharing, Thru the Rain. Your post highlighted a lot of what's been on my mind, and what my husband has been grappling with. The more angry he is, the more he's determined to go full NC. In moments of calm, he's more comfortable with the idea of doing a period of NC for the next few months and then perhaps testing out some version of very LC.

A few years ago, we moved 1300 miles away (in part to get away from our FOOs). We were solidly LC, very comfortably so, really. But there was an ongoing family crisis the last few months, followed by the death of his brother, and dealing with all of that has pulled him out of LC and into way more involvement than he's comfortable with. Now his mother is in full-blown narc mode. So I think the urge to go full NC is partly a grief response and partly a rubberband effect of being pulling back into her nonsense.

[Call Me Cordelia]

For me there was a final confrontation that I didn't intend on being the permanent end of our relationship. I asked for space after one incident in a long string of them in which my parents showed how little they actually cared for me and my family. (I was in terrible health after having post-baby complications. They announced they weren't going to come for Christmas because the meal I'd served them the year before wasn't good enough.)

My mother tried to gaslight me about it, and I just said I needed a timeout while I took care of myself. Bye, love you. Then the harassment began. It got so extreme and possibly dangerous to my kids I had to send an official cease and desist letter. And that was that. Done until my kids are all grown, for their own safety, which would mean until my parents are in their 80s, at which point I can't imagine wanting to get back in touch. So I guess you could call the cease and desist the final confrontation.

It may not have got to that point if I had just let them continue to devalue me and medium chilled them and dropped off contact gradually, I don't know. Like Thru the Rain I wasn't thinking long term, I just needed space now and I communicated that honestly. It never occurred to me to do otherwise. If I had had the insight you do I wouldn't have been so blindsided by the ensuing storm. Their reaction did clarify things for me, and I suppose it was a blessing that all the crazy came out so clearly that I wasn't left wondering (too much) if I were the one in the wrong.

I do know that calling out PDs on bad behavior, even just a single and relatively minor incidence, is a declaration of war to those like my parents and it sounds likely your MiL too. I guess your answer about whether to confront or not depends on your goal. Some people believe it more honorable to speak the truth. Some people just want it over with what they perceive to be the least amount of pain to themselves. Some people successfully do the slow fade, and then move without leaving a forwarding address. Some just go dark.

I think that it might be wise to not choose a definite plan right now, and not to continue to challenge her actions directly. From your other posts it looks like your DH has been doing that some, like calling her out on going against your BIL's wishes for not having a funeral for example. As rightly hurt as he is, showing that to his mother is giving her fuel to continue to abuse and manipulate and gain supply from his emotions and caring. "Oh, Mr. Cat doesn't understand I'm grieving!!! I just need to see my son's face, surely it's cruel to deny that to a mother." Or whatever. You know the drill. You just don't need to indulge or engage that. I guess that would be considered grey rock. I liked what he said to FMs about needing different things than his mother. Just take care of yourselves, and bullocks to MiL. She'll come around hoovering again when the funeral supply dries up. You can deal with it then. Or not. You are clearly coming from a place of self-preservation and sincerity. It's okay to say, "enough."  I think whatever you decide is fine. It's terrible to face this no matter which way you decide to handle it, but I applaud you for facing your situation with honesty and care.

[Call Me Cordelia]

You posted while I was writing, and in response to that, yes, certainly no need to decide now! It may be a grief response, and it may be the right thing for good, but there's really no way to determine that at the moment. It's hard for things to be undecided for me, but I've learned that being emotionally triggered is not the right time to respond and make any kind of important decision.

[Cat of the Canals]

Thanks, Cordelia.

I do know that calling out PDs on bad behavior, even just a single and relatively minor incidence, is a declaration of war to those like my parents and it sounds likely your MiL too.

This is precisely one of my fears. We talked about it some more, and I think he's settling on the side of avoiding a confrontation if possible.

But when it comes down to it, I don't know if we can avoid it. She's got her heart set on a spring memorial service. He's already told her he won't go, but she didn't hear that, of course. We're quietly limiting contact in the meantime, but I think the moment she finally realizes we aren't coming is going to be a 'declaration of war' all on its own.

It's funny. Once we moved, we started saying, "We probably didn't need to move halfway across the country just to get away from our parents..." We didn't regret the move at all, but we wondered if we'd overreacted a little. But I can tell you that the 1300 mile barrier is very comforting right now.

[JustKat]

Like Cordelia, I also had a final confrontation that I didn't intend on being the end. It just happened, very spontaneously.

I had thought about NC, wanted to go NC, but never really planned on doing it as I knew I'd lose my entire family in the process. Then I had a final straw moment. I was out of work and had a great job lead that my Nmother managed to sabotage. I finally lost it and confronted her about it over the phone. She had never been called out on her bad behavior before and went infantile, started screaming and crying and throwing a tantrum. Then she set the phone down and started calling for my father to come and help her because I was being mean to her. I reached my breaking point and hung up. I never talked to her again after that. She died five years ago, and I remained NC while she was sick. Done and over.

I'm not sure if there's anything I would have done differently. I think if I had tried to plan it I would have chickened out and made excuses for not going through with it. It was best to just rip the bandaid off and end it like that.

I do wish I had been in this forum when it happened. At the time I was in a different forum that had minimal participation, so I had very few people to talk to. It definitely would have been easier to deal with if I could have come here, but I did have a therapist who understood. Having someone to talk to, someone who really gets it, makes all the difference in the world.

[Cat of the Canals]

Thank you so much for sharing, Kathy. It's really interesting to hear so many of you say that there was a final confrontation but that it wasn't intentional. I guess it shows how consistently PDs respond poorly to boundaries.

[JustKat]

Thank you so much for sharing, Kathy. It's really interesting to hear so many of you say that there was a final confrontation but that it wasn't intentional. I guess it shows how consistently PDs respond poorly to boundaries.

I think we all have our breaking point. There's only so much we can take from these people, and the older we get the more it beats us down. I was 45 when I reached my final straw moment so I had been through a lot. I honestly wish I had walked away sooner, but I never would have had the courage to plan it and actually carry it out. I had to be pushed, so I'm glad she finally took it too far and forced my hand.

[Jolie40]

went NC last summer & stopped sending emails, stopped visits, and stopped calling

made decision after a chaotic year with FOO & PD parent that was affecting my sleep/health

I'm not a confrontational person so going quietly was best
no explanation would be adequate & everything would be denied so just "disappearing"  from their lives made the most sense

[blues_cruise]

I slipped away quietly after another round of silent treatment from my father and a further refusal to respect boundaries. I had nothing left in me anymore and was so fed up. I just wanted to finally have some peace and space to work on myself and my life without my own father being manipulative and cruel constantly.

I didn't answer phone calls or messages and stopped sending Christmas cards. 5 years later I do sometimes feel guilt about the way I did it but realistically I know that a letter or attempt at an explanation would have fanned the flames and provoked him. In hindsight a letter telling him I needed some distance from him might have been the kindest way forward, but then I'm saying this after years of reflection, grieving and spiritual inner work which I believe I wouldn't have otherwise experienced had I kept the door open wider. He didn't/doesn't have any of the emotional intelligence required to understand my reasons either, so there's always seemed little point in attempting it other than to assuage my own guilt. I don't think I could have even put it into words back then either, all I knew was I was at breaking point and couldn't cope with him anymore.

There's a temptation to "do the right thing" the way you would want to with a mentally stable person who possesses self awareness and an appreciation of moral code, but some personality disorders can make someone likely to be incapable of this and very emotionally immature and reactive. There is a very fragile ego in place which they must protect at all costs and if they perceive you to injure it in any way or stray from the narrative that they've convinced themselves to believe is real they will reflexively bite back.

[Cat of the Canals]

Thanks, Jolie40 and blues_cruise. You are exactly right that any attempts at explanation would be pointless. For my husband, especially. He has always been more honest with his mother about how he feels compared to me and my mother, but it's never really done him any good (other than feeling like he's spoken his piece, I suppose). She tends to JADE whenever he tries to explain where he's coming from.

[MarlenaEve]

Really great question.

I have attempted my first NC by just going silent or ghosting my FOO. Why? Because, knowing my controlling NM, there was no way she would ever understand a text saying, 'Hey, mom, I'd need a break from our relationship to focus on myself. It's not about you, I just need some space and peace of mind.' If I sent that text, she'd probably become more abusive than ever because, knowing her, she'd take everything I say as a reflection about her. Actually, every word I say or information I communicate to her is re-directed towards her own self to mean something good or bad (mostly bad) about her character. So, no, I couldn't explain why I wanted a breakup from her/the family.

My second NC (which will be this year) will resemble my first one. Also, the more information you give to PD parents/parents-in-law, the higher the chances are for that info to be used against you during the smear campaign period (that always happens in NC-sometimes it happens while you're limited contact, there's no rule lol).

I hope it helps. And thank u for asking this. I think in general, it depends on everyone's PD parent and situation.

[MarlenaEve]

Like Cordelia, I also had a final confrontation that I didn't intend on being the end. It just happened, very spontaneously.

I had thought about NC, wanted to go NC, but never really planned on doing it as I knew I'd lose my entire family in the process. Then I had a final straw moment. I was out of work and had a great job lead that my Nmother managed to sabotage. I finally lost it and confronted her about it over the phone. She had never been called out on her bad behavior before and went infantile, started screaming and crying and throwing a tantrum. Then she set the phone down and started calling for my father to come and help her because I was being mean to her. I reached my breaking point and hung up. I never talked to her again after that. She died five years ago, and I remained NC while she was sick. Done and over.

I'm not sure if there's anything I would have done differently. I think if I had tried to plan it I would have chickened out and made excuses for not going through with it. It was best to just rip the bandaid off and end it like that.

I do wish I had been in this forum when it happened. At the time I was in a different forum that had minimal participation, so I had very few people to talk to. It definitely would have been easier to deal with if I could have come here, but I did have a therapist who understood. Having someone to talk to, someone who really gets it, makes all the difference in the world.

@JustKathy your post is really inspiring! I agree with how you've managed to go NC. So sorry that your job lead was sabotaged. Can I ask you, how did it feel to you to not resume Contact after finding out your mother is dying? Did you feel guilt about it? Did you work with your therapist about these nasty emotions? I'd like to follow in your footsteps but, of course, guilt is still lurking into my subconscious mind. I guess it's normal but still...

[MarlenaEve]

went NC last summer & stopped sending emails, stopped visits, and stopped calling

made decision after a chaotic year with FOO & PD parent that was affecting my sleep/health

I'm not a confrontational person so going quietly was best
no explanation would be adequate & everything would be denied so just "disappearing"  from their lives made the most sense

I love this, thanks for sharing. This is how I plan to go NC as well. An explanation or a text (worse, a letter) would set me up for hurt later on. I cannot reason with a PD mother, she truly feels, thinks and acts like a child. How would she understand separation? A child is not able to separate itself emotionally from their own environment no? my mom's the same. Everything about the people in her own family is about her, her life, her needs, wants and frustrations.

[moglow]

Cat, I have access to and have used all the tools you mentioned, for myself and my peace of mind. My mother is oblivious and doesn't hear anything outside her own mind. She shuts it down, hears just enough to store up ammo for the next round and unloads on you whenever convenient for her. Any redirection, attempt to draw her out and understand what she's thinking on any level, and she shuts it down. The sense of entitlement because "she's the mother" is mind boggling - she truly thinks she owns us body and soul, that we're intertwined in some way.

I honestly believe that if DH mother has that/similar mindset, anything he says can and will be used against him in whatever way "works" if only in her own mind. It's a double edged sword - Telling her "why" feeds that ammunition bank, she has his words to throw at him later. Say nothing and just step away, he's a villain for abandoning her. All the history, the many times he's tried to talk to, reason with and explain to her will disappear.

His uNF on the other hand continued to treat DH like a child, and without going into the details, treated DH with outrageous disrespect and contempt.

In my opinion, my FIL has the exact relationship he earned with his son. When he had 19 years to build the foundation for a life-long relationship, my FIL chose another path.

My heart hurts for him, for your family - and at the same time, I envy that freedom. I'm 59 and my mother spend my entire life undermining and destroying any foundation we might have had. Every attempt to rebuild, she dredged up the same old ancient grievances that have nothing to do with me, and pounded away at them regardless of what I said.

***
But yes, there was a final confrontation with my mother, very recently. I've snapped several times in the past, knew I had to get away from her and the damage she causes, knew i really do deserve better in spite of her words to the contrary. I've stepped back and stepped further back over the past several years, but somehow always stepped back into it with her. Now? I don't see it happening again.

I asked her very bluntly and specifically to not call, text or contact me in any way from now on. I threw her own words back at her, told her that she raised us with "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." It wasn't said in anger or any real emotion other than sadness and resignation that this really is where we are, that there's no resolution to be found with her. She has no idea where I live, so her showing up on my doorstep isn't likely to happen - plus honestly, it doesn't matter that much to her. If she were to do something like that, it would be for effect only. I think mother will do as she has many times in the past, assume she can just step back in after things have calmed down [for her].

It's not a fun place to be, but I can tell your DH, it's peaceful. SO peaceful.

[Cat of the Canals]

I cannot reason with a PD mother, she truly feels, thinks and acts like a child. How would she understand separation? A child is not able to separate itself emotionally from their own environment no? my mom's the same. Everything about the people in her own family is about her, her life, her needs, wants and frustrations.

This is a great point and something I've been trying to keep in mind more lately. They aren't just unwilling to understand. They are incapable.

I honestly believe that if DH mother has that/similar mindset, anything he says can and will be used against him in whatever way "works" if only in her own mind. I

I have been coming back to this concept more and more. He's started a lot of sentences with, "Maybe if I said..." And I've gotten into the habit of reminding him of all the times he's tried to explain boundaries/etc. and how easily she is able to ignore or reinterpret things to fit her own wants or twist his words so she can get defensive. And he's a writer, so it's not like he's bad at forming these ideas into words! She just can't hear it.

[My New Life]

There was no confrontation with my N/BP mother.  Anything I said, could and would be used against me.  And she is a pro at turning things around, making me question my interpretation of events, telling me I am too emotional, etc.  I had gone no contact ten years earlier, for a short time.  During that time, I received horrific letters, blaming for destroying my entire family; emails calling me a selfish bitch for causing her extreme emotional pain; my father was used as a flying monkey to bring hurtful information; hateful phone messages were left for me weekly.  It was awful.  I learned my lesson.
When I went no contact this time, I blocked her by phone, email, social media, and told all family members they were free to maintain a relationship with her but could not communicate any information from her to me, in any form. 
I wish you the best, in whatever you decide.

[Cat of the Canals]

Thank you, My New Life. He had a very intense phone call with her last week and as a result is now NC. He's been talking about it like it's temporary, but she has been not-so-subtly trying to engage in games via text, and I think every time that happens he adds a few more days to the NC. Half the time he says he can't really imagine having any relationship with her at all after the last phone call, and the other half he talks about when she will inevitably come visit us. 

I'm trying to be patient and stay in a position of support even though I would LOVE to be done with her for good, for his sake more than mine.

[MarlenaEve]

@Cat of the Canals so he did go NC? that's great! I mean, this decision is so big but..in the end, his life is going to improve massively. He'll see.